Arguing

[St_Francis]

Hey guys,
My Protestant friend has been telling me that Mystics of the church are false. The strangest part is that he claims that the false Mystics of the Catholic Church have been infiltrating society to bring in “the new age”. I looked some stuff up and something on a website called “christiananswers.net” has said pretty much the same thing. It got me a bit nervous because I am not strong in my faith and it was saying the the church was pagan and stuff like that. How can I refute him? And How can I know that this stuff is not true?

I suggest that you do not have enough knowledge to counteract your “friend”'s arguments, so just ask him to stop or stay away from him for a while.

Make a commitment to your faith. I returned to the Church over 20 years ago and am still learning!!! But I see that everything I have learned so far has hung together, and every question I have asked has an answer, so I trust the Church as Christ’s representative.

Faith is a virtue given to us by God. So, it’s a virtue and a gift. You know who wants to take that gift away from you, to keep you from growing in virtue? The enemy! And you can find your enemy in a part of you, like any desires you may have for being spiritually lazy or even sinning. You can find your enemy in people around you, who may want you to stay the same or even to join them in a place that is wrong for you. And the enemy can be found in the devil, who wants to persuade you away from God.

Every time you feel doubts, treat it like a temptation and pray for help! Ask God to increase your faith! Keep doing this whenever you are tempted to let go of the gift of faith God gave you.

Are you praying regularly? In my morning prayer,I thank God for having saved me by His grace. Part of the grace is the gift of faith! Think about that when you pray your morning prayers Also, pray the prayer called An Act of Faith (and the others too are good). Thank Him and ask Him throughout the day for Him to increase your faith.

 

[Potato1237]

Isn’t it great to have discussions with rational protestants? Ones who dont make ridiculous, unsubstantiated claims and think the Church is evil?

Haha you are so right on that! I hate to say it but it’s almost strange because you don’t often get that reasonableness from our Protestant brothers and sisters. I’d say that we tend to lump Protestants in all together, but I think the ones perpetrating these claims are generally the fundamentalists.

 

[Potato1237]

I suggest that you do not have enough knowledge to counteract your “friend”'s arguments, so just ask him to stop or stay away from him for a while.

Make a commitment to your faith. I returned to the Church over 20 years ago and am still learning!!! But I see that everything I have learned so far has hung together, and every question I have asked has an answer, so I trust the Church as Christ’s representative.

Faith is a virtue given to us by God. So, it’s a virtue and a gift. You know who wants to take that gift away from you, to keep you from growing in virtue? The enemy! And you can find your enemy in a part of you, like any desires you may have for being spiritually lazy or even sinning. You can find your enemy in people around you, who may want you to stay the same or even to join them in a place that is wrong for you. And the enemy can be found in the devil, who wants to persuade you away from God.

Every time you feel doubts, treat it like a temptation and pray for help! Ask God to increase your faith! Keep doing this whenever you are tempted to let go of the gift of faith God gave you.

Are you praying regularly? In my morning prayer,I thank God for having saved me by His grace. Part of the grace is the gift of faith! Think about that when you pray your morning prayers Also, pray the prayer called An Act of Faith (and the others too are good). Thank Him and ask Him throughout the day for Him to increase your faith.

Thank you, there is very much to learn about our faith.

 

[Potato1237]

Can someone explain to me what the new age is? And why in the world would Mystics be accused with trying to infiltrate society to bring it?

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Haha you are so right on that! I hate to say it but it’s almost strange because you don’t often get that reasonableness from our Protestant brothers and sisters. I’d say that we tend to lump Protestants in all together, but I think the ones perpetrating these claims are generally the fundamentalists.

They mean well and they appear to be so sincere and convincing…so it’s easy to fall into that camp if you aren’t properly prepared to deal with them with sound argumentation delivered with humility. That will get their attention…

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Can someone explain to me what the new age is? And why in the world would Mystics be accused with trying to infiltrate society to bring it?

It’s difficult to say because there are so many different strains. Whether we are talking the Oprah Winfrey cult or the Free Masons, the one thing they seem to have in common is extreme pacifism of other faiths and no real absolute truths. All roads lead to heaven in their theology.

Mysticism is fine so long as it’s conformity with the absolute Truth of Jesus and his Church. But if you are staring into a crystal and receiving a nessage contrary to what the Church teaches, you aren’t receiving it from God. That sort of new age mysticism is detrimental to the soul.

 

[Darryl_B]

Hey guys,
My Protestant friend has been telling me that Mystics of the church are false. The strangest part is that he claims that the false Mystics of the Catholic Church have been infiltrating society to bring in “the new age”. I looked some stuff up and something on a website called “christiananswers.net” has said pretty much the same thing. It got me a bit nervous because I am not strong in my faith and it was saying the the church was pagan and stuff like that. How can I refute him? And How can I know that this stuff is not true?

Your protestant friend is mixing conspiracy theories. Delineate the individual conspiracies into their respective categories. They each need to stand and fall on their own merits, but mixing them into a great big yarn of entanglement is simply trying to confuse you.

 

[Jerusha]

Can someone explain to me what the new age is? And why in the world would Mystics be accused with trying to infiltrate society to bring it?

Part of the problem is vocabulary. Mysticism in Catholicism has to do with private revelation within the doctrines of the church. The invasive “mystics” are gnostics, who participate in unbridled metaphysical speculation. Read the New Testament to find how much the Early Church struggled with them, while seeking the Truth. What seems to be knowledge is often lies. There is much that is unknown, there are many mysteries, which we will only know when we see God.

 

[Potato1237]

Part of the problem is vocabulary. Mysticism in Catholicism has to do with private revelation within the doctrines of the church. The invasive “mystics” are gnostics, who participate in unbridled metaphysical speculation. Read the New Testament to find how much the Early Church struggled with them, while seeking the Truth. What seems to be knowledge is often lies. There is much that is unknown, there are many mysteries, which we will only know when we see God.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Church_Militant]

Y’know, if you quit hanging out with the “friends” just seem to want to yank your chain about your Catholic faith and stuck with the friends from your parish, most all of this would go away.

I mean I am glad you always come in here to check the facts, but I am concerned about your shaky faith. You’re kinda like a baby in a bar fight…you’re gonna get hurt Brother.

These might help you out…
THE PAGANIZATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER CONSTANTINE
Is Catholicism Pagan?
Are Catholic holidays pagan?

and here’s some stuff that can help prepare you for those unavoidable ones…

• Scriptural Apologetics
• “What’s Your Authority?”
• How to Talk with Fundamentalists
• The Anti-Catholic Bible
• Catholic “Inventions”
• More Catholic “Inventions”
• Fundamentalist or Catholic?
• Anti-Catholic Whoppers
• The Inquisition

 

[XndrK]

Thanks guys. And when I say I have asked for guidance I meant asking for guidance from God. Not you guys. You all have been wonderful to me and I can’t thank you enough. I sometimes wish the Lord was as helpful.

What’s to say he isn’t helping through us?

Also, conveniently, you’re on the Catholic Answers forum, and Catholic Answers was founded to dispel the problems you’re running up against. Go on Catholic Answers main and put whatever buzzword’s bugging you today in the search bar up top, then read whatever tract comes up. You should be fine.

Also, get a copy of Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating. Covers all the big ones. (CA Press publishes it. They’d better pay me for mentioning it. )

 

[XndrK]

Can someone explain to me what the new age is? And why in the world would Mystics be accused with trying to infiltrate society to bring it?

I am no expert on the subject, but it’s worth a shot. Other people, please correct me if I’m wrong.

The New Age is a movement that sprung from the more radical sections of the hippie movement of the 1960s (I think) that focuses on a strange combination of Eastern mysticism, Gnosticism, and nature worship. It is very focused on the self, self-empowerment, and personal mystical experiences, but at the cost of a coherent ideology and meaning to life.

If I had to guess, a lot of people are freaked out because Catholicism does believe in mystical experiences, as does New Age. The difference, of course, is that in New Age, the mystical experiences point toward an empowerment of the self, while in Catholicism, mystical experiences point toward a thing larger than the self and therefore a weakening of the self in the grand scheme of things.

But AAAAAAA MYSTICISM AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

 

[Potato1237]

I am no expert on the subject, but it’s worth a shot. Other people, please correct me if I’m wrong.

The New Age is a movement that sprung from the more radical sections of the hippie movement of the 1960s (I think) that focuses on a strange combination of Eastern mysticism, Gnosticism, and nature worship. It is very focused on the self, self-empowerment, and personal mystical experiences, but at the cost of a coherent ideology and meaning to life.

If I had to guess, a lot of people are freaked out because Catholicism does believe in mystical experiences, as does New Age. The difference, of course, is that in New Age, the mystical experiences point toward an empowerment of the self, while in Catholicism, mystical experiences point toward a thing larger than the self and therefore a weakening of the self in the grand scheme of things.

But AAAAAAA MYSTICISM AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Ah! I see now. So it seems to align with the liberal agenda of today. The more radical end of course.

 

[Peter_J]

Hey guys,
My Protestant friend has been telling me that Mystics of the church are false. The strangest part is that he claims that the false Mystics of the Catholic Church have been infiltrating society to bring in “the new age”. I looked some stuff up and something on a website called “christiananswers.net” has said pretty much the same thing. It got me a bit nervous because I am not strong in my faith and it was saying the the church was pagan and stuff like that. How can I refute him? And How can I know that this stuff is not true?

Would it help if I made a website that said that Protestant mystics are false and infiltrate society, and that Protestants are pagan?

 

[Jerusha]

Y’know, if you quit hanging out with the “friends” just seem to want to yank your chain about your Catholic faith and stuck with the friends from your parish, most all of this would go away.

I mean I am glad you always come in here to check the facts, but I am concerned about your shaky faith. You’re kinda like a baby in a bar fight…you’re gonna get hurt Brother.

I agree. P’tata, you don’t need friends like this. You need a better foundation in your faith before you begin to associate with people like that. Such “friends” cultivate friendship for only one purpose; to add feathers to their caps by converting Catholics.

 

[Peter_J]

Such “friends” cultivate friendship for only one purpose; to add feathers to their caps by converting Catholics.

Don’t tell them that. They might take it as a compliment.

 

[Potato1237]

Would it help if I made a website that said that Protestant mystics are false and infiltrate society, and that Protestants are pagan?

Yes. That would help quite a bit. I guess I’m too influenced by the Internet.

 

[Peter_J]

 

[benjohnson]

Yes. That would help quite a bit. I guess I’m too influenced by the Internet.

I’m not joking when I say this: The devil is fond of moving Christians away from God, and the Internet has been a great tool for that.

 

[Contarini]

Hey guys,
My Protestant friend has been telling me that Mystics of the church are false. The strangest part is that he claims that the false Mystics of the Catholic Church have been infiltrating society to bring in “the new age”. I looked some stuff up and something on a website called “christiananswers.net” has said pretty much the same thing. It got me a bit nervous because I am not strong in my faith and it was saying the the church was pagan and stuff like that. How can I refute him? And How can I know that this stuff is not true?

Why does this get you nervous?

Didn’t you know, already, that lots of people disagree with Catholicism?

Why would mere assertions shake your faith? It’s the job of the person making the assertion to provide evidence. Until then, go on believing what you believe already.

Proving a negative is almost impossible.

These guys start from the assumption that all mysticism is bad and is part of a New Age conspiracy. So they interpret everything in that light.

I start from the assumption that any religion lacking mysticism can be dismissed out of hand. It would be far more reasonable to be an atheist than to belong to such a religion.

Edwin