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geezerbob
Guest
- Status
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Celia
Guest
trailblazer said:
Hi trailblazer…I understand your viewpoint. But I will never think that casualties and young men and women my age dying in a foreign country for other peoples reasons is right. I will never think it is just a fact of life. It’s wrong.
I’m not proud of my president because he comes across to me as an egotistical, selfish little boy. He always has. If he just came out of nowhere and wasn’t one of the Bush family, I really don’t think (well, I hope not anyway) that he would have even been nominated. Clinton was president through most of my childhood and early teen years. I think that he made a lot of embarrasing mistakes that made the democratic party look bad. But he did his job well. When he was president I wasn’t afraid that kids I went to school with would be coming home in body bags. (I have a couple former classmates stationed overseas. Also, my brother in law is in the Air Force and my brother is a Marine-currently they are here but my brother will be leaving at the end of themonth.) War terrifies me because of their safety. I don’t know if anything is worth the cost of their lives that this administration seems to have no problem putting at risk.
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Celia
Guest
Did you read the posts from before in reference to what we were talking about?
I don’t see clear purposes. I see deception and I feel suspicious.
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gilliam
Guest
That general statement can’t be right. There must be causes you feel are justified to fight for.
Should someone come to your aid, for example, if you go to a foreign country and a gang of thugs wants to rape and kill you?
What about if they want to rape and kill millions of others?
K
kp1
Guest
To save time, I am posting what I said in another thread
Do you not remeber the mass graves in Iraq, the chemical weapons on his own people, the once very profitable Iraq turned into a land of starvation and no medial immunization because of SADDAM!
The problem with being the Big Guy (the USA) we are hell if we do and hell if we do not. To stand by and let Saddam thumb us is considered a disgrace and he would have kept pushing the envelope. Did you forget about The Russian PM admitting he called Bush to inform him of a plot from Iraq against the US? The Iraqi people know it will get better, for some it already has. The problem is the terrorists using this as a Jihad. Brainwashing is a powerful tool and the anti-US stuff being spun around is just fueling their fire. If we leave now, we let everyone down who is counting on us to destroy the terrorists. Problem, it is not a specific country, this is why it is so difficult. We said we were going to fight terrorists, we had to go on the offensive to get them! If you want to wait for another attack to get in the game, go to Israel. We have just been a little more isolated, but the whole world has been dealing with this for decades!
After 9/11 it was stated that they woke the sleeping giant! God gives us gifts for a reason, to use them. If he gives the US all these resources to help and protect the little guys, well we better use them. Yes our society is going down the tube, but we still have the obligation to help the little guy because we are the biggest and most powerful.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST STAY IN! If we back down now, woe to our children. We will never have peace, the terrorists will have won. This is not about ego, this is about the peace for the whole world.
Good Night, I hope you sleep comfortablly in your warm safe bed! Remember to pray for our Soldiers and Sailors who will be pulling all nighters so you can critizes them in the morning!
I am sorry for all of those who think the fantasy life we once knew before 9/11 will return, it will not! We, as usual are just late in the war. The US tends to be a little self-centered when it comes to other countries and their problems UNTIL we are forced into it by some action, 9/11, Pearl Harbor, Sinking the Lucitania. We can no longer say “that is their problem, I want to pretend it does not happen”. Sorry, but it has been a way of life for so many and they have been waitting for the US to help them because they can not do it on their own. The whole basis for democracy, according to my PHD brother-in-law, is to protect the little guy and their freedoms. Well, we are the world promoted Big Brother, you might not always like what he does, but you sure want him on your side!
For the Anti-war / tree huggers out there who dream of Utopia, it is not going to happen as long as the terrorists keep instilling fear in people around the world. The terrorists are like the bullies on the playground. You are fearful of them, pay them off, or just try to stay out of their eye sight. However, you might just get your Big Brother to take care of him later!
Do you not remeber the mass graves in Iraq, the chemical weapons on his own people, the once very profitable Iraq turned into a land of starvation and no medial immunization because of SADDAM!
The problem with being the Big Guy (the USA) we are hell if we do and hell if we do not. To stand by and let Saddam thumb us is considered a disgrace and he would have kept pushing the envelope. Did you forget about The Russian PM admitting he called Bush to inform him of a plot from Iraq against the US? The Iraqi people know it will get better, for some it already has. The problem is the terrorists using this as a Jihad. Brainwashing is a powerful tool and the anti-US stuff being spun around is just fueling their fire. If we leave now, we let everyone down who is counting on us to destroy the terrorists. Problem, it is not a specific country, this is why it is so difficult. We said we were going to fight terrorists, we had to go on the offensive to get them! If you want to wait for another attack to get in the game, go to Israel. We have just been a little more isolated, but the whole world has been dealing with this for decades!
After 9/11 it was stated that they woke the sleeping giant! God gives us gifts for a reason, to use them. If he gives the US all these resources to help and protect the little guys, well we better use them. Yes our society is going down the tube, but we still have the obligation to help the little guy because we are the biggest and most powerful.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST STAY IN! If we back down now, woe to our children. We will never have peace, the terrorists will have won. This is not about ego, this is about the peace for the whole world.
Good Night, I hope you sleep comfortablly in your warm safe bed! Remember to pray for our Soldiers and Sailors who will be pulling all nighters so you can critizes them in the morning!
I am sorry for all of those who think the fantasy life we once knew before 9/11 will return, it will not! We, as usual are just late in the war. The US tends to be a little self-centered when it comes to other countries and their problems UNTIL we are forced into it by some action, 9/11, Pearl Harbor, Sinking the Lucitania. We can no longer say “that is their problem, I want to pretend it does not happen”. Sorry, but it has been a way of life for so many and they have been waitting for the US to help them because they can not do it on their own. The whole basis for democracy, according to my PHD brother-in-law, is to protect the little guy and their freedoms. Well, we are the world promoted Big Brother, you might not always like what he does, but you sure want him on your side!
For the Anti-war / tree huggers out there who dream of Utopia, it is not going to happen as long as the terrorists keep instilling fear in people around the world. The terrorists are like the bullies on the playground. You are fearful of them, pay them off, or just try to stay out of their eye sight. However, you might just get your Big Brother to take care of him later!
G
geezerbob
Guest
Clinton appear to be a fan of Teddy Roosevelt but got things mixed up. He talked big but carried no stick. If he had done his job well and had taken the fight to the terrorists after any one of the four attacks that occurred during his time in office, 9/11 just might not have happened.
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Celia
Guest
BTW, Mark: 2,000 Americans dead and more than half of these objectives not met yet. What in the world did Bush mean then when he said “Mission Accomplished” if we are far from being done?
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geezerbob
Guest
Thanks to gilliam on another thread:
From a soldier in Iraq:
Joe or Sally know it all, sitting back in the States, sipping on a four dollar latte from Starbucks, would wrongfully interpret this as a major problem confronting every soldier or Marine over here. These same people profess their undying love and support for the men and women in uniform, but are quick to point out their hatred for the war. I say love both. Not necessarily the inherent violent, chaotic, and destructive side of war, but the war we are now waging to win the peace and nurture a democratic Iraq. I say support not only us, but what we are doing over here as well. After all, if you don’t support the good things we’re doing, criticizing everything we do in turn, then in my humble, doesn’t matter opinion, you aren’t supporting us either. Oh, the pseudo intellectual elite, they’re so blinded by their supposed intellect and open mindedness, they fail to realize how clouded their judgement actually is.
From a soldier in Iraq:
Joe or Sally know it all, sitting back in the States, sipping on a four dollar latte from Starbucks, would wrongfully interpret this as a major problem confronting every soldier or Marine over here. These same people profess their undying love and support for the men and women in uniform, but are quick to point out their hatred for the war. I say love both. Not necessarily the inherent violent, chaotic, and destructive side of war, but the war we are now waging to win the peace and nurture a democratic Iraq. I say support not only us, but what we are doing over here as well. After all, if you don’t support the good things we’re doing, criticizing everything we do in turn, then in my humble, doesn’t matter opinion, you aren’t supporting us either. Oh, the pseudo intellectual elite, they’re so blinded by their supposed intellect and open mindedness, they fail to realize how clouded their judgement actually is.
J
Jeffrey
Guest
Hit the nail on the head right there…IMO.
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Celia
Guest
Thanks Thekla. I appreciate your posts. I’m feeling a little ganged up on right now.
And it’s quotes like you have here that supports my suspicions and makes me wonder why more people aren’t.
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gilliam
Guest
Don’t feel ganged up on. We are trying to have a dialog.
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Celia
Guest
If I truly believed that that was the reason why we went in- to save lives of the Iraqi people, and quite possibly our own in the future, then maybe my viewpoints on this war would be different. But like I said a bunch of times now, I’m unclear on that. And not very trusting of this administration.
C
Celia
Guest
Thanks. I’ll try to relax.
T
Thekla
Guest
Thekla:
You can’t be talking about me because the only quotes I’ve posted have been from my president and vice-president. I consider their words to be just part of the evidence of the lies and deceit perpetrated upon the citizenry.
As for speaking in broad terms and repeating a theme, I do believe that I share that characteristic with my president.
Thekla
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gilliam
Guest
That’s what I thought
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mlchance
Guest
I’ve read the whole thread. You asked if Iraq ever attacked or threatened Americans. The answer is, “Yes.” Definitive evidence of those attacks and threats has been provided.
There are slightly less than 1900 casualties so far including coalition members. Almost 1700 of these are Americans. Let’s strive for some precision in our numbers.
And speaking of numerical precision: There were eight rationales for Operation Iraqi Freedom. Fully four of them have been met. That’s not less than half. That’s half on the money:
- First, ending the regime of Saddam Hussein. Result: Success.
- Sixth, to end sanctions and to immediately deliver humanitarian support to the displaced and to many needed citizens. Result: Success.
- Seventh, to secure Iraq’s oil fields and resources, which belong to the Iraqi people. Result: Success.
- Finally, to help the Iraqi people create conditions for a transition to a representative self-government. Result: Success.
- Second, to identify, isolate and eliminate, Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. Result: Mixed.
- Third, to search for, to capture and to drive out terrorists from the country. Result: Work in progress. Too early to tell.
- Fourth, to collect intelligence related to terrorist networks. Result: Work in progress. Too early to tell.
- Fifth, to collect such intelligence as is related to the global network of illicit weapons of mass destruction. Result: Work in progress. Too early to tell.
– Mark L. Chance.
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gilliam
Guest
We also should note that in this number are those who who died of natural causes, auto accidents in Iraq, other accidents and suicides once they came home from combat. I have heard that number is approximatly 28%.
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Thekla
Guest
You’ll see that the deaths listed are for those who either died in Iraq or were injured/became ill there and later died in another country. There is no differentiation between being blown up, having a traffic accident, killing yourself, or flipping your humvee while being shot at.
The numbers do not include stateside suicides.
May they all find peace with God.
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geezerbob
Guest
geezerbob:
Okay, who said this, Cheney or Bush?
Of course Dick isn’t surprised. American people think precisely what he wants them to think; those who aren’t outright lying to pollsters to support the government. Shall I bring up the Harris Poll where more than 40% of people say they believe there were Iraqis on the planes on 9/11? It’s a culture of deception that’s being fostered and fanned and you want to debate semantics.
And, which one of them said this?
“Conservatives believe they know the best way to honor the sacrifices of our troops in Iraq: We must all pretend that the war is going fine, that progress is proceeding according to plan, that the insurgency is soon to be routed, and that victory is somewhere just over the horizon.”
And this quote expresses my feelings exactly:
I do try to avoid debating the rantings of delusional ideologues,
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Thekla
Guest
Thekla:
Of course Dick isn’t surprised. American people think precisely what he wants them to think; those who aren’t outright lying to pollsters to support the government. Shall I bring up the Harris Poll where more than 40% of people say they believe there were Iraqis on the planes on 9/11? It’s a culture of deception that’s being fostered and fanned and you want to debate semantics.
Actually, that’s me. I’m not famous for the quote, but it’s not bad.
And, which one of them said this?
“Conservatives believe they know the best way to honor the sacrifices of our troops in Iraq: We must all pretend that the war is going fine, that progress is proceeding according to plan, that the insurgency is soon to be routed, and that victory is somewhere just over the horizon.”
This one I’ll give you. BUT - it does come from the original post and I didn’t bring it in from outside.
And this quote expresses my feelings exactly:
I do try to avoid debating the rantings of delusional ideologues,
You are 100% right on this one; it’s one of my better efforts, but again I’m not quoting myself.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
The only outside quotes have been from my president and vice-president. The quote from the editorial is the same editorial in the original post; a post that you responded to as well.
Thekla
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