As Vatican Revisits Divorce, Many Catholics Long for Acceptance

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ProVobis said:
Your concerns are valid. I don’t have a simple answer, no one does, but I say an Act of Contrition every night before I go to bed. Among other prayers, that is.
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There is nothing about " just punishment" in my act of contrition in Spanish ,you know…
Ok yes , it goes like " I would have wished to die than have offended you"
Could you expand on Pascal Wager ,please ?
 
graciew said:
How can we help them feel and know they are accepted ?
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You know, there is really only one condition in which I feel at peace. And that is when I know I am “right” with God. Uneasiness and conflict comes to me when I know there is something I must take care of; that I must confess and make amends for. The divorced/remarried have** not **been rejected; on the contrary they are told God’s truth in order that they too, may come into the light, share God’s love and attain peace. Read the bible graciew, and you will see that although Jesus still loves us when we are in a sinful state, He will never accept our sinful behavior and He demands (quite rightly) that we repent in order to stand “upright” once again, in His presence.

How would you show love to someone? To stop them from doing that which is dangerous and could cause them great harm, or to pretend they are not at great risk even to the point of death? Just like the Church, it is the eternal happiness of the soul we are concerned with and the rejection of God’s teaching and grace can only bring sadness and ultimate destruction.
 
Tigg said:
You know, there is really only one condition in which I feel at peace. And that is when I know I am “right” with God. Uneasiness and conflict comes to me when I know there is something I must take care of; that I must confess and make amends for. The divorced/remarried have** not** been rejected; on the contrary they are told God’s truth in order that they too, may come into the light, share God’s love and attain peace. Read the bible graciew, and you will see that although Jesus still loves us when we are in a sinful state, He will never accept our sinful behavior and He demands (quite rightly) that we repent in order to stand “upright” once again, in His presence.

How would you show love to someone? To stop them from doing that which is dangerous and could cause them great harm, or to pretend they are not at great risk even to the point of death? Just like the Church, it is the eternal happiness of the soul we are concerned with and the rejection of God’s teaching and grace can only bring sadness and ultimate destruction.
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Yes ,I understand. And also very gently said which opens us up to listen.
There is one question I have and it is Jesus’ words which have always impressed me " Father ,forgive them dor they do not know what they are doing " Luke 23:34.
I cannot think of a more merciful instance .
I am not reading it as a licence to sin but as a need not to hurt Him again and see His inmense love.
I have experienced His mercy , sadness that was of God , but not of one punishment He inflicted to me that I did not inflict to myself for rejecting His mercy.
I can be ver wrong with this one.
Have you ? Can one experience his punishment here as one does His mercy ?
 
ajecphotos said:
I am sure that God knows how people feel about missing Holy Communion and maybe one day the church will relax some things so that those with genuine reasons can receive Communion once more, even though they may be divorced and re married.

God works in mysterious ways!
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No! God has spoken the truth about marriage and divorce already. It is our obligation to pray for humility and understanding even if our actions have caused us to be denied the Eucharist. God did not deny us but if our marriages are not annulled and we remarry then we have made OUR choice. That doesn’t mean that we should avoid Mass as God is not finished with us and has much to tell us through the Gospel and Mass. God loves all who have divorced and remarried even if they cannot receive Him.
 
Demetra2 said:
No! God has spoken the truth about marriage and divorce already. It is our obligation to pray for humility and understanding even if our actions have caused us to be denied the Eucharist. God did not deny us but if our marriages are not annulled and we remarry then we have made OUR choice. That doesn’t mean that we should avoid Mass as God is not finished with us and has much to tell us through the Gospel and Mass. God loves all who have divorced and remarried even if they cannot receive Him.
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I know. One still attend mass even if one cant receive Holy Communion.

As for our choice for which partner we marry, i am sure that God knows us well and understands us to show his mercy.

I cannot think that God, in his wisdom, would ever think that everyone who marries will end up being together until death! Some marriages are so bad that they can cause death!! :eek:
 
ajecphotos said:
I know. One still attend mass even if one cant receive Holy Communion.

As for our choice for which partner we marry, i am sure that God knows us well and understands us to show his mercy.

I cannot think that God, in his wisdom, would ever think that everyone who marries will end up being together until death! Some marriages are so bad that they can cause death!! :eek:
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In cases such as this it’s not wrong for a person to seek a divorce as a matter of protection. Divorce, in and of itself, is not necessarily wrong, depending on the circumstances. In such cases as you describe, it’s also quite likely that a person could petition for a declaration of nullity and be granted one. However, as a general rule, marriages are presumed valid until proven otherwise - just as a person accused of a crime is considered innocent until proven guilty. This is where the tribunal’s role enters the situation: if the first marriage was truly invalid, it can be proven to be so, and the parties are given leave to remarry. However, it’s also necessary for us to be extremely judicious when selecting marriage partners, for this very reason.

Just because God permits evil, does not mean that He wills it, because to do so He would have to will the absence of Himself.
 
:eek: Them’s fightin’ words! Not too surprising, given Burke’s past behavior. Betcha the conversation in his recent visit with Pope Francis was more of the same.
google translate of conversation:
If the Pope continues in this direction will you do?
  • Burke: "Resistiré, I can not do otherwise. There is discomfort, it is clear.
It is painful? "
  • Burke: “yes”
It is worrying?
  • Burke: “yes”
  • France2: “According to you the Church is threatened as an institution?”
  • Burke: “The Lord has assured us, and said to St. Peter in the Gospel, that the forces of evil not prevail”
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His_helpmeet said:
Just because God permits evil, does not mean that He wills it, because to do so He would have to will the absence of Himself.
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As many theologians will tell you, God has both a positive will and a permissive will. The question then becomes how do we know for certain when His positive will is being carried out.
 
ProVobis said:
As many theologians will tell you, God has both a positive will and a permissive will. The question then becomes how do we know for certain when His positive will is being carried out.
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I guess His positive will is discerned by choosing the greater good according to that we have been created for.
Is it so ?
How was discernment in Jesus.?
By the fruits
By the direction or motives
And …I can t think of another one right now.
He did the perfect will of the Father.
I guess we have to think in terms of virtues. That is to say if they add in us.

Would this be more or less you are saying ,ProVobis?
So…( I am thinking of your Pascal ’ wager…) we are confronted with two questions to begin with
Who am I ? Where am I going ?
And find out our answer facing God.
That is how I see this journey…and struggle !
 
graciew said:
I guess His positive will is discerned by choosing the greater good according to that we have been created for.
Is it so ?
How was discernment in Jesus.?
By the fruits
By the direction or motives
And …I can t think of another one right now.
He did the perfect will of the Father.
I guess we have to think in terms of virtues. That is to say if they add in us.
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We have to make that presumption, of course. But how can we know of what only one Pope says, though.
Would this be more or less you are saying ,ProVobis?
So…( I am thinking of your Pascal ’ wager…) we are confronted with two questions to begin with
Who am I ? Where am I going ?
And find out our answer facing God.
That is how I see this journey…and struggle !
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I see you’ve been doing some serious thinking on this subject. Good.

Along those Pascal lines,

Can we say faith and good works rather than faith alone?

Can we say punishment and mercy rather than mercy alone?

Church teaching vs non-Church teaching, it seems.

This might be better discussed in the Apologetics forum, though.
 
Let me think !🙂
It is about each of us and also our families. That is where I am at.
 
ProVobis said:
We have to make that presumption, of course. But how can we know of what only one Pope says, though. QUOTE]

My parish priest is closer.We are his flock. They receive from the bishops and the line goes down from the Pope. It has always been one voice in my experience.Not one reason to doubt or panic.
In doubt I try to obey ,in doubt I remain ,In doubt I ask and pray. I can speak up and shut up as deemed prudent,( and I can mess it up too…)
This is my family. And maybe it is just natural that one extends to the “bigger family” what one does in our “small " one.
Even in very difficult times , you know , Jesus has been there.
To tell you the truth ,I don ’ t trust hypotheticals that may lead me away from my Church.As I try and reject hypotheticals that may bring distance into my family.
When the time comes , God will be there. As He has always been.As He is now.
" Be still and know that I am God.”.
That is it for me ,ProVobis. To put it simple.
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