Armageddon, the Beast, Appearance of Anti-Christ, Gog and Magog, End Times, rapture, Second Coming of Jesus, gathering of the Israel

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ryanoneil said:
Yes I noticed the difference between Lord and lord. What is Jesus saying in addition then? There is already the assumption that the Messiah will be David’s son and King. Jesus isn’t denying this but He is saying that He is more than son of David and Messiah/King.

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus questioned them, saying, "What is your opinion about the Messiah? Whose son is he?" They replied, “David’s.” He said to them, “How, then, does David, inspired by the Spirit, call him ‘lord,’ saying: ‘The Lord said to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet”’? If David calls him ‘lord,’ **how can he be his son?” **No one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare to ask him any more questions. (Mt 22:41-46)

Is Jesus refering to Himself as Son of Man/Son of God then?

Don’t you think one of the Pharisees would have answered Jesus if the answer was that simple?

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
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He is saying that the Son of David already existed when David envisioned this, which is as I say, Jesus is David’s son that was killed for David’s sin with Bathsheba.

The Jews already knew that Messiah would be called the Son of God, but that never meant that Messiah will be born a deity, only that God would adopt him as His own special son.

2 Samuel 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Christians do follow them when they support actions of Jews to reclaim Promised Land based on OT promises. You are going to have to come out and condemn land grabs as a thing of the past, not to be done anymore unless God renews the command, if you don’t want that to happen.

But as it is, Isaac had his promises, Ishmael had his, God approved both to do what they did to see them fulfilled. Maybe it is supposed to be over now, maybe not.

But the original actions to cement Judaism/Christianity for Isaac, and Islam for Ishmael, were ordained by God to keep the promises, according to each Holy Book.
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What is it with this “land grabbing” arguement?

It doesn’t matter how it looked to the world when the Israelis started to come back into the land, but God has allowed it. They are back into the land for one purpose-to turn back TOTALLY to God, to look to him and NO ONE else. This will be fulfilled when the Jesus Christ comes back to Earth.

I find it very strange that you read from the Koran and the Bible scriptures. Oil and water my friend. You can keep trying to stir them together to make them one, but eventually, it is still oil and water.
 
Lev23 said:
What is it with this “land grabbing” arguement?

It doesn’t matter how it looked to the world when the Israelis started to come back into the land, but God has allowed it. They are back into the land for one purpose-to turn back TOTALLY to God, to look to him and NO ONE else. This will be fulfilled when the Jesus Christ comes back to Earth.

I find it very strange that you read from the Koran and the Bible scriptures. Oil and water my friend. You can keep trying to stir them together to make them one, but eventually, it is still oil and water.
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Only in your mind. Of course God allowed it, and He allowed Mohammed to do what He did too for Ishmael’s promise. That’s the point.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
He is saying that the Son of David already existed when David envisioned this, which is as I say, Jesus is David’s son that was killed for David’s sin with Bathsheba.

The Jews already knew that Messiah would be called the Son of God, but that never meant that Messiah will be born a deity, only that God would adopt him as His own special son.

2 Samuel 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
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Dear FoA,

To my point of view, in the special thread I ask you to present your explanation, you have changed your position twice. You claimed that the first son of David and Betsheba was legal, then you admit that he was a mamzer. Then you changed your position again when we discussed about being reborn using Nicodemus words. You need to established a solid ground for your belief, dear brother. Otherwise, we are confused on what exactly you believe in.

Remember, Peter in Mat 16:16 saying that “You are the Messiah, the SON OF THE LIVING GOD”. Peter the uneducated fishermen knew about the Messiah as the Son of the Living God. So, it was a common belief in the Jewish community that the promissed Messiah is the Son of the Living God (I am not talking about the PromissedMessiah 1836-1905 as believed by Paarsurrey).
 
swariffin said:
Dear FoA,

To my point of view, in the special thread I ask you to present your explanation, you have changed your position twice. You claimed that the first son of David and Betsheba was legal, then you admit that he was a mamzer. Then you changed your position again when we discussed about being reborn using Nicodemus words. You need to established a solid ground for your belief, dear brother. Otherwise, we are confused on what exactly you believe in.
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I always had the same position, Jesus was conceived in shame with David and Bathsheba and raise in glory with Mary.

1 Corinthians 15:42-45 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
swariffin said:
Remember, Peter in Mat 16:16 saying that “You are the Messiah, the SON OF THE LIVING GOD”. Peter the uneducated fishermen knew about the Messiah as the Son of the Living God. So, it was a common belief in the Jewish community that the promissed Messiah is the Son of the Living God (I am not talking about the PromissedMessiah 1836-1905 as believed by Paarsurrey).
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Messiah is the Son of David, which is called the Son of God. So was Adam the Son of God too.

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
I always had the same position, Jesus was conceived in shame with David and Bathsheba and raise in glory with Mary.

1 Corinthians 15:42-45 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Messiah is the Son of David, which is called the Son of God. So was Adam the Son of God too.

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
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Dear FoA,

Before I answer you further, how many times that Jesus must be resurrected?
 
FaithofAbraham said:
He is saying that the Son of David already existed when David envisioned this, which is as I say, Jesus is David’s son that was killed for David’s sin with Bathsheba.
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Are you suggesting that Jesus was concieved by David and Bathsheba? :confused:
The Jews already knew that Messiah would be called the Son of God, but that never meant that Messiah will be born a deity, only that God would adopt him as His own special son.
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And God sure surprised them didn’t he? Jesus didn’t fit their expectations. And when He claimed oneness with the Father they couldn’t accept that.

I guess you can’t accept that either.

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
ryanoneil said:
Are you suggesting that Jesus was concieved by David and Bathsheba? :confused:
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Of course. That is how he is Son of David, firstborn from among the dead to be resurrected into Mary’s womb, like God created Adam from dust and placed him in the Garden. Adam is also called Son of God in Luke, being conceived in the Spirit by God, though still a human.

Jesus paid for David’s sin, then he was resurrected and paid for all the sins of the Jews, then claimed his birthright as Messiah, a greater than Solomon as his older brother.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
That’s it, he ascended alive and returns alive to judge the world.
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Dear FoA,

My question is How many times that Jesus must be resurrected? To make it easier, I will give a multiple choice answer : (a) Once (b) Twice (c) Three Times (d) More than Three Times. What is your answer, and please don’t run into other issue.
 
swariffin said:
Dear FoA,

My question is How many times that Jesus must be resurrected? To make it easier, I will give a multiple choice answer : (a) Once (b) Twice (c) Three Times (d) More than Three Times. What is your answer, and please don’t run into other issue.
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Twice, first time Mary’s womb, the second into Joseph’s tomb. After that he is alive forevermore.

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

1 Kings 8:25 Therefore now, LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit on the throne of Israel; so that thy children take heed to their way, that they walk before me as thou hast walked before me.

This promise demands that David always have a son on the throne. How can God keep it when there is no man on the throne from Babylon to Jesus? Easy, God takes one of David’s own sons and makes him Messiah with an everlasting throne that never ends. Jesus is Messiah directly from David.
 
“For those who have faith no explanation is necessary, for those who do not believe no explanation is enough.”
 
Was not Jesus the promised one from the beginning even before David even existed?
 
John 15

If the world hates you, you must realise that it hated me before it hated you. If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own , but because you do not belong to the world because my choice of you has drawn you out of the world, the world hates you. Remember this: a servant is not greater than his master. if they persecute me they will persecute you too.
If I had not come, if I had not spoken to them they would have been blameless but as it is they have no excuse for their sin. Anyone who hates me hates my Father
 
wisdomseeker said:
Was not Jesus the promised one from the beginning even before David even existed?
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He is the promised Messiah Son of David come to bring the Kingdom of God. The world hates that, they want a secular USA, secular Israel, etc.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Of course. That is how he is Son of David, firstborn from among the dead to be resurrected into Mary’s womb, like God created Adam from dust and placed him in the Garden. Adam is also called Son of God in Luke, being conceived in the Spirit by God, though still a human.
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There is a big difference between resurrection/conception and resurrection/being born. Jesus wasn’t resurrected into Mary’s womb, he was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. (Luke 1:31)

And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. (Luke 1:35)
Jesus paid for David’s sin, then he was resurrected and paid for all the sins of the Jews, then claimed his birthright as Messiah, a greater than Solomon as his older brother.
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I think you are the only one who believes this FoA. David’s natural born sons were passed over for one of his descendents. There is no evidence of multiple births, deaths, and resurrections.

For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. (Rom 6:10)

*who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did **once for all *when He offered up Himself. (Heb 7:27)

*By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. *(Heb 10:10)

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; (1Pet 3:18)

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
ryanoneil said:
There is a big difference between resurrection/conception and resurrection/being born. Jesus wasn’t resurrected into Mary’s womb, he was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. (Luke 1:31)

And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. (Luke 1:35)
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Yet Jesus is made from the seed of David according to the flesh. To be Messiah Jesus has to descend from David. So there is a miracle of the Holy Spirit to create Jesus, you just aren’t told what it is. But now I see what it is.
ryanoneil said:
I think you are the only one who believes this FoA. David’s natural born sons were passed over for one of his descendents. There is no evidence of multiple births, deaths, and resurrections.
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I think I am too, but maybe it’s time that it is revealed. What do you think it means that Jesus is firstborn from among the dead? Jesus wasn’t the first human resurrected.

David had to always have a son on the throne according to God’s promise, but he didn’t after Babylon destroyed the throne. So how can David always have a son on the throne?
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Yet Jesus is made from the seed of David according to the flesh. To be Messiah Jesus has to descend from David. So there is a miracle of the Holy Spirit to create Jesus, you just aren’t told what it is. But now I see what it is.
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Jesus human body descended from David’s blood line and by the power of the Holy Spirit God dwelled in a human body
I think I am too, but maybe it’s time that it is revealed. What do you think it means that Jesus is firstborn from among the dead? Jesus wasn’t the first human resurrected.
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Jesus is the first that rose to an immortal life. Others were raised from the dead, but returned again to their graves. But Jesus will not die a second time like the rest.
David had to always have a son on the throne according to God’s promise, but he didn’t after Babylon destroyed the throne. So how can David always have a son on the throne?
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Because God’s promise is conditional!

*and the LORD may fulfill the promise he made on my behalf when he said, **'If *your sons so conduct themselves that they remain faithful to me with their whole heart and with their whole soul, you shall always have someone of your line on the throne of Israel.’ (1 Kings 2:4)

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
ryanoneil said:
Jesus human body descended from David’s blood line and by the power of the Holy Spirit God dwelled in a human body
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But it was a miracle of the Holy Spirit that created the body of Jesus from a flesh of David’s line, without sperm and egg. And concerning the promise I mention further, it must be from that of David’s own son.
ryanoneil said:
Jesus is the first that rose to an immortal life. Others were raised from the dead, but returned again to their graves. But Jesus will not die a second time like the rest.
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Maybe. Though some say Moses was resurrected and ascended alive thus his body was hidden as alluded to in Jude.
ryanoneil said:
Because God’s promise is conditional!

*and the LORD may fulfill the promise he made on my behalf when he said, **‘If ***your sons so conduct themselves that they remain faithful to me with their whole heart and with their whole soul, you shall always have someone of your line on the throne of Israel.’ (1 Kings 2:4)
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Only for Solomon. And his throne died first with the split with Israel, then entirely with Babylon.

1 Kings 9:6-7 But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:

But for David it is unconditional.

2 Samuel 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

How does David’s throne and house remain intact from David to his son if it was gone for many generations until Jesus?

1 Kings 9:5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

In prophecy Messiah is always described as the House of David, not the House of Solomon.

Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

So Jesus is the son that keeps David’s throne intact, from David to him, never failing a generation without a king.
 
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