Ask a Pagan

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Another way of describing the “Is All” is with the analogy of a diamond.

The one creator force of the universe, what many call God, capital G, can be seen as a diamond. Each facet of the diamond is a particular aspect of God which, in paganism and other non-Christian religions, are called gods, small g, or deities.

For instance, God creates, God sustains, God can destroy, God can forgive, God can love, God can punish, etc.

(Stay with me on this, Catholics, LOL. 😉 )

Each facet has been called by many names, by other cultures. For instance, the aspect of God that loves is called Krishna in Hinduism, Venus to the Romans, Aphrodite to the Greeks, Hathor to the Egyptians, Aine to celtic/Irish pagans, Jesus to the Christians, and on and on.

The aspect of God that controls the sky or some part of the weather is called Vayu in Hindusim, Amun to the Egyptians, Taranis to celtic pagans, Apollo to the Greeks, Tianquiztli to the Aztecs, and on and on.

Not every single pagan or non-Christian sees it in exactly this way, but it is a common method of explaining what the difference is between God capital G the One God, and gods small g aka deities.

I myself believe in one God (wow, I’m a monotheist), of which a spark is present in all of creation (panentheist), and has many different roles or aspects in the universe, and which I recognize are called different names by diferent cultures.

I hope this is helpful.
very well put.
 
Not really, the gods are very powerful beings and fully worthy of respect and worship. Why do they need to be perfect? They like you and me and every other being have their faults.
Okay, then just curious what sets them apart from oneself. I mean why not just worship oneself?

I mean from a Catholic view God is perfect and very powerful and very much perfect. The reason he has to be perfect is because thats what sets him apart from us. He is who we strive to be like. Although we can never be him, he is our example to follow.

He is purely human and divine.

But to worship an imperfect god who has faults like everyone else. Why?
 
Indeed, In High school my theology teacher told the class a story that I actuary like alot and often use to illustrate to Catholics how beyond our understanding the Is All is.

“One day St. Augustine was wandering down a beach thinking deeply on the nature of the trinity. He came across a young boy who was trying to fill a small hole in the sand with water from the ocean. The boy said he would put all of the ocean into the small hole. St. Augustine told the child he couldn’t possibly fit the whole sea in the hole, and the boy replied “I put the whole sea in this hole before you understand the trinity” and disappeared.”

true or not, this story beautifully illustrates that we as humans cannot fully comprehend the truth of the universe and existence. A limited, physical mind like the human brain (the hole) cannot possible fit the vastness of truth and existence (the sea) in it.
Not exactly.

The human brain can fit the vastness of truth and existence in it, but only when you have the grace of God to do so.

The Trinity is a Mystery simply because God has not revealed the truth to us yet. But when he reveals it, it will make sense.

Like for example Jesus said he would tear down the temple and rebuild it in 3 days. People believed he was nuts.

But they did not realize that the Body of Christ was the true temple of God and he was to die and resurrect on the 3rd day.

Like the Apostles when Jesus left they knew nothing. they were in the upper room, scared etc. Until the Holy Spirit came and revealed the truth to them

People thinks that it, no more Holy Spirit, Thats not it. There is no difference between the Holy Spirit leading the Pope of Peter then the Pope of today.

When truth has to be revealed, and when God feels we can accept it, it will come through the Holy Spirit to the Church and be revealed.

If God wanted us to understand the mystery of the Holy Spirit right this second, it would be revealed right this second though the Church.
 
As regards the phenomena attributed, to the gods, like Asclepius among the Greeks, or to men who were deified, like Apollonius of Tyana, they were not genuine miracles. In the first place, historical evidence for the cures and wonders reported is at a minimum. Documents are scarce and centuries removed from the time of the supposed events; and the whole context is so fantastic that any part of the narrative is immediately suspect. But even granting the substantial historicity of the pagan phenomena, the question still remains whether they really transcended the powers of nature and, if so, whether by a special intervention of God or through the operation of some malignant spiritual power. St. Augustine, summarizing two centuries of patristic evidence admits that some of these events seem to transcend nature, but he denies they could possibly come from God. “The end for which the (pagan) prodigies are wrought,” distinguishes them from the true miracles of the Gospel. “For these prodigies commend the worship of a plurality of gods, who deserve worship the less the more they demand it.” But the miracles of Christ “commend the worship of the one true God.” (7) The marvels of paganism, therefore, are either to be dismissed as poetical fancy and fraud, or admitted to have happened through the agency of a preternatural power that is hostile to God.

Father John A Hardon Archives
therealpresence.org/archives/archives.htm
 
St. Augustine, summarizing two centuries of patristic evidence admits that some of these events seem to transcend nature, but he denies they could possibly come from God. “The end for which the (pagan) prodigies are wrought,” distinguishes them from the true miracles of the Gospel. “For these prodigies commend the worship of a plurality of gods, who deserve worship the less the more they demand it.” But the miracles of Christ “commend the worship of the one true God.” (7) The marvels of paganism, therefore, are either to be dismissed as poetical fancy and fraud, or admitted to have happened through the agency of a preternatural power that is hostile to God.

Father John A Hardon Archives
therealpresence.org/archives/archives.htm
Someone writing in bias for one religion against another is not evidence of being correct or interpreting the other correctly. One could take the two religions, swap places, and it would be Christianity “proven” to be fallacious with a comparably negating argument.
 
Someone writing in bias for one religion against another is not evidence of being correct or interpreting the other correctly. One could take the two religions, swap places, and it would be Christianity “proven” to be fallacious with a comparably negating argument.
That was what I once thought, at least until I discovered the miracle of Fatima. It is empirically undeniable. Nothing even close to something like that in other religions, not that I am saying anything negative about other religions. Never!
 
Okay, then just curious what sets them apart from oneself. I mean why not just worship oneself?

I mean from a Catholic view God is perfect and very powerful and very much perfect. The reason he has to be perfect is because thats what sets him apart from us. He is who we strive to be like. Although we can never be him, he is our example to follow.

He is purely human and divine.

But to worship an imperfect god who has faults like everyone else. Why?
Good question. 👍
 
Another way of describing the “Is All” is with the analogy of a diamond.

The one creator force of the universe, what many call God, capital G, can be seen as a diamond. Each facet of the diamond is a particular aspect of God which, in paganism and other non-Christian religions, are called gods, small g, or deities.

For instance, God creates, God sustains, God can destroy, God can forgive, God can love, God can punish, etc.

(Stay with me on this, Catholics, LOL. 😉 )

Each facet has been called by many names, by other cultures. For instance, the aspect of God that loves is called Krishna in Hinduism, Venus to the Romans, Aphrodite to the Greeks, Hathor to the Egyptians, Aine to celtic/Irish pagans, Jesus to the Christians, and on and on.

The aspect of God that controls the sky or some part of the weather is called Vayu in Hindusim, Amun to the Egyptians, Taranis to celtic pagans, Apollo to the Greeks, Tianquiztli to the Aztecs, and on and on.

Not every single pagan or non-Christian sees it in exactly this way, but it is a common method of explaining what the difference is between God capital G the One God, and gods small g aka deities.

I myself believe in one God (wow, I’m a monotheist), of which a spark is present in all of creation (panentheist), and has many different roles or aspects in the universe, and which I recognize are called different names by diferent cultures.

I hope this is helpful.
Well, the one God is either the holy Trinity or what you are suggesting. I suppose we will all find out one day. 🤷
 
That was what I once thought, at least until I discovered the miracle of Fatima. It is empirically undeniable. Nothing even close to something like that in other religions, not that I am saying anything negative about other religions. Never!
I was referring to the comments you cited, not your own. 🙂

Empirically undeniable? I think believers hold it to be true but there will be atheists (not in the anti-religious sense, but simply meaning of the “non-believing” in general) who would say otherwise. How do you know for certain other religions have not had anything remotely comparable?
 
As regards the phenomena attributed, to the gods, like Asclepius among the Greeks, or to men who were deified, like Apollonius of Tyana, they were not genuine miracles. In the first place, historical evidence for the cures and wonders reported is at a minimum. Documents are scarce and centuries removed from the time of the supposed events; and the whole context is so fantastic that any part of the narrative is immediately suspect. But even granting the substantial historicity of the pagan phenomena, the question still remains whether they really transcended the powers of nature and, if so, whether by a special intervention of God or through the operation of some malignant spiritual power. St. Augustine, summarizing two centuries of patristic evidence admits that some of these events seem to transcend nature, but he denies they could possibly come from God. “The end for which the (pagan) prodigies are wrought,” distinguishes them from the true miracles of the Gospel. “For these prodigies commend the worship of a plurality of gods, who deserve worship the less the more they demand it.” But the miracles of Christ “commend the worship of the one true God.” (7) The marvels of paganism, therefore, are either to be dismissed as poetical fancy and fraud, or admitted to have happened through the agency of a preternatural power that is hostile to God.

Father John A Hardon Archives
therealpresence.org/archives/archives.htm
I think the christian god is pretty verbal in his demands for worship. its either his way or a firey pit for eternity. Thats quite a bit more demanding and severe than other religions.
 
I was referring to the comments you cited, not your own. 🙂

Empirically undeniable? I think believers hold it to be true but there will be atheists (not in the anti-religious sense, but simply meaning of the “non-believing” in general) who would say otherwise. How do you know for certain other religions have not had anything remotely comparable?
I have been searching and asking other people of other religious beliefs and no one mentions anything. Do you know of any? I sure would like to investigate them!🙂 it doesn’t even have to be as obvious as the miracle of Fatima. 👍
 
I think the christian god is pretty verbal in his demands for worship. its either his way or a firey pit for eternity. Thats quite a bit more demanding and severe than other religions.
Well, at least I have a better understanding as to why you reject Christianity. The is more to God than that…🙂
 
Well, at least I have a better understanding as to why you reject Christianity. The is more to God than that…🙂
Lol no thats not why I left, im just pointing out some hypocrisy. although I do think the christian idea of afterlife is a little… unrealistic. Why would satan seek to punish those who aid him, really.
 
Lol no thats not why I left, im just pointing out some hypocrisy. although I do think the christian idea of afterlife is a little… unrealistic. Why would satan seek to punish those who aid him, really.
Obviously I do not know for sure. It is the Christian belief that Satan is confined to hell (total separation from the creator for all eternity). God via Jesus the Messiah, placed humans above the fallen angels e.g. Satan, and Satan probably is not too happy about that. God revealed to Satan that someday a human being (Messiah) would bring Satan and his kingdom down - total annihilation, so it is reasonable to conclude, from that moment on, Satan would seek to destroy the Messiah as soon as he found out who that human was, as well as all those that God was granting eternal life in God’s heavenly Kingdom i.e. the less powerful human race would actually possess authority and rule over the fallen angels, which includes Satan, their king. Perhaps that is why Satan’s anger turned into absolute and unconditional hatred of God and all those who will take the place of Satan and the rest of the fallen angels. Moreover, God is pure love, and the total absence of pure love (God’s grace - beatific vision), leaves one with the total opposite. Justice and mercy are attributes of God, as well your deities - right?
 
I think the christian god is pretty verbal in his demands for worship. its either his way or a firey pit for eternity. Thats quite a bit more demanding and severe than other religions.
And what is wrong with following God’s way? A call to love unconditionally, as much as possible, sounds pretty cool to me. :shrug:Perhaps it is the part about picking up one’s cross and following Jesus, that rubs you the wrong way? Hell is pretty easy to avoid if one simply strives, to the best of their abilities, to love, forgive and believe that Jesus is their Savior. Pretty uncomplicated if you ask me. What exactly do you not like about Jesus and His teachings? I won’t derail the thread. Just curious if what you believe is in fact what Jesus teaches via His Church.
 
I think the christian god is pretty verbal in his demands for worship. its either his way or a firey pit for eternity. Thats quite a bit more demanding and severe than other religions.
you misunderstand the offer. God asks for our love and desires to share his love with us. But he has given us Free will in order for this to work without his forcing it on us. If we develop a loving relationship with God by following his commandments which all seem to be for our own good and looking out for our best interests we will die and be with him.

If we choose to not love God but to love ourselves and put ourselves above all else this too will be given to us. But of course that realization will come after having experienced the beatific vision. I can’t imagine a more horrible eternal existence than to have stood in the presence of God and then to be shut away from him forever.

God’s love is a gift. He won’t force anyone to take it. But if you refuse the gift then it is your choice, yours alone. For me the fear of hell isn’t fire, physical torture or pain it would the eternal longing for something never attainable. So I work as hard as I can to love the way God says we are to love. I am living this life for the next.
 
you misunderstand the offer. God asks for our love and desires to share his love with us. But he has given us Free will in order for this to work without his forcing it on us. If we develop a loving relationship with God by following his commandments which all seem to be for our own good and looking out for our best interests we will die and be with him.

If we choose to not love God but to love ourselves and put ourselves above all else this too will be given to us. But of course that realization will come after having experienced the beatific vision. I can’t imagine a more horrible eternal existence than to have stood in the presence of God and then to be shut away from him forever.

God’s love is a gift. He won’t force anyone to take it. But if you refuse the gift then it is your choice, yours alone. For me the fear of hell isn’t fire, physical torture or pain it would the eternal longing for something never attainable. So I work as hard as I can to love the way God says we are to love. I am living this life for the next.
Well put, especially that last part. 👍👍👍
 
So, seeing as there are a couple other threads thrown up by people of various faiths for questions on their religion i figured id do it too.

“Ask a Pagan” is a very broad term though and Paganism is not itself a religion but a blanket term for many who form a sort of community. In addition, various Pagan faiths are very eclectic and there is no Bible or Catechism to outline beliefs, but I have a good general knowledge of paganism (and the occult sense I know the questions are coming) and I’ll do my best to answer any questions.

I was raised catholic and went k-12 in the catholic school system, learned catholic doctrine and apologetics, and understand Catholicisms teachings pretty well. So I look forward to any questions you may have or discussions that may come.

Stay classy Catholics 👍
Ancient human beings considered the natural forces such as sun, moon, wind , water etc which are beyond their control as Gods. These type of faith is known as animism. Bible does not calls this as evil. They are searching for God through his creations. Bible only asks a question, why they cannot find its creator?. If his creations are powerful, then imagine how much powerful is its creator?.

" Yes, naturally stupid are all who are unaware of God, and who, from good things seen, have not been able to discover Him-who-is, or, by studying the works, have not recognised the Artificer.

Fire, however, or wind, or the swift air, the sphere of the stars, impetuous water, heaven’s lamps, are what they have held to be the gods who govern the world.

If, charmed by their beauty, they have taken these for gods, let them know how much the Master of these excels them, since he was the very source of beauty that created them.

And if they have been impressed by their power and energy, let them deduce from these how much mightier is he that has formed them,

since through the grandeur and beauty of the creatures we may, by analogy, contemplate their Author.

Small blame, however, attaches to them, for perhaps they go astray only in their search for God and their eagerness to find him;

familiar with his works, they investigate them and fall victim to appearances, seeing so much beauty.

But even so, they have no excuse:

if they are capable of acquiring enough knowledge to be able to investigate the world, how have they been so slow to find its Master? (Wisdom-13:1-9)

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Paganism is deception.Paganism is evil. It is a deception.It is different from Animism. When human beings started considering these natural forces as personified Gods and started writing myths and stories about these, Paganism originated. In paganism all natural forces are personified Gods. Apart from that there will be some imaginary Gods , who created these natural forces.In most pagan mythologies , these natural forces are secondary Gods , who servies Pagan Gods. That is the importance of True God is taken away and given to imaginary Gods. That’s why bible considers it as evil. It is an idol (obstacle ) before humanity which stops human beings to search for true God.

"Accursed the man-made idol, yes, it and its maker, he for having made it, and it because, though perishable, it has been called god.

For God holds the godless and his godlessness in equal hatred;

both work and workman will alike be punished.

Hence even the idols of the nations will have a visitation since, in God’s creation, they have become an abomination, a scandal for human souls, a snare for the feet of the foolish.

The idea of making idols was the origin of fornication, their discovery corrupted life.

They did not exist at the beginning, they will not exist for ever;

human vanity brought them into the world, and a quick end is therefore reserved for them. (Wisdom 14: 8-14)

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"And this became a snare for life: that people, whether enslaved by misfortune or by tyranny, should have conferred the ineffable Name on sticks and stones.

It is not enough, however, for them to have such misconceptions about God; for, living in the fierce warfare of ignorance, they call these terrible evils peace.

With their child-murdering rites, their occult mysteries, or their frenzied orgies with outlandish customs,

they no longer retain any purity in their lives or their marriages, one treacherously murdering another or wronging him by adultery.

Everywhere a welter of blood and murder, theft and fraud, corruption, treachery, riot, perjury,

disturbance of decent people, forgetfulness of favours, pollution of souls, sins against nature, disorder in marriage, adultery and debauchery.

For the worship of idols with no name is the beginning, cause, and end of every evil.

For these people either carry their merrymaking to the point of frenzy, or they prophesy what is not true, or they live wicked lives, or they perjure themselves without hesitation;

since they put their trust in lifeless idols they do not reckon their false oaths can harm them.

But they will be justly punished for this double crime: for degrading the concept of God by adhering to idols; and for wickedly perjuring themselves in contempt for what is holy.

For it is not the power of the things by which they swear but the punishment reserved for sinners that always follows the offences of wicked people.

Wisdom 14: 21-31
 
I think the christian god is pretty verbal in his demands for worship. its either his way or a firey pit for eternity. Thats quite a bit more demanding and severe than other religions.
EXACTLY. Believe or burn for all eternity. What I always want to know is, how can this God of the Bible be a completely loving God, to such a degree that many say that God is love??? Telling creation to worship or burn for all eternity is not love, it’s jealousy. Telling a man to sacrifice his own son and then changing his mind at the last minute when he saw the guy was about to do it is…mind-boggling, at the very least. A God that killed every inhabitant of the world except for some people and animals on an ark, mainly because HE screwed up and didn’t make things they way he should have, is certainly NOT a God of love.

Christianity is SO confusing and, to so many of us pagans, downright crazy.
 
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