Ask A Mormon

[Stephen168]

So, I translate this as, for Mormonism, “gospel” = itself. I don’t think I’ve met a Mormon who has understood what the word “Gospel” means. ie, Good News, which isn’t Joseph Smith!.

So it seems the Mormon gospel is whatever their President says it is at the time.

I’m not sure how they claim a ‘fullness’ of the gospel if it has to keep being changed.

Yes, I feel much better following the good news of Jesus Christ.

 

[Strevel]

OK, but where are the followers of Mussolini, Hitler and Jim Jones today?

Since the death of Joseph Smith those who believe he is a prophet of God have increased 100 fold. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has continued to grow, even against great opposition. Yes, one post in a jounral does make a difference.

Ya have to help me on this one… Just having larger numbers does not mean “more truth” than others. If such were the case we, as Catholics with 1.3 BILLION would be more true than the Mormons because our numbers overshadow them… based just upon numbers alone. The world is not shown the internal tumult they are under. May I share a factoid? Mormons do not attend or participate to the tune of 80% plus. Their Missionaries are sent home from missions (for sex with their potential converts by the thousands yearly. Some just give up and leave. They are a paper tiger. They have lost so many people officially (people that write a letter to leave) that their leadership, supposedly guided by the the personal hand of God, has back peddled on many social issues. Millions have left them! The volume of people officially leaving has gotten so large that you can now leave by fax. The court decisions and lawsuits they have lost on their practices regarding leaving has caused these issues as well.
Guys, they are a paper tiger. They are an origami bird that thinks that it can actually fly. In South America just about their entire herd has left them.
Granted we have our issues as well, but thees issues that the Mormons have are in the process of killing them. And it is sad that their leadership has taken them to that point in the very short tinme they have been around.

Don. This information is not against them its just accurate.

 

[fredystairs]

For the help of us poor “ignunt fokes”, what are those numbers as questions? I thought it was Canon for a moment, hahahaha

Don, Las Vegies

Each posting on a thread has a number. Look at the upper right hand side of any post and you’ll see the number. Your post above that I’m responding to was 233.

Makes it easier to refer to the post you want to discuss.

The three numbers in my post referred to three posts where I had asked questions that were not answered. He attempted to answer one.

 

[twopekinguys]

My only point is that there are two sides to the story of the life of Joseph Smith and the early Mormons, and that many CAF members have only heard one side.

This i the second time you have made this statement, and unfortunately, it is wrong.

There are THREE sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth, which is usually somewhere in the middle.

Refusal to see the bad along with the good is not healthy, and does not lead to a productive discussion.

 

[RebeccaJ]

May I respectfully say that you did not become acquainted with JS, no-one who has joined your church has. In fact he once boasted that no-one knew his history, well Fawn Brodie found that his history could easily be pieced together using evidence from his own time, that was buried in the church historian’s office. The result was her excommunication. Since her seminal work in 1945, many more have gone on to describe him from sources other than the LDS church, a very different picture emerges than the one that the church puts forward, and it has proved to be and will continue to be the cause of many a destroyed testimony

Very true. I left before the internet existed, but looked for non-LDS publications. When I read them, I knew I had been lied to for my whole life. Mormonism ever since has had no crediblity for me.

 

[mtolympus]

Ya have to help me on this one… Just having larger numbers does not mean “more truth” than others. If such were the case we, as Catholics with 1.3 BILLION would be more true than the Mormons because our numbers overshadow them… based just u[pon numbers alone.

OK. I didn’t say more numbers meant more truth! I simply pointed out the flaw of your comparison. You said: *“A person that follows someone will attest to their greatness. The followers of Mussolini, Hitler and Jim Jones will all sing their praises. That praising is expected from them, and has no bearing n reality.” * This is quite obvious since the followers of these mass murderers are now defeated and/or dead!

My great-great grandfather, who was a follower of Joseph Smith wrote: “after a year and a half’s careful investigation, becoming acquanted with Joseph Smith and the Mormon people, finding them an honest, industrious people, and most wickedly misrepresented, I presented myself for baptism.”

If praise such as this “had no bearing in reality” there would be no reasonable explanation for the fact that followers who believe Joseph Smith is a prophet of God has increased 1000 fold since 1840.

The world is not shown the internal tumult they are under. May I share a factoid?

Why certainly, but first, what is a factoid? Is that a comment that had no references or data to support it?

Mormons do not attend or participate to the tune of 80% plus. Their Missionaries are sent home from missions (for sex with their potential converts by the thousands yearly. Some just give up and leave. They are a paper tiger. They have lost so many people officially (people that write a letter to leave) that their leadership, supposedly guided by the the personal hand of God, has back peddled on many social issues. Millions have left them! The volume of people officially leaving has gotten so large that you can now leave by fax. The court decisions and lawsuits they have lost on their practices regarding leaving has caused these issues as well.
Guys, they are a paper tiger. They are an origami bird that thinks that it can actually fly. In South America just about their entire herd has left them.
Granted we have our issues as well, but thees issues that the Mormons have are in the process of killing them. And it is sad that their leadership has taken them to that point in the very short tinme they have been around.

Don. This information is not against them its just accurate.

More factoids I presume.
[/quote]

 

[mtolympus]

This i the second time you have made this statement, and unfortunately, it is wrong.

There are THREE sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth, which is usually somewhere in the middle.

I agree with your point, but “somewhere in the middle” is not a side.

 

[mtolympus]

The three numbers in my post referred to three posts where I had asked questions that were not answered. He attempted to answer one.

I don’t have the wisdom, knowledge or time to answer every question and have not commited to do so. I try to answer sincere questions when I can and work on one question at a time. You did not respond to my answer, so I had no idea if my “attempt” to answer your question was satisfactory.

 

[andy92]

… To further the point of silliness, I read the documents themself on the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and Brigham did send them out to kill the people leaving the UT Valley into CA. …]

This^^ I also read up on that massacre and didn’t like what I read.

So it seems the Mormon gospel is whatever their President says it is at the time.

I’m not sure how they claim a ‘fullness’ of the gospel if it has to keep being changed.

Yes, I feel much better following the good news of Jesus Christ.

The revelations are relative to the times. God’s Truth is reveal in part only to be relative to the time. Or so I’m told by my Mormon friends and missionaries.

Myself and several others here are knowledgeable. As I live in AZ the second largest density of Mormons, I have a lot of first hand experience. I can answer any question to the best of my ability. For the record I haven’t read the D&C or the official literature in full; only in part. My experience comes from living in a populous that’s 85-90% Mormon.

 

[Porknpie]

If praise such as this “had no bearing in reality” there would be no reasonable explanation for the fact that followers who believe Joseph Smith is a prophet of God has increased 1000 fold since 1840.

Olympus, by your logic perhaps you should become Muslim instead.

We can be confident that the Catholic Church is the Church established by Christ. Scripture records that the Church membership grew greatly, guided by the Holy Spirit. And we know that Christ promised to guide his Church to all truth. It’s the lamppost on the hill with 1.2b, 1.4b including them Orthodox. Your reality assumes a lot, including an apostasy the did not occur…and a supposed prophet who never tested the angel…bringing a new gospel which scripture warns us not to do.

[BIBLEDRB]Galatians 1:8[/BIBLEDRB]

And everywhere the apostles went, preached and set up churches, they taught the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Everywhere. Hard to understand how an apostasy could have occured between Christ and the apostles as all of them preached the Real Presence.

 

[twopekinguys]

I agree with your point, but “somewhere in the middle” is not a side.

The “middle” would not be a side. Somewhere in the middle is on one side or the other.

 

[fredystairs]

I don’t have the wisdom, knowledge or time to answer every question and have not commited to do so. I try to answer sincere questions when I can and work on one question at a time. You did not respond to my answer, so I had no idea if my “attempt” to answer your question was satisfactory.

I understand that not everyone knows everything, nor that everyone has the time. Just trying to get my questions answered. Please understand that I’ve asked some of these questions several different times, this venue being but the latest. Still have not received answers.

You answered my post concerning how the LDS viewed the reception of the Scriptures, but TexanKnight immediately after your answer raised another point concerning the Textus Receptus. I know nothing of the Textus Receptus, but I assume that that means he has concerns with the LDS acceptance of the Scriptures.

 

[mtolympus]

The “middle” would not be a side. Somewhere in the middle is on one side or the other.

I am glad that you now agree with me that there are only two sides. We are on a roll!

 

[Frank_Blunt]

I firmly believe that the Book of Mormon clearly states that God did infact change the skin color of those persons who were not God’s people.

I agree that is stated in the book of Mormon, but the Book of Mormon also clearly states repeatedly that some of the individual writers in the Book of Mormon might have gotten some facts wrong. (e.g. “if there are errors they are the errors of men,” the Ether 12 passage on weakness, etc.)

Now, I know that Melanin is what changes skin color to appear darker. I think that God introduced Melanin to the Lamanites to distinguish God’s people from the non believers.

When the Amalekites marked their foreheads, did God do that to them too?

God promised that the unbelievers would be set apart. I don’t think the actual causality matters.

Maybe Laman and Lemuel’s descendants just married in with darker people in the land. That’s not inherently sinful, any more than putting a mark on your forehead is sinful, but it simply worked to fulfill the Lord’s purposes.

It’s clear in the bible as well as in the book of mormon that God uses the actions of the wicked to fulfill his special purposes.

 

[twopekinguys]

I am glad that you now agree with me that there are only two sides. We are on a roll!

That is nowhere near what I said.

But, I will say this (I have said it before). You have to look at the other side of the story, or the “negative” side also, or you cannot fully discuss the issue at hand.

With that said, I feel there is overwhelming more negative information than positive regarding JS. Which leads us to the old saying, “If it walks like and duck, and talks like a duck, then chances are, it’s a duck.”

There is also Occam’s razor, whereby all things considered, the most simple explanation tends to be the right one.

Smith had failed prophecies.

Smith practiced polygamy 5 years before the revelation became public. It also happened to coincide with Emma catching him with Fanny.

Smith was run out of more than one town for treasure digging. We have to remember, back then, there wasn’t always a judge handy. Sometimes they would only see a judge once per year. Instead of keeping someone in jail for a year, and feeding them, clothing them, etc. They would run them out of town. Kind of a frontier conviction and justice.

Smith had 9 versions of the “first vision” that have some major differences to them.

Just these few examples vs personal journal entries, should tell you something, don’t you think?

 

[Arrowsmith1994]

With pleasure, About 2 years ago, i started to question a lot in my life after a tragic accident involving my grandparents, I only sought answers that i thought could be answered as a true truthseaker. I’ve never “left” the Mormon church but for a year or so I did decide to not be affiliated with a specific group, which ironically, lead me to the catholic forums because my grandparents are catholic. Out of love and compassion for them i decided to delve deeper into the understanding of catholicism and place my self in the church, so i made myself catholic without actually being baptized, if that makes any sense. I thought if i renounced a false religion and accepted the true church i would receive an anser to my prayers.I simply wanted truth and sought any and all means to receive it. I’m still a mormon purely out of respect for my parents, I haven’t seen enough evidence to deter me away and haven’t found enough evidence to lead me to another church. But i am open minded and am willing to listen and learn. Hope this makes sense, that was a rough time in my life so a lot of my past posts will be, one day im catholic, the next protestant, the next buddhist. But I do attend the LDS church each sunday and am still looking for the one true church. Hope this helps

Did you go through RCIA?

 

[Frank_Blunt]

Smith practiced polygamy 5 years before the revelation became public. It also happened to coincide with Emma catching him with Fanny.

You have been misinformed. Polygamy did not become public until after Joseph Smith’s death. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_polygamy#Joseph_Smith

“The 1843 polygamy revelation, published posthumously”

Posthumously means after his death.

Even if your anecdote about “Emma catching him with Fanny” was correct, one would presume that this event would have occurred while Joseph Smith was alive, rather than “posthumously.” I’ve seen a lot of anti-LDS material, but if you’re claiming that Joseph Smith continued to seek out young ladies after his death, that would be a new allegation …

Please clarify if you’re claiming that Joseph Smith made Polygamy public prior to his death (contradicting all of written history) or if you’re claiming that Emma caught Joseph with Fanny after Joseph Smith’s assassination.

 

[twopekinguys]

:nono: Not true. Polygamy did not become public until after Joseph Smith’s death.

No, that is one of the things that the Expositor was publishing.

"Polygamy as a doctrine was introduced into the LDS church by Joseph Smith. The practice continued after Joseph’s death in 1844, and was publicly announced in 1852, five years after the Saints arrived in Utah. Brigham Young was the most visible practitioner having been sealed to 55 women. Sanction of the practice was officially ended with the 1890 Manifesto from the church president Wilford Woodruff. "

mormonthink.com/joseph-smith-polygamy.htm

Also, please reread my post. I said he practiced it for 5 years BEFORE it became public.

 

[Frank_Blunt]

No, that is one of the things that the Expositor was publishing.

"Polygamy as a doctrine was introduced into the LDS church by Joseph Smith. The practice continued after Joseph’s death in 1844, and was publicly announced in 1852, five years after the Saints arrived in Utah. Brigham Young was the most visible practitioner having been sealed to 55 women. Sanction of the practice was officially ended with the 1890 Manifesto from the church president Wilford Woodruff. "

mormonthink.com/joseph-smith-polygamy.htm

Also, please reread my post. I said he practiced it for 5 years BEFORE it became public.

I’m unfamiliar with a definition of “coincide” that is compatible with “five years before.”

 

[twopekinguys]

I’m unfamiliar with a definition of “coincide” that is compatible with “five years before.”

When smith made the revelation public, it happened to coincide(at the same time) with Emma catching him with Fanny.

Let me break it down really simply for you. Smith was practicing polygamy secretly for approx. 5 years before Emma caught him with Fanny. Once he got busted on that, then all of a sudden the polygamy doctrine became public.

Got it now?

Please refer to the Mormon Think link I posted earlier. It is much more reliable than a Wiki articl.