Ask a Pagan

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What?! You mean you won’t ally with the Bears of Chicago in their persistent battle against the Viking forces of Green Bay? 😛
Most certainly not! Many times have I stood to defend that glorious fortes of Lambeustadt against the furious invaders from Minnesota and Chicagoland. Hail to Lombardi! haha!
 
It sounds like you just like the mythology and imagery of the old Germanic gods. It doesn’t sound like you worship them, or believe in their afterlife, or pray for their help or give them thanks.

I like Norse mythology too, being part Norwegian, but I sure don’t worship Odin or Freya or any of the others!
I certainly believe in their existence and revere them, and most certainly believe in Valhalla, but I dont believe I should ask for their help unless it is sorely needed.
 
I certainly believe in their existence and revere them, and most certainly believe in Valhalla, but I dont believe I should ask for their help unless it is sorely needed.
Well at least you picked the best pagan gods of all!
 
I certainly believe in their existence and revere them, and most certainly believe in Valhalla, but I dont believe I should ask for their help unless it is sorely needed.
In your belief system, is there anything that you have conformed your beliefs to because a deity has revealed this to be true, or do the deities you worship happen to have the same beliefs/morals that you do?
 
So dear friend,

Did you not learn anything or have you just abandoned what you learned?

As a pagan do you believe god, heaven and hell are real?
I know quite a bit about Catholicism and apologetics, I just don’t agree with it.

I believe in many gods who make up the one ultimate GOD, but not god in the christian sense as Jesus Christ. As for Heaven, I believe in Valhalla, and Helhiem, which is nothing like Christian Hell.
 
I know quite a bit about Catholicism and apologetics, I just don’t agree with it.
I apologise if you have already answered this, but what did you disagree about?
I believe in many gods who make up the one ultimate GOD, but not god in the christian sense as Jesus Christ. As for Heaven, I believe in Valhalla, and Helhiem, which is nothing like Christian Hell.
  1. How do you know these Gods were not made up?
  2. What is it that pleases these Gods of yours?
Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I apologise if you have already answered this, but what did you disagree about?
  1. How do you know these Gods were not made up?
  2. What is it that pleases these Gods of yours?
Thank you for reading
Josh
I don’t believe the christian view of god. That it is an omnipotent deity who created us in his image, gave us dominion over the earth, and that we are some how fallen.

The question “is your diety made up” can be posed to any faith, there is no empirical evidence to prove any god is real. That’s why its faith. But I believe most deities are real, just faces of god.

Respect for them, living an honorable life, proving ones courage. Cowardice, oath-breaking, lying, and backstabbing are the sort of thing that is displeasing to the gods.
 
I don’t believe the christian view of god. That it is an omnipotent deity who created us in his image, gave us dominion over the earth, and that we are some how fallen.

The question “is your diety made up” can be posed to any faith, there is no empirical evidence to prove any god is real. That’s why its faith. But I believe most deities are real, just faces of god.

Respect for them, living an honorable life, proving ones courage. Cowardice, oath-breaking, lying, and backstabbing are the sort of thing that is displeasing to the gods.
There’s proof one is real. He was seen by hundreds after having risen again and the earliest followers went to their death upholding the truth!

A nice quote putting it succinctly:
“I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world-and they couldn’t keep a lie for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible.”
― Charles Colson
 
There’s proof one is real. He was seen by hundreds after having risen again and the earliest followers went to their death upholding the truth!

A nice quote putting it succinctly:
“I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world-and they couldn’t keep a lie for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible.”
― Charles Colson
👍
I don’t believe the christian view of god. That it is an omnipotent deity who created us in his image, gave us dominion over the earth, and that we are some how fallen.
Okay.
The question “is your diety made up” can be posed to any faith, there is no empirical evidence to prove any god is real. That’s why its faith. But I believe most deities are real, just faces of god.
There is no absolute proof, but there is definately conclusive proof. What gives you reason for believeing paganism to be true yet christianity to be false? what conclusive proof have you found to lead you this way?
Respect for them, living an honorable life, proving ones courage. Cowardice, oath-breaking, lying, and backstabbing are the sort of thing that is displeasing to the gods.
Honor is very subjective, one mans honor may be another mans shame.

Courage in what? would your Gods be pleased if you showed courage in kamikaze for a random cause?
 
👍

Okay.

There is no absolute proof, but there is definately conclusive proof. What gives you reason for believeing paganism to be true yet christianity to be false? what conclusive proof have you found to lead you this way?

Honor is very subjective, one mans honor may be another mans shame.

Courage in what? would your Gods be pleased if you showed courage in kamikaze for a random cause?
None, and i’m not here to try and disprove it, but the god of the bible isn’t very consistent, claiming to be a god of love and peace yet at times commanding the destruction of entire peoples, like the sack of Jericho. I simply don’t believe that a Jewish prophet was the son of a single all powerful deity who despite his power had to sacrifice his son so we could all be saved from eternal damnation for our ancestors disobedience.

You re correct, honor is very subjective, but because this religion was part of Germanic culture (and its influence is still found in it today) it defines honor on those lines.

Courage in life and especially battle. A good Germanic warrior should not fear death, but not seek it out either. To die in battle, fitting hard to the last breath is the greatest honor and way to please the gods, but being stupid is not.

the story goes…
“A group of Vikings were captured by the Swedes, and were to be executed. The first was held by the hair and had his neck stretched out. The man smiled, said he would soon be in Valhalla, and has his head cut cleanly off by the swing of the executioners axe. The second man was held likewise, but as the executioners axe fell he pulled back the the axe took of the hands of the man holding him. The Swedish king laughed, applauded the mans determination and wit, and sent him on his way a free man.”

The second man was the one who would have pleased the gods, he did not give up and would have fought to the death. That is the kind of stuff that earns a place in Valhalla.
 
There’s proof one is real. He was seen by hundreds after having risen again and the earliest followers went to their death upholding the truth!
With all due respect, there have been martyrs in probably every religion. Dying for a belief means the martyr sincerely believed it, it doesn’t establish the truth of the belief. Look at all the martyrs in Islam.

I am a panentheistic pagan and also an ex-catholic. The more I studied Christianity, the less it made sense to me, until finally I had to set it aside. There is not one, non-Christian, first-hand account of Jesus that was written while he was alive. Paul didn’t know Jesus while he was alive. We don’t even know who wrote the gospels, and the ‘story’ was changed over time. Look at the difference between Mark and John. In my opinion, these changes occurred because Jesus’ prophecy of returning in their generation failed. Just like the end-time “prophets” of today, it has to be explained why the prophecy failed, and, just like today, the change of story is perfectly fine with the followers. I personally believe Jesus was a failed end-time prophet who told people to repent, the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. He taught people specifically how to repent. He shook up the wrong group of people, and was eventually put to death.

I don’t believe in original sin, I don’t believe in a burning hell, and I don’t believe any other of the myriad ideas that were voted on and decided upon hundreds of years after Jesus died.

Honestly, and I say this all the time and have always said it: If God actually came down to earth, don’t you think there would be absolutely NO QUESTION about it??? What is the point of God coming here and then keeping it a secret to 99% of earth’s inhabitants, and then just letting group of not-all-that-bright guys pass on the info. Makes no sense at all.

Like someone else said in this thread, I’m not buying what you’re trying to sell, LOL.
 
There’s proof one is real. He was seen by hundreds after having risen again and the earliest followers went to their death upholding the truth!

A nice quote putting it succinctly:
“I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world-and they couldn’t keep a lie for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible.”
― Charles Colson
Personally i believe that there was some trickery preformed in Jesus’s “resurection” preformed either before or after the crucifixion. And men have gone to their deaths for other faiths as well, men of other faiths have preformed miracles. While I respect a martyr of any faith (and no I don’t consider suicide bombers martyrs) I don’t believe martyrdom makes ones faith any more believable.

That’s a very good Watergate quote though, although ill say this,12 American politicians have alot less conviction than 12 ancient Jewish holy men.
 
None, and i’m not here to try and disprove it, but the god of the bible isn’t very consistent, claiming to be a god of love and peace yet at times commanding the destruction of entire peoples, like the sack of Jericho.
I don’t know if you’re a parent or not, but what you say could be applied to an analogy of a 5 year old crying at her pediatrician’s office, “You claim to be a parent of love yet you commanded this nurse to stick me with 5 needles!”

From her point of view you’re not very loving are you?

Yet from your POV, you see the bigger picture, right?
 
With all due respect, there have been martyrs in probably every religion. Dying for a belief means the martyr sincerely believed it, it doesn’t establish the truth of the belief. Look at all the martyrs in Islam.

I am a panentheistic pagan and also an ex-catholic. The more I studied Christianity, the less it made sense to me, until finally I had to set it aside. There is not one, non-Christian, first-hand account of Jesus that was written while he was alive. Paul didn’t know Jesus while he was alive. We don’t even know who wrote the gospels, and the ‘story’ was changed over time. Look at the difference between Mark and John. In my opinion, these changes occurred because Jesus’ prophecy of returning in their generation failed. Just like the end-time “prophets” of today, it has to be explained why the prophecy failed, and, just like today, the change of story is perfectly fine with the followers. I personally believe Jesus was a failed end-time prophet who told people to repent, the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. He taught people specifically how to repent. He shook up the wrong group of people, and was eventually put to death.

I don’t believe in original sin, I don’t believe in a burning hell, and I don’t believe any other of the myriad ideas that were voted on and decided upon hundreds of years after Jesus died.

Honestly, and I say this all the time and have always said it: If God actually came down to earth, don’t you think there would be absolutely NO QUESTION about it??? What is the point of God coming here and then keeping it a secret to 99% of earth’s inhabitants, and then just letting group of not-all-that-bright guys pass on the info. Makes no sense at all.

Like someone else said in this thread, I’m not buying what you’re trying to sell, LOL.
I would agree with everything said. Although I do think alot of Catholic/Orthodox doctrine is a bit older than you give it credit for. Still, the longer I learned about Christianity the less I believed it. Especially the doctrines of the church on things such as animals and sex which have alwase struck me as… not making a whole lot of logical or realistic sense.

One thing that also struck me when I learned it was that Jesus meets at maximum one of the ancient Jewish criteria for being the Messiah. The Messiah the Jews were told to wait for and are still waiting for is said to be a warrior-king, and Jesus was certainly not a warrior.
 
Personally i believe that there was some trickery preformed in Jesus’s “resurection” preformed either before or after the crucifixion. And men have gone to their deaths for other faiths as well, men of other faiths have preformed miracles. While I respect a martyr of any faith (and no I don’t consider suicide bombers martyrs) I don’t believe martyrdom makes ones faith any more believable.

That’s a very good Watergate quote though, although ill say this,12 American politicians have alot less conviction than 12 ancient Jewish holy men.
2 Cor 5:10: And you will have the opportunity to ask Him how it was done in person one second after you take your last breath!
 
What do you think of a universalist idea to the world? in my personal opinion, while I do believe that Catholicism is the one true faith, all other religions do contain a portion of the divine truth in the form of different translations of the same lessons given to us by God and his angels.
 
I don’t know if you’re a parent or not, but what you say could be applied to an analogy of a 5 year old crying at her pediatrician’s office, “You claim to be a parent of love yet you commanded this nurse to stick me with 5 needles!”

From her point of view you’re not very loving are you?

Yet from your POV, you see the bigger picture, right?
Im sorry but are you comparing the murder of the women and children of Jericho to a child getting a shot? because those people are dead, and the dead have a tough time learning lessons.
 
What do you think of a universalist idea to the world? in my personal opinion, while I do believe that Catholicism is the one true faith, all other religions do contain a portion of the divine truth in the form of different translations of the same lessons given to us by God and his angels.
This is one of the reasons that I find Catholics, Orthodox, and Coptics to be by far the nicest and generally easiest to be around Christians. You are not like some of the Bible thumping evangelicals saying all other religions are the work of Satan to steal your children’s souls.

Personally I believe all religions besides those that are obviously man made lead to the ultimate divine, the “Is All”. The difference is the cultural context in which each religion reveals universal truth.
 
Im sorry but are you comparing the murder of the women and children of Jericho to a child getting a shot? because those people are dead, and the dead have a tough time learning lessons.
Yes. It’s an analogy, Skadi.

Take this very simple analogy:

Christmas tree : ornament :: Earlobe : earring.

Someone who has an inability to think in the abstract might take offense to the above analogy and state, “How dare you compare a majestic, splendid Christmas tree with a fleshy piece of cartilage!” but that would only demonstrate his inability to grasp analogies.

So you do understand how a 5 year old would think that his daddy was not very loving for giving him 5 shots, while the daddy is indeed loving him, right?
 
I don’t believe in original sin, I don’t believe in a burning hell, and I don’t believe any other of the myriad ideas that were voted on and decided upon hundreds of years after Jesus died.

Honestly, and I say this all the time and have always said it: If God actually came down to earth, don’t you think there would be absolutely NO QUESTION about it???
I read here all the time people who claim a knowledge of Scripture, theology and apologetics; usually because they’ve “been to X number of years of Catholic School”. Most prove by their comments they have a child like understanding appropriate to their schooling. If you are looking to grow deeper in the faith many of the answers in this thread will prove valuable.

I’m not selling anything. Those not chosen won’t believe in 2013 anymore than those who didn’t believe hearing Christ live. These things are really just for the benefit of these seeking deeper knowledge or looking to grow deeper.

From This Booklet
There is no way to explain the Bible’s ability to predict the future unless we see God as its Author. For example, the Old Testament contains more than three hundred references to the Messiah of Israel that were preciselyfulfilled by JesusChrist (Christ isthe Greek translation of the Hebrew word Messiah).

Peter Stoner, a scientist in the area of mathematical probabilities, said in his book Science Speaks that if we take just eight of the Old Testament prophecies Christ fulfilled, we find that the probability of their coming to pass is one in (Ten to the 17th power). He illustrates that staggering amount this way:

We take (Ten to the 17th power) silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas . They will cover all of the state two feet deep. Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly. . . . Blindfold a man and tell him he must pick up one silver dollar. . . . What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them come true in any one man. ( Chicago : Moody, 1963], 100-107)

And Jesus fulfilled hundreds more than just eight prophecies!
 
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