It is a gift to the righteous. Our bodies have been changed now that the life energy is used up. That can be reversed. Sin did it all. The fathers in the OT did it. and lived “900 and died” Died! Hah. They usually faked deaths and lived more like 10,000 years and disappeared. But I don’t want to get into that because you would see and hear things and judge them before you knew what they were. Jesus did many things not mentioned in the books.No one has to get sick, age, and die? Where may I obtain this knowledge you say will prevent me from undergoing those things?
:twocents: (keeping it brief without citing sources). . . there are billions of other people in this world who are not me. That is strange that they all exist and have their own experiences, yet none of them are shared. I don’t share their experience and they don’t share mine. They force me to consider my own life in relation to theirs. I am forced to question why or how it is that I exist as opposed to some other possible person. And what is it that distinguishes me from every other person. What is it that makes me me, and makes them them? Why do I know these experiences and not those? Why don’t i experience and know what they feel, and why don’t they know what i experience? All I can say is, “I” exist. That is at once the most personal, rational, and emotional idea.
There has to be some way to explain on the one hand the fact that I didn’t live and experience life at one time, and in a short period of time, presumably, I won’t live and exist any longer. . .
The other possibility is that consciousness is simply a natural property of the univers and human life is the product of the universe’s yearning toward self consciousness. So I am just an expression of the universe, and it is all my memories and experiences that combine to form my self. It is my brain anatomy and chemistry that distinguishes me from every other person. My anatomy is the source of my experiences and thoughts, so that is the source of me. On the other hand, our sense of self as opposed to others is just an illusion. We are all just expressions of the universe. All my life is just a momentary instance of the universe. So since consciousness is simply a property of the universe, reincarnation is possible, and even likely. We are all just an expression of a property of the universe, so it is possible that sometime after I die, I will live, experience, and know again. But since my anatomy and brain are the source of my memories, I wouldn’t remember this life. It would appear to be completely independent.
Isn’t that a little presumptive?. . . you would see and hear things and judge them before you knew what they were. . . .
The literal and typical meaning of reincarnation is a continuation of life “in the flesh” generally associated with this world, notably a cycle of births and rebirths.I don’t think reincarnationism specifies that it is just this world. I think reincarnation is a solution to the “problem of death.” I don’t think it’s the best, or a real, solution, but it has philosophical appeal.
Not specifically this planet. There are supposedly other inhabited planets in the universe, perhaps even one to which Jesus ascended and from which He will visit us in the near future to judge this planet. There are purported to be heaven planets and hell planets.The literal and typical meaning of reincarnation is a continuation of life “in the flesh” generally associated with this world, notably a cycle of births and rebirths.
**I am looking for good arguments agiants reincranation. Not biblical ones please as the person isn’t convinced by that. Are there any sound arguments drawing on philosophy? Sort of the equivalent of Pascal’s Wager maybe?
I think this “test” relies on some unsupported assumptions, and wouldn’t be conclusive. For example, having lived a past life would not necessarily guarantee full memory of it in this life. So your test wouldn’t rule out past lives, only (possibly) full memory of them, which is not a necessary consequence of a past life.**
If the metaphysics that presumes reincarnation is actually true, many other things should be possible, like clairvoyance, perfect precognition etc. Because these abilities should be high and well developed in the person who remembers his past life and has offered evidence of it socially**, get him or her to guess a deck of shuffled cards. There you will have your test.
Even if such planets harbouring reincarnated persons exist - for which there is not one of evidence - it is still necessary to explain why one life isn’t sufficient. The only reason I can think of is that they haven’t had sufficient time to develop spiritually in this world. The idea that they are being punished for their sins seems primitive because it isn’t necessary to have a body in order to suffer.Not specifically this planet. There are supposedly other inhabited planets in the universe, perhaps even one to which Jesus ascended and from which He will visit us in the near future to judge this planet. There are purported to be heaven planets and hell planets.
To reiterate my answer to your question of why isn’t one life sufficient, the obvious answer is, we die. Thus one life is not eternal. If we were immortal, then one life would be sufficient. But since we die, the question comes up, what happens to us after we die? You seem to be advocating a kind of theory that says we are no longer physical but purely spiritual. But that isn’t a human being, that would be an angel. We are not angels, we are humans. The Resurrection of the Body is Catholic Doctrine. Eternal life for a human being includes the body, because that is what a human being is, a living body.Even if such planets harbouring reincarnated persons exist - for which there is not one of evidence - it is still necessary to explain why one life isn’t sufficient. The only reason I can think of is that they haven’t had sufficient time to develop spiritually in this world. The idea that they are being punished for their sins seems primitive because it isn’t necessary to have a body in order to suffer.
What about a cancer Patient dying in their last stages and because they are in that much pain are given free access to Morphine. But as they increase the morphine to try and control the pain the Morphine actually kills them.If “you” are not in “your right mind” then “you” didn’t do it. I’m not interested, at least in this thread, of treating the Fallacy of Psychiatry. (Psychiatry in its entirety rests on a fallacy.) If you want to discuss that more, we can start a new thread.
Suicide committed with full knowledge and consent is a mortal sin, and if one succeeds, there is no possibility of repentance before death, ergo, suicide leads to hell. One cannot blanketly excuse all suicides as not sinful just because one does not understand malice. The Sin against the Holy Ghost is malice. It is not so much “believing you haven’t been forgiven” as it is rejection of contrition for sin. According to the Church it takes six forms. One of the forms is willful rejection of the known truth. So if a person knows murder is a mortal sin, and commits suicide anyway (murdering the self) then how is there forgiveness?
Issues with Reincarnation:I am looking for good arguments agiants reincranation. Not biblical ones please as the person isn’t convinced by that. Are there any sound arguments drawing on philosophy? Sort of the equivalent of Pascal’s Wager maybe?
The topic is not whether one life is sufficient but “Arguments against reincarnation”! In other words reincarnation is unnecessary if one believes in the Christian view of life after death with the same glorified body, not with a different body we had in a previous existence in this world.To reiterate my answer to your question of why isn’t one life sufficient, the obvious answer is, we die. Thus one life is not eternal. If we were immortal, then one life would be sufficient. But since we die, the question comes up, what happens to us after we die? You seem to be advocating a kind of theory that says we are no longer physical but purely spiritual. But that isn’t a human being, that would be an angel. We are not angels, we are humans. The Resurrection of the Body is Catholic Doctrine. Eternal life for a human being includes the body, because that is what a human being is, a living body.
What is the intent? It is not suicide to do something foolish and accidentally die.What about a cancer Patient dying in their last stages and because they are in that much pain are given free access to Morphine. But as they increase the morphine to try and control the pain the Morphine actually kills them.
Two impulses: the Life Impulse and the Death Impulse. To dismiss the Death Impulse as a function of demons is just to quantify all negative (anti-life) impulses as demonic. I agree that a person who commits suicide is clearly besieged by demons…demons being one’s fears, dreads, horrible visions of the future.What is the intent? It is not suicide to do something foolish and accidentally die.
And, to be perfectly clear, I hold that suicides are almost always committed by demons. It is contrary to our survival impulse, to actually kill oneself. Demonic influence can and does often override this impulse, but for a human being to consciously will and choose, with full unencumbered consent, to kill themselves, I think would be rare.
Hindu’s believe that the Monad is what reincarnates – the Monad is, also, a trinity, when incarnating: Atma-Buddhi-Manas – Spirit-Soul-Abstract Mind. The Manas is the Son, and the Son dies. The Atma (Father) and the Buddhi (Mother) suriive the Flood. When Manvantara returns, the Active Day-Cycle, Manas is the first born and is the force that drives reincarnation and Life. Manas is Life. Manas embraces the Life-Instinct Principle and is the principle of Prana, what the Hindus call the Vital Body. The Monad itself does not reincarnate, but drives the reincarnation forward through the powr of its Will. Manas is a force of electricity that animates the whole existence back to life.:twocents: (keeping it brief without citing sources)
We exist as a wholeness, a unity of spirit and soul.
In a way, we can be said to be all incarnations of Adam, each of us individual and irreplaceable expressions of human nature in a fallen state.
We exist as finite beings, centred in eternity, which it intersects time right here, right now.
With His word, God brings everything into being.
As part of the universe created by God, we do not exist as expressions of a property of the universe; rather we are persons, conceived as part of it, in His image.
We are more than our psychology and the biochemical processes that correlate to them; at our depths, it is our individual soul, created by God, our soul who exists beyond physical death, that is our truest reality.
The memory of who we are is expressed in this world as a cognitive phenomenon, linked to brain activity, but it is not limited to this world.
The above quote suggests that we are expressions of a universe ignorant of its true nature, repeatedly returning until it reaches that realization; Eastern religions indicate that what is realized is the dependent, illusory (i.e. not God) nature of the self, as it is surrendered to the one true supreme Identity. Reincarnation would then be as much an illusion as the individual self: conditions of desirous ignorance existing within the universe creating a chain of illusory selves. Nothing is being reincarnated.
As an aside, Vishnu is not referred to as one’s Father and the Buddha-nature is not personal. These do not describe God as revealed in scripture and the teachings of the Church, which also do not teach reincarnation.
“God did not make death, neither takes He delight in the destruction of the living.” — Wisdom 1:13.Two impulses: the Life Impulse and the Death Impulse. To dismiss the Death Impulse as a function of demons is just to quantify all negative (anti-life) impulses as demonic. I agree that a person who commits suicide is clearly besieged by demons…demons being one’s fears, dreads, horrible visions of the future.
Is Hopelessness a sin against God? Or is it experience as a man or woman’s being abandoned by God? Jesus counseled his followers to turn their back on the World, on life as they knew it, with its smallness and sin and corruption – some gnostics argue that the Life Impulse is the Father tempting the angels to fall and sin. For the Life-impulse is often violent, and often leads to war and killing.
What we call life-in-the-body is the Sin; and Death is the return to God. The Spiritual Life is really anti-material.
In the Book of Revelations, John writes about the gifts to the Seven Churches, ‘if they hold out’…I think this is allegorically also about the individuals spiritual challenge that comes when the individual moves into the Dark Age, when God is not seen, when Death is very close, when the Fear of Death and Diminishment and Poverty and Powerlessness beseige the human soul…If one holds out to the end, one will be saved by Jesus Christ and will be carried into a new life, resurrected into an expansive heaven.