As a Catholic must I vote Trump?

[Ridgerunner]

No.

See:
U.S. Catholics urged to weigh issues carefully as they enter voting booth

The document “Faithful Citizenship”, as cited there repeatedly, specifically states that “as Catholics we are not single issue voters”.

By the way, I don’t believe Trump on his pro-life stance (like on so many other issues), and I will not vote for him for several grave reasons.

There is no issue favored by Trump that even remotely equals the evil of elective abortion. The “Faithful Citizenship” document says that too. We are not to be “single issue” to the extent of choosing one intrinsic evil over another.

But in this election, the only promoter of intrinsic evil is Hillary Clinton. Perhaps if you would care to share your “several grave reasons”, we could consider them and compare them to a million killed children annually for relative gravity.

 

[fnr]

Just because he is pro-life or leans that way. There are many other aspects of him I honestly do not condone. I feel foolish voting for someone based on one issue.

No, you are not required to vote for Trump.

If we look at the issue in terms of proportionality, we need to think about abortion. With over 1,000,000 abortions in the U.S. per year, it’s a big number. But in terms of hard evidence, voting for Trump won’t do much, if anything, to reduce that number.

But imagine if Trump wins and puts four pro-life justices on the Supreme Court. Roe v. Wade is overturned. Abortion control goes back to the states. Take California, New York, Illinois, Chicago, Washington, Oregon, Washington D.C., Hawaii, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Connecticut, Vermont, New Jersey, and probably Colorado and Michigan as blue states, and they’re likely to keep it legal. Right there, that’s the majority of abortions that currently take place – and they stay legal.

In 1970, New York State legalized abortion. In 1971-1972, before Roe v. Wade, 29,227 women who were Michigan residents received legal abortions in New York State. Imagine how easy it would be to get an abortion with all the blue states keeping it legal.

Look at womenonwaves.org or any web site pushing Cytotec as a way to perform DIY abortions, and it looks like it’ll be easy to get. Cytotec is already on sale in Texas at flea markets near the Mexican border.

Overall, I would imagine that the drop in abortions due to overturning Roe v. Wade would be on the order of 5-10%. However, that assumes that nothing else happens to drive up abortion rates, in which case the reduction could be even lower.

Imagine Trump puts 45% tariffs on goods from China and 35% tariffs on U.S. companies that have moved out of the U.S., exports all the undocumented immigrants, and builds a wall along the border. Everyone in the U.S. will be paying more for just about everything. We’ll all have less money to spend. The economy and jobs will suffer. See here, for example. What does that do to fertility? It reduces it. Are people going to stop having sex? Probably not, so it’s likely that there will be INCREASED demand for abortion.

So should you vote for Trump based on abortion? Absolutely not. He’s not getting my vote (nor is Hillary), and pro-lifers should stop fooling themselves if they think that voting for Trump will do much good, if any.

We need to get out and evangelize. Stopping abortion is a long-term objective. See my suggestions here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php/shop.catholic.com/s//showthread.php?t=1015021

I strongly urge you not to vote for Clinton. Her plan to overturn the Hyde Amendment will probably increase abortions, but that’s a battle for the future.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

No.

See:
U.S. Catholics urged to weigh issues carefully as they enter voting booth

The document “Faithful Citizenship”, as cited there repeatedly, specifically states that “as Catholics we are not single issue voters”.

By the way, I don’t believe Trump on his pro-life stance (like on so many others issues), and I will not vote for him for several grave reasons.

I’ve been criticized for being too critical of Trump. I never thought I needed to be critical of Hillary. Her record speaks for itself. Her stance on abortion is the same as Obama’s.

I don’t trust Trump, especially when it comes to the life issues. I’ll be voting third party.

I would like to reiterate that life issues should have been evaluated more closely during the primaries!! Trump would not have won the primaries if all republicans voted “pro life”.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

I was on the fence for much of this election cycle precisely because of my moral objections to Donald Trump. These objections are more than mere personal moral objections to him, but also concerns about the moral havoc he could do to our nation.

I strongly considered a 3rd party option due to the moral depravity I see in Hillary Clinton, thus making her not even close to be considered.

I asked myself if I could possibly allow Hillary Clinton to become the President of the United States and have a clear conscience regarding that choice. I concluded that the only way I could vote 3rd party is if both major party candidates were equally bad. In my view, there is no way a 3rd party candidate will be winning this November, and a 3rd party vote would essentially mean I am allowing one or the other candidate to become President. I would be okay with that result if both candidates were equally bad.

Through several months of soul searching, I’ve concluded that there is no candidate that can do as much damage to the moral fabric of our nation than Hillary Clinton.

I will be voting for Donald Trump.

 

[Al_Moritz]

There is no issue favored by Trump that even remotely equals the evil of elective abortion. The “Faithful Citizenship” document says that too. We are not to be “single issue” to the extent of choosing one intrinsic evil over another.

But in this election, the only promoter of intrinsic evil is Hillary Clinton. Perhaps if you would care to share your “several grave reasons”, we could consider them and compare them to a million killed children annually for relative gravity.

You should read the link that I posted. Unlike your continuous exhortation that as Catholics we must vote Trump (some here even went so far to call it bullying) the bishops are much more cautious.

And by the way, we have already discussed the abortion issue at length. Even if Roe vs. Wade were overturned (slim chance even with a conservative Supreme Court, given the court’s history) this would have an impact on abortion only in the single percentage digits because of all the state laws.

 

[twf]

Absolutely not. At least one US bishop has made it clear that the faithful are not obliged to vote for either candidate. As I’ve stated many times on this forum, I have yet to meet a non-American Catholic who comprehends our American brethren’s admiration for this vile, loathsome man. He is completely at odd with your bishops on a score of issues. He boasts of his “love” (his word) of torture (which the Church condemns as intrinsically evil). He’s proposed the murder of non-combatants (another intrinsic evil). He’s completely at odds with the Church’s teachings on the treatment of immigrants and minorities. He’s been caught on screen in lie after lie and contradiction after contradiction. He has mocked the handicapped, ridiculed women for being fat, humiliated a woman with her crying baby. He’s boasted that he’s never sought God’s forgiveness. He’s thrice married and has boasted of groping women. He’s the ultimate narcissist who can’t handle any semblance of criticism constantly lashing out on Twitter.
Of course Hilary Clinton’s radical pro-choice position is unforgivable. I don’t see how either are godly choices. If I were American, I would focus on electing worthy, pro-life senators.

 

[JSAD]

There is really no point voting third party.

The US does not have parliamentary style elections, where even if some party gains a minority there will be representation in the parliament. The extremely ‘good’ pro-life candidate who sticks to church teaching will be forgotten.

If you vote third party, it’ll go nowhere and you’ll get someone clearly opposed to Church teaching. Maybe with a Republican there is some hope(especially if republicans control congress ).

It’s not perfect, but this world isn’t.

If not vote him out in 4 years.

 

[J_Peterson]

MODERATOR NOTE

This thread will be left open even though it does not have a news link.

Please follow the forum rules on charity

With all due respect, is this something that needs to be discussed further? I for one am a bit sick of this argument. It’s usually the same people saying the same things. I guess it’s better to keep it in one thread rather than the usual thread hijack but it’s a very dead horse and we all know the answer is: “No, you don’t have to vote for Trump.”

 

[Trad_Catholic27]

Yes since he is the best choice to beat Hilary and overturn Roe v. Wade.

Catholic’s have an responsibility to protect the Faith and defeat the modernist agenda in society that’s supported by the Democratic Party

 

[pcrtx]

the way I am looking at it is this:

Abortion is 100% death and there is no fixing it.

Bad tempers and talking bad about someone can be corrected.

I would rather elect someone who has hope.

 

[Al_Moritz]

No, you are not required to vote for Trump.

If we look at the issue in terms of proportionality, we need to think about abortion. With over 1,000,000 abortions in the U.S. per year, it’s a big number. But in terms of hard evidence, voting for Trump won’t do much, if anything, to reduce that number.

But imagine if Trump wins and puts four pro-life justices on the Supreme Court. Roe v. Wade is overturned. Abortion control goes back to the states. Take California, New York, Illinois, Chicago, Washington, Oregon, Washington D.C., Hawaii, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Connecticut, Vermont, New Jersey, and probably Colorado and Michigan as blue states, and they’re likely to keep it legal. Right there, that’s the majority of abortions that currently take place – and they stay legal.

In 1970, New York State legalized abortion. In 1971-1972, before Roe v. Wade, 29,227 women who were Michigan residents received legal abortions in New York State. Imagine how easy it would be to get an abortion with all the blue states keeping it legal.

Look at womenonwaves.org or any web site pushing Cytotec as a way to perform DIY abortions, and it looks like it’ll be easy to get. Cytotec is already on sale in Texas at flea markets near the Mexican border.

Overall, I would imagine that the drop in abortions due to overturning Roe v. Wade would be on the order of 5-10%. However, that assumes that nothing else happens to drive up abortion rates, in which case the reduction could be even lower.

Precisely. And Roe vs. Wade will not even be overturned. Conservative Chief Justice Roberts clearly indicated such.

 

[mlz]

Just because he is pro-life or leans that way. There are many other aspects of him I honestly do not condone. I feel foolish voting for someone based on one issue.

Please type in Non-negotiable voting issues (IN Catholic Answers) and there is an excellent explanation by Tim Staples as to what issues are non-negotiable as a Catholic to vote for and it is CLEAR that yes, we CAN’T vote for anyone who is for the taking of innocent life in abortion, period. Now who we CAN voter is anyone who doesn’t have that barrier on their platform. So…as a Catholic we must not vote for Hillary as her position on the life of the unborn and her appointments to the Supreme Court are in clearly in violation of that “non-negotiable”.

Must you vote for Trump? All I can say is that you can’t vote for Hillary but if you vote for anyone other than Trump your vote won’t make a difference as any other candidate doesn’t have a chance so the only vote to stop Hillary would be Trump. He isn’t the best candidate, I agree but the only one than can prevent Hillary from becoming President.

mlx

 

[DeniseNY]

Please type in Non-negotiable voting issues (IN Catholic Answers) and there is an excellent explanation by Tim Staples as to what issues are non-negotiable as a Catholic to vote for and it is CLEAR that yes, we CAN’T vote for anyone who is for the taking of innocent life in abortion, period. Now who we CAN voter is anyone who doesn’t have that barrier on their platform. So…as a Catholic we must not vote for Hillary as her position on the life of the unborn and her appointments to the Supreme Court are in clearly in violation of that “non-negotiable”.

Must you vote for Trump? All I can say is that you can’t vote for Hillary but if you vote for anyone other than Trump your vote won’t make a difference as any other candidate doesn’t have a chance so the only vote to stop Hillary would be Trump. He isn’t the best candidate, I agree but the only one than can prevent Hillary from becoming President.

mlx

 

[Ridgerunner]

Precisely. And Roe vs. Wade will not even be overturned. Conservative Chief Justice Roberts clearly indicated such.

More Clinton organization talking points. Roberts did NOT say Roe would never be overturned. He said it’s the “settled law” which all Supreme Court decisions are until they’re overturned. And sometimes they are overturned. The Supreme Court once said marriage was only between a man and a woman, but they overturned that one didn’t they?

 

[fnr]

More Clinton organization talking points. Roberts did NOT say Roe would never be overturned. He said it’s the “settled law” which all Supreme Court decisions are until they’re overturned. And sometimes they are overturned. The Supreme Court once said marriage was only between a man and a woman, but they overturned that one didn’t they?

Again, even if Roe v Wade is overturned, there is no reason to believe that abortion rates will drop much, if at all. See my earlier post.

 

[Al_Moritz]

Please type in Non-negotiable voting issues (IN Catholic Answers) and there is an excellent explanation by Tim Staples as to what issues are non-negotiable as a Catholic to vote for and it is CLEAR that yes, we CAN’T vote for anyone who is for the taking of innocent life in abortion, period. Now who we CAN voter is anyone who doesn’t have that barrier on their platform. So…as a Catholic we must not vote for Hillary as her position on the life of the unborn and her appointments to the Supreme Court are in clearly in violation of that “non-negotiable”.

Must you vote for Trump? All I can say is that you can’t vote for Hillary but if you vote for anyone other than Trump your vote won’t make a difference as any other candidate doesn’t have a chance so the only vote to stop Hillary would be Trump. He isn’t the best candidate, I agree but the only one than can prevent Hillary from becoming President.

mlx

With all due respect, the opinions of Catholic Answers do not take precedence over the document “Faithful Citizenship”, issued by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. If you read that document carefully, it is clear that the voting choice cannot simply be boiled down to a facile list of so-called Non-Negotiables.

I would also like to point to this CAF post by Father Ruggero who has some harsh words for the website “Catholics for Trump”, cited in the post he replies to:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14214614&postcount=219

 

[stinkcat_14]

Do we have a moral obligation to oppose evil when opportunity presents that is within our power? I do not see where that can be escaped.

I have the ability to donate say, $500, to support Trump. Doing so would be opposing Clinton. I have never donated any money to political candidates, nor do I ever have any intention of doing so. Is my refusal to donate immoral? No, of course not. Just as my refusal to vote for Trump is not immoral either.

 

[john81]

Just because he is pro-life or leans that way. There are many other aspects of him I honestly do not condone. I feel foolish voting for someone based on one issue.

You don’t have to vote for Trump, but you cannot (as a Catholic) vote for Hilary.

 

[queenofheartscv]

I have the ability to donate say, $500, to support Trump. Doing so would be opposing Clinton. I have never donated any money to political candidates, nor do I ever have any intention of doing so. Is my refusal to donate immoral? No, of course not. Just as my refusal to vote for Trump is not immoral either.

If enough voters think this way and not vote, hillary might be our next president. It’s whether you can accept that consequence.

 

[mary_bobo]

Donald Trump is not a saint. But God willing, he’s a better choice to steer this country in a correct direction.

God has nothing to do with it, with Trump the Devil is in the detail. The USA is a Nation built by immigrants. Trumps anti-immigrant rants are as unAmerican as American history proves. Building his wall will split the continent and divide the US from her southern neighbours abandoning the long established Monroe Doctrine. His locker-room views on women hardly sit well with a faith that places Mary at its heart his business failures hardly
justify the belief he is some economic miracle worker. And finally his views on NATO and kow-towing to Putin’s Russia will destroy the Western Alliance built after 1945 that effectively won the Cold War.
Be careful what you ask of God when the Devil is listening.

You misstated what Trump has been saying. He is not against immigration–he is opposed to ILLEGAL immigration. Please note that distinction.