Arguing

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You are very right. If only our fundamentalist friends could see the connection.
 
Potato1237 said:
You are very right. If only our fundamentalist friends could see the connection.
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Good luck with that! 😊 I’ve been aware of the Right-Left divisions in this country for a long time, but 2016 has convinced me that they come with a huge helping of crazy on the side.
 
I guess my point is guys, that I’m so afraid that Catholicism is wrong still. The Bible says in the LATTER times. People will forbid to Marry and eat meat. Does it not also say that the Pharisees were very religious and ritualistic, like Catholics are today? I just don’t know anymore. I feel like I’m really starting to lose faith.
Doesn’t Jeremiah say something about worshipping a queen of heaven?

I know this sounds childish my friends, but I won’t lie; I’m scared.
 
Potato1237 said:
I guess my point is guys, that I’m so afraid that Catholicism is wrong still. The Bible says in the LATTER times. People will forbid to Marry and eat meat. Does it not also say that the Pharisees were very religious and ritualistic, like Catholics are today? I just don’t know anymore. I feel like I’m really starting to lose faith.
Doesn’t Jeremiah say something about worshipping a queen of heaven?

I know this sounds childish my friends, but I won’t lie; I’m scared.
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Well let me ask you something: Do you believe that Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists … and others who are wrong in their beliefs go to Hell?
 
Lenten_ashes said:
Could also be a symbolic reference to Israel . But consider the fact that no where in scripture is Israel referred to as a woman giving birth to Messiah.

But we do see Mary being foretold in Gen 3:15 and Isaiah 7:14 as the one giving birth to Messiah as in Rev 12

Speaking of Gen 3:15, compare that with Rev 12…you see Mary in both cases as a team member for Jesus and arch enemy of Satan.
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Basic Catholic Theology. scripture does not have to be either /or but both/and. Woman clothed with the sun is Mary and Israel. One does not preclude the other. Some people think that there is only correct way of viewing verses. First never take a verse singularly.it belongs in context. Then the verse in context makes the whole passage clearer and the possibility of seeing layers of meaning are much more evident. So scripture is onion that has depth and multiplicities of meaning.
 
Peter_J said:
Well let me ask you something: Do you believe that Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists … and others who are wrong in their beliefs go to Hell?
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Depends, catholic doctrine teaches invincible ignorance.

Things like the saints being intersessors, veneration of Mary, and infant baptism came way after Christ and the church fathers did they not? Could these be considered heretical and wrong?
 
Potato1237 said:
I guess my point is guys, that I’m so afraid that Catholicism is wrong still. The Bible says in the LATTER times. People will forbid to Marry and eat meat. Does it not also say that the Pharisees were very religious and ritualistic, like Catholics are today? I just don’t know anymore. I feel like I’m really starting to lose faith.
Doesn’t Jeremiah say something about worshipping a queen of heaven?

I know this sounds childish my friends, but I won’t lie; I’m scared.
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Lay persons are able to marry.
Research Catholic sources for what the Church really teaches. You would do well to spend some time at Church Militant’s blog.
Could you find the verse(s) please?
 
Potato1237 said:
I guess my point is guys, that I’m so afraid that Catholicism is wrong still. The Bible says in the LATTER times. People will forbid to Marry and eat meat. Does it not also say that the Pharisees were very religious and ritualistic, like Catholics are today? I just don’t know anymore. I feel like I’m really starting to lose faith.
Doesn’t Jeremiah say something about worshipping a queen of heaven?

I know this sounds childish my friends, but I won’t lie; I’m scared.
Click to expand...
Okay queen of heaven bugaboo. That’s always been a standard slur. Astarte, Isis ,Ianna, very common title for pagan goddesses.the sky is often portrayed as a deity. Similarities do not equal the same. The Jews borrowed the shape of the temple it’s altars , the sacrifices on those avatars THE Passover Seder and a heck of a lot more.
Time place, culture all go into defining how another culture perceive another. Queen of Heaven meant a mother goddess often seen attached to sexuality, fertility and war. Do you see any comparison between the queen mother. , queen of heaven and these characters. We use terms familiar to ourselves without taking on the meaning of the past
Jeremiah railed against Astarte asherah who were pet deities to the Hebrews , especially women who baked raisin cakes in her honor. She was a great power all to herself. She was very potent goddess. On the other hand you have Mary , who without her caveat , there would have been no Incarnation.no incarnation no salvation. She had the power of free will and with that freewill she allowed the incarnation to happen. That is power but in her humility to God and yes, humanity, she helped us gain eternity. outside of freewill ( which is God given) she can do nothing without her Son. Her Son honored her, protected her and made her a participant in asalvation history. She wants nothing for herself and I often n think how angry the Lord must be with people who treat her as an unimportant incubator . She I seen as queen of heaven by her children who she longs to bring closer tofrom 1831 to 1836, wherein he never mentioned that the church claimed angelic priesthood restoration. [18] After leaving the church, McLellin recorded: “I joined the church in 1831. For years I never heard of John the Baptist ordaining Joseph and Oliver. I heard not of James, Peter, and John doing so.” [19] He elaborated in 1870: “I heard Joseph tell his experience of his ordination [by Cowdery] and the organization of the church , probably , more than twenty times, to persons who, near the rise of the church, wished to know and hear about it. I never heard of Moroni, John, or Peter, James and John.” [20] Two years later he repeated: “But as to the story of John, the her Son. Her title is not like pagans give to show her power in the earthly domain . Her power lies In her love, her care for her children and devotion to her Son. Not as goddesses in their self aggrandizing , selfish materialism and demand
.
 
Potato1237 said:
Depends, catholic doctrine teaches invincible ignorance.

Things like the saints being intersessors, veneration of Mary, and infant baptism came way after Christ and the church fathers did they not? Could these be considered heretical and wrong?
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Well, my point is I believe in a God of mercy and love who doesn’t cast people into Hell just for belonging to the wrong denomination.
 
Potato1237 said:
I guess my point is guys, that I’m so afraid that Catholicism is wrong still. The Bible says in the LATTER times. People will forbid to Marry and eat meat. Does it not also say that the Pharisees were very religious and ritualistic, like Catholics are today? I just don’t know anymore. I feel like I’m really starting to lose faith.
Doesn’t Jeremiah say something about worshipping a queen of heaven?

I know this sounds childish my friends, but I won’t lie; I’m scared.
Click to expand...
I’d take a break from your friends and their garbage polemic websites for a while.

Jesus did not, repeat, DID NOT condemn Judaism or all their practices. In fact, he said salvation was of the Jews (John 4:22). He also refers to the seat of Moses ( Matthew 23:2 ) which was their version of magesterium and tells people to LISTEN to them just dont follow bad examples. He also said he did not come to abolish everything but to fulfill. (Matthew 5:17 ) That means you ***should ***see some fingerprints of Judaism in our faith as we are grafted into that tree (Romans 11:17)

And we do see that as Jesus establishes a VISIBLE and authoritative church (Matt 18:17)

Ask your buddies how do they reconcile Matt 18:17 if one is a Baptist and the other a Anglican? Which church do they go to for the final decision? And which one is the pillar and foundation of Truth since they teach different stuff? (1 Tim 3:15)

So yes, some things appear questionable no matter what branch of Christianity you are a part of. But with this Church you have a 2000 year pedigree and a promise from the Lord. (Matt 16:18.) The question is do you trust him to tell the truth?
 
Thank you all for the great answers. This forum has really allowed me to make sense of my faith. As for your post Lenten ashes, I was watching a debate on YouTube at one point between two Catholics and two Protestants. One of the Protestants was an episcopalian and one was a Calvinist. A few minutes into the debate, one of the Catholics actually was able to pit the two against each other. What ensued afterwards was for nearly ten minutes, the two began arguing with each other. And not just disagreeing, no… it turned into an all out war between the two.
I guess proving your point that they would never agree on anything anyway.

The gates of hell have not prevailed as anti Catholics claim they have because of the past. If we look at this in a logical way, when Christ said the gates of hell would not prevail, it clearly implies that they would try as hard as they can.

Your brother in Christ. 🙂

Potato.
 
juliamajor said:
Okay queen of heaven bugaboo. That’s always been a standard slur. Astarte, Isis ,Ianna, very common title for pagan goddesses.the sky is often portrayed as a deity. Similarities do not equal the same. The Jews borrowed the shape of the temple it’s altars , the sacrifices on those avatars THE Passover Seder and a heck of a lot more.
Time place, culture all go into defining how another culture perceive another. Queen of Heaven meant a mother goddess often seen attached to sexuality, fertility and war. Do you see any comparison between the queen mother. , queen of heaven and these characters. We use terms familiar to ourselves without taking on the meaning of the past
Jeremiah railed against Astarte asherah who were pet deities to the Hebrews , especially women who baked raisin cakes in her honor. She was a great power all to herself. She was very potent goddess. On the other hand you have Mary , who without her caveat , there would have been no Incarnation.no incarnation no salvation. She had the power of free will and with that freewill she allowed the incarnation to happen. That is power but in her humility to God and yes, humanity, she helped us gain eternity. outside of freewill ( which is God given) she can do nothing without her Son. Her Son honored her, protected her and made her a participant in asalvation history. She wants nothing for herself and I often n think how angry the Lord must be with people who treat her as an unimportant incubator . She I seen as queen of heaven by her children who she longs to bring closer tofrom 1831 to 1836, wherein he never mentioned that the church claimed angelic priesthood restoration. [18] After leaving the church, McLellin recorded: “I joined the church in 1831. For years I never heard of John the Baptist ordaining Joseph and Oliver. I heard not of James, Peter, and John doing so.” [19] He elaborated in 1870: “I heard Joseph tell his experience of his ordination [by Cowdery] and the organization of the church , probably , more than twenty times, to persons who, near the rise of the church, wished to know and hear about it. I never heard of Moroni, John, or Peter, James and John.” [20] Two years later he repeated: “But as to the story of John, the her Son. Her title is not like pagans give to show her power in the earthly domain . Her power lies In her love, her care for her children and devotion to her Son. Not as goddesses in their self aggrandizing , selfish materialism and demand
.
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Excellent help! Thanks!
 
Peter_J said:
Well, my point is I believe in a God of mercy and love who doesn’t cast people into Hell just for belonging to the wrong denomination.
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I agree. I hope and I’m almost sure that God is a bit more broad minded than we are.
 
Potato1237 said:
Thank you all for the great answers. This forum has really allowed me to make sense of my faith. As for your post Lenten ashes, I was watching a debate on YouTube at one point between two Catholics and two Protestants. One of the Protestants was an episcopalian and one was a Calvinist. A few minutes into the debate, one of the Catholics actually was able to pit the two against each other. What ensued afterwards was for nearly ten minutes, the two began arguing with each other. And not just disagreeing, no… it turned into an all out war between the two.
I guess proving your point that they would never agree on anything anyway.

The gates of hell have not prevailed as anti Catholics claim they have because of the past. If we look at this in a logical way, when Christ said the gates of hell would not prevail, it clearly implies that they would try as hard as they can.

Your brother in Christ. 🙂

Potato.
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It’s excellent you are watching youtube debates.🙂

Here’s a good one on sola scriptura and other issues:

youtube.com/watch?v=gkKhy9HQHDg

Both sides act charitable and plead their cases. Good talking points to pickup on for your encounters with your friends.

And lastly, Satan does prevail causing people in the church to sin horribly like with the scandals, but he cant prevail when it comes to matters of faith and morals. It’s comforting to know that when the rest of the world budges to peer pressure on birth control, abortion, SS marriage and whatever else, the CC stands firm until the end of time.
 
Lenten_ashes said:
It’s excellent you are watching youtube debates.🙂

Here’s a good one on sola scriptura and other issues:

youtube.com/watch?v=gkKhy9HQHDg

Both sides act charitable and plead their cases. Good talking points to pickup on for your encounters with your friends.

And lastly, Satan does prevail causing people in the church to sin horribly like with the scandals, but he cant prevail when it comes to matters of faith and morals. It’s comforting to know that when the rest of the world budges to peer pressure on birth control, abortion, SS marriage and whatever else, the CC stands firm until the end of time.
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Amen!
 
On last question guys. 🙂 this is about Fatima again, Mary said that SHE would take the two children. Why would it be her and not God? People who argue against Fatima say that demons can predict the future. I’m certainly not jumping to conclusions here though.

Thanks again for the help!

Potato1237
 
Potato1237 said:
On last question guys. 🙂 this is about Fatima again, Mary said that SHE would take the two children. Why would it be her and not God? People who argue against Fatima say that demons can predict the future. I’m certainly not jumping to conclusions here though.
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Good question.

I guess I’ll leave that to the experts. But if I may piggy-back, I’m also interested to learn what Protestant Non-Catholics think about Fatima.
 
Peter_J said:
Good question.

I guess I’ll leave that to the experts. But if I may piggy-back, I’m also inter. sted to learn what Protestant Non-Catholics think about Fatima.
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I have. Bern 2 Fatima twice, and visited current visitations, a natural. Minded person" won’t understand, 1 cor. 3, u have to be prophetic. 2 understand
 
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