C
CMatt25
Guest
How are they apostates when Vat 2 was an official Church council? Pope John 23 was an apostate?
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How are they apostates when Vat 2 was an official Church council? Pope John 23 was an apostate?
J
Jehoshua
Guest
They (the so called Liberal Catholics) didn;t follow the true teaching of V.II as it was written and taught by the magisterium. John XXIII di not in any way advocate or support the modernis heresy, the modernists hijacked teh council and decided to try and change the Church. The teaching of the Church is immutable everliving and unchangeable, these people, those fallen into the modernist heresy, which has been said to be the synthesis of all heresies sought to change the teachings of christ to fit their own misguided philosophies, many commited abominable acts and sought deliberately to cause strive and division in the Church.
I have no doubt that many of these so called “Liberal Catholics” incurred automatic excommunication, latae sententiae, and are no longer in full communion with the Catholic Church.
Thank the Lord that his promise to the church is kept always. “Upon this rock i will build my Church and not even the gates of Hell will prevail against it”
I have no doubt that many of these so called “Liberal Catholics” incurred automatic excommunication, latae sententiae, and are no longer in full communion with the Catholic Church.
Thank the Lord that his promise to the church is kept always. “Upon this rock i will build my Church and not even the gates of Hell will prevail against it”
P
ProVobis
Guest
One has nothing to do with the other. “Apostates” were allowed to speak at Vatican 2. Heretics and Communists were asked to observe. But that doesn’t mean Vatican 2 wasn’t an official Church council with no repercussions.
Definitely not. But as an aside, it was reported that on his dying bed, he said “Stop the council!” You can draw your own conclusions from that.
W
wisdomseeker
Guest
I am not sure they are dying out. i see a lot of remnants left in our midst. yes, they are still here.
when i look at the bishops conference, all i see is sarcasm and jokes as if nothing is happening in the Church. they have no humility. they should be on their knees cruing out to God, repenting and asking God for forgiveness.
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ljubim
Guest
Amen!! I’m 18 and soooooo sick of it. I cannot even convey the sadness I have when the Tabernacles are thrown in corners and behind walls, and there is zero respect for the Eucharist.The good and bad news for orthodox Catholics is that the contracepting liberals don’t have (many) kids. If we just keep our heads down and do what we’re supposed to, we will win.
So… so long, baby boomers! I’m 28 years old, and my generation is about to take charge, and we can’t stand your stripped-down ugly churches and the guitar strumming '70s songs you like to sing. We don’t want to hear you tear down the church’s all male “patriarchy.” And we don’t appreciate you moving the altars and the tabernacles and trying to protestantize God’s Church. If you wanted a different Church than the Catholic Church, you should have left the Catholic Church instead of trying to destroy it. You can’t win…
I am a converting Anglican, coming from a rich liturgical parish. You have no idea how much it pains me to leave altar rails, communion kneeling, incense and pipe organs and chant, and have to come into a Catholic Church which seems to detest these things. My Episcopal Church was more Catholic than Catholic, but now I have to put up with guitar strummers and liturgical garments made out of felt and laity running around in the sanctuary like they own the place! But I guarantee you this: we who cling to God’s word and the Tradition of the Church (and the traditions of the Church), we will win. God promised it…
Liberals have had their season of destruction and death and yes, Catholics are contracepting. But I have put my money where my mouth is, so if any cradle Catholic who is currently not doing what the Church teaches wants any tips on NFP, I’d be happy to discuss it with you. I may not be Catholic yet, but I promise you what the Church teaches is absolutely true and my marriage is soooooo much better following what the Church teaches.
If there’s any women wondering what they can do,
1)Dress up for mass (shopping spree + looking beautiful, who can complain?)
2)Wear a chapel veil (Catholic traditions store on Ebay have the loveliest ones - not your grandma’s chapel veil
)3)Kneel to receive the Eucharist on the tongue. You’ll receive God’s graces beyond belief! I just did it for the first time (outside of a Latin mass) on Thursday. I was literally shaking with joy afterwards… seriously, just try it. You will not be dissapointed.
4)Smile when you’re at mass like this. The old adage “Smile - people will wonder what you’re up to” has never applied better. If people see your respect and joy for the Mass, it will catch on.
The problems with abuses, architecture, and music ALL stem from a lack of respect for the Eucharist. It’s our modern epidemic. DO NOT underestimate the influence you can have on other people.
Take hope in Pope Benedict(he brought back communion on the tongue and at the rail), and our wonderful Cardinal Arinze (watch him on youtube, he’s not only a friend of true Catholics but a great comedian!). They are keeping things in check, and need our prayers.
L
ljubim
Guest
Ok, that’s smart, leave the Eucharist. Walk away from Our Lord in the tabernacle and never come back. This will not bode well for you on the day you die.Are you saying you don’t like seeing the guitars, or don’t like seeing the communion rails?
W
wisdomseeker
Guest
this is a good article. i wish all clergy think this way.
6-January-2010 – Catholic News Agency Share |
Archbishop Calls Priests To Holiness and Orthodoxy
Seville, Spain, Jan 5, 2010 (CNA).- In his first pastoral letter during the Holy Year of St. James, Archbishop Juan Jose Asenjo of Seville, Spain urged priests to be examples of holiness and closeness to the Lord, as well as to overcome mediocrity and to teach authentic Catholic doctrine in communion with the Church.
In his extensive letter, the archbishop noted that while the materialism and utilitarianism of today’s world has made it difficult to live the Gospel, the main issue the Church must face is internal.
“Many of the problems we complain about so often are present in us priests,” he said. “If we were holier, more zealous, better examples, more apostolic, mystical and better witnesses, with a strong experience of God, the Christian life would flourish more in our people, who need the close companionship of holy priests,” the archbishop added.
He went on to warn that becoming lukewarm is the “most dangerous situation a Christian can fall into. It is worse for priests because the lukewarm person is unaware of his situation or of the dangers that threaten him. Consequently, he does not feel the need to be converted.” The archbishop then urged priests to rid themselves of any lukewarmness “which renders our ministry fruitless.”
In order to do so, he said, priests should make use of frequent confession, the Eucharist and the Rosary.
Referring to orthodox teachings, the prelate remarked that “We cannot forget about communion with the Church. The Word of God is not ours, just as our doctrine is not ours - they belong to the Church.”
“The People of God have the right to hear the complete Word from the lips of their priests…They also have the right to receive genuine doctrine from us, without reducing it, in close communion with the Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops.”
“It is not right to pick and choose” according to the fads of the day, he continued, nor is it right to twist the teachings of Vatican II to our own liking or to conform to ideologies that are outside the living tradition of the Church. “We do not preach ourselves, but rather the sacrosanct ever-enduring Word of Jesus Christ, of which the Church is depository and interpreter.”
6-January-2010 – Catholic News Agency Share |
Archbishop Calls Priests To Holiness and Orthodoxy
Seville, Spain, Jan 5, 2010 (CNA).- In his first pastoral letter during the Holy Year of St. James, Archbishop Juan Jose Asenjo of Seville, Spain urged priests to be examples of holiness and closeness to the Lord, as well as to overcome mediocrity and to teach authentic Catholic doctrine in communion with the Church.
In his extensive letter, the archbishop noted that while the materialism and utilitarianism of today’s world has made it difficult to live the Gospel, the main issue the Church must face is internal.
“Many of the problems we complain about so often are present in us priests,” he said. “If we were holier, more zealous, better examples, more apostolic, mystical and better witnesses, with a strong experience of God, the Christian life would flourish more in our people, who need the close companionship of holy priests,” the archbishop added.
He went on to warn that becoming lukewarm is the “most dangerous situation a Christian can fall into. It is worse for priests because the lukewarm person is unaware of his situation or of the dangers that threaten him. Consequently, he does not feel the need to be converted.” The archbishop then urged priests to rid themselves of any lukewarmness “which renders our ministry fruitless.”
In order to do so, he said, priests should make use of frequent confession, the Eucharist and the Rosary.
Referring to orthodox teachings, the prelate remarked that “We cannot forget about communion with the Church. The Word of God is not ours, just as our doctrine is not ours - they belong to the Church.”
“The People of God have the right to hear the complete Word from the lips of their priests…They also have the right to receive genuine doctrine from us, without reducing it, in close communion with the Magisterium of the Pope and the bishops.”
“It is not right to pick and choose” according to the fads of the day, he continued, nor is it right to twist the teachings of Vatican II to our own liking or to conform to ideologies that are outside the living tradition of the Church. “We do not preach ourselves, but rather the sacrosanct ever-enduring Word of Jesus Christ, of which the Church is depository and interpreter.”
J
JustaServant
Guest
This is very much the case with many of my generation. They simply stopped going to Mass. Their children either drift into Protestantism or have no religion at all.
C
CMatt25
Guest
I don’t presume to judge what will not bode well for anyone on the day they die. But that aside, I like seeing the guitars and I’ve received the Eucharist for many yrs without kneeling at a rail. In fact I might attend Mass in the morning with guitars and drums. So that’s not Mass? Are you saying it’s not the Eucharist if there isn’t a rail?
Are you saying you don’t like seeing the guitars, or don’t like seeing the communion rails?
I
Ignatius
Guest
God bless you. It is this type of grass roots reform that will really make the difference, especially with the encouragement of Pope Benedict. Alleluia!!!
S
SunnaB16
Guest
i wasn`t referring to Vatican II or Blessed John XXIII as apostate. The ones being referred to are the likes of Mary Daly, Hans Kung, Sr. J Chittister etc; anyone who has publicly defied the Church and Her INFALLIBLE teachings on Faith and Morals. There are certain political types included.
Can`t we show some reverence towards God for one or two hours each week?
M
Middleman
Guest
You have a thread here celebrating the deaths of people based on their theological points of view, and you accuse others of lacking reverence?
This thread is appalling. It’s one thing to disagree with these men, its another to be dancing on their graves.
This type of thing here at CAF is why the site is such a turn off at times. This is horrible.
J
JustaServant
Guest
The article and title is from the Wall Street Journel.
Nobody in this thread is ‘celebrating’ anybody’s death.
S
SunnaB16
Guest
No one is dancing on any anybody
s grave, but the TRUTH remains that the dissenters mentioned on this thread were/are defying the Church and Her teachings. We all hope and pray for their repentance. Sometimes, the TRUTH hurts, but it still has to be proclaimed. The three individuals mentioned on my own post have done terrible damage. Theyve got away with it for decades. Its not MY opinion that theyve been peddling falsehood; its the CHURCHS opinion, ie Gods. Do we follow orthodoxy, or do we follow heterodoxy ...... dissent ...... apostasy? TRUTH or LIES? Theres no choice.As far as lack of reverence goes: Holy Communion in some parishes is a perfect example. A Muslim remarked to Fr. Benedict Groeschel: "If Catholics really believed they were receiving Christ, they
d act more reverently.". The Mass isnt some Pentecostal worship service.God is Holy, Holy, Holy! We should approach Him accordingly: at the same time, this would raise our own dignity.
M
Middleman
Guest
Below is a quote from the opening post and another quote from this thread. This thread is obviously celebrating the fact that people are dying.
This forum has sunk to a new low.
J
JustaServant
Guest
Well, first of all, would you please answer the final post of your thread “Longing for a simpler faith”?
Secondly, although I do not sympatize with what the poster said. The OP is a news article and a legitimate subject to discuss.
If you do not wish to discuss the article, there are other threads that might be more to your liking.
I
ibkc
Guest
The Wall Street Journal article isn’t celebrating any one individual’s death. It is noting that the folks who have pushed heterodoxy and scandal among the faithful are aging and dying, and since they haven’t passed on any depthful, coherent ideas, their agenda is slowly dying with them. It is the death of the heterodox agenda which is being celebrated.
I
Ignatius
Guest
This thread is not celebrating any such thing. Let me repeat what others have pointed out that you are intentionally ignoring,
This thread is a discussion of an article on The Wall Stree Journal. If you have an objection, why don’t you write the Journal?
I
Ignatius
Guest
God bless you. It is this type of grass roots reform that will really make the difference, especially with the encouragement of Pope Benedict. Alleluia!!!Amen!! I’m 18 and soooooo sick of it. I cannot even convey the sadness I have when the Tabernacles are thrown in corners and behind walls, and there is zero respect for the Eucharist.
If there’s any women wondering what they can do,
1)Dress up for mass (shopping spree + looking beautiful, who can complain?)
2)Wear a chapel veil (Catholic traditions store on Ebay have the loveliest ones - not your grandma’s chapel veil
3)Kneel to receive the Eucharist on the tongue. You’ll receive God’s graces beyond belief! I just did it for the first time (outside of a Latin mass) on Thursday. I was literally shaking with joy afterwards… seriously, just try it. You will not be dissapointed.
4)Smile when you’re at mass like this. The old adage “Smile - people will wonder what you’re up to” has never applied better. If people see your respect and joy for the Mass, it will catch on.
The problems with abuses, architecture, and music ALL stem from a lack of respect for the Eucharist. It’s our modern epidemic. DO NOT underestimate the influence you can have on other people.
Take hope in Pope Benedict(he brought back communion on the tongue and at the rail), and our wonderful Cardinal Arinze (watch him on youtube, he’s not only a friend of true Catholics but a great comedian!). They are keeping things in check, and need our prayers.
Again, God bless you and keep encouraging and spreading this Holy Faith to other young people to embrace reverence and authentic, orthodox Catholic practices and teaching and obey the wishes of Pope Benedict and Cardinal Arinze. Keep this spark going so that soon the fire of fervent love of Christ and reverence for The Eucharist and Mass may spread throughout the whole Catholic Church.
Your Servant in Christ.
A
a_priori
Guest
This thread is a head-scratcher. As a convert in 2006, I guess I’m not as emotionally pre-loaded as many on both sides of this argument. Thank God. I think it’s more important to feed the hungry than spat about altar rails.
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