Ask a pentecostal.

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Jon_S said:
Lol. I’ve been trying to share those verses with you over and over. I guess it helps coming from a Protestant huh?😃
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It helps when someone gives you a YES or NO if you’re damned to hell if your not baptized, then gives an explination. You did not do that. You kept belittiling me and calling me a Bible twister.
 
KingJohn said:
It helps when someone gives you a YES or NO if you’re damned to hell if your not baptized, then gives an explination. You did not do that. You kept belittiling me and calling me a Bible twister.
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I can’t give a yes or no to that. I can share the Bible, and what the church teaches, I can urge obedience to Christ, but neither you, nor Ltwin, nor myself knows for certain who is saved until we meet him on that day and he says “welcome good and faithful servant”
 
Jon_S said:
Lol. I’ve been trying to share those verses with you over and over. I guess it helps coming from a Protestant huh?😃
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I have been noticing more of a focus on baptism in some parts of the Pentecostal movement. One of Hillsong’s newest songs is “Beneath the Waters (I Will Rise)” which is specifically about baptism:

This is my revelation
Christ Jesus crucified
Salvation through repentance
At the cross on which He died

Now here my absolution
Forgiveness for my sin
And I sink beneath the waters
That Christ was buried in

I will rise I will rise
As Christ was raised to life
Now in Him now in Him
I live

I stand a new creation
Baptised in blood and fire
No fear of condemnation
By faith I’m justified

I rise as You are risen
Declare Your rule and reign
My life confess Your Lordship
And glorify Your Name
Your word it stands eternal
Your kingdom knows no end
Your praise goes on forever
And on and on again

No power can stand against You
No curse assault Your throne
No one can steal Your glory
For it is Yours alone
I stand to sing Your praises
I stand to testify
For I was dead in my sin
But now I rise.
 
KingJohn said:
It helps when someone gives you a YES or NO if you’re damned to hell if your not baptized, then gives an explination. You did not do that. You kept belittiling me and calling me a Bible twister.
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I am sorry you felt belittled. I don’t believe I said anything belittling. In retrospect do you not see how the Greek was being twisted, at least by your sources? It is not belittling to call out scripture being twisted or other error. I call it out and present my case in a hope that you will see the necessity or at least value in following Christs commands.

This is personal for me. I was Evangelical/baptist my whole life. I was taught erroneous doctrine there. It became clearer and clearer as time went on that this was the case. Not because people were cruel or dishonest but because they had strayed from the Church and history and relied on men (pastors) and their own understanding. I have a deep passion for confronting that mentality so people like you can grow closer to Christ.
 
KingJohn said:
It helps when someone gives you a YES or NO if you’re damned to hell if your not baptized, then gives an explination. You did not do that. You kept belittiling me and calling me a Bible twister.
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Catholics do believe in a “baptism by desire” which is the idea that if a convert intends to be baptized but for reasons beyond their control never gets to (like dying before they can) then they are considered baptized and would not be damned.
 
ltwin said:
I have been noticing more of a focus on baptism in some parts of the Pentecostal movement. One of Hillsong’s newest songs is “Beneath the Waters (I Will Rise)” which is specifically about baptism:

This is my revelation
Christ Jesus crucified
Salvation through repentance
At the cross on which He died

Now here my absolution
Forgiveness for my sin
And I sink beneath the waters
That Christ was buried in

I will rise I will rise
As Christ was raised to life
Now in Him now in Him
I live

I stand a new creation
Baptised in blood and fire
No fear of condemnation
By faith I’m justified

I rise as You are risen
Declare Your rule and reign
My life confess Your Lordship
And glorify Your Name
Your word it stands eternal
Your kingdom knows no end
Your praise goes on forever
And on and on again

No power can stand against You
No curse assault Your throne
No one can steal Your glory
For it is Yours alone
I stand to sing Your praises
I stand to testify
For I was dead in my sin
But now I rise.
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I love listening to Hillsong! I can’t make it through “none but Jesus” without crying.

Thanks for sharing.
 
ltwin said:
Catholics do believe in a “baptism by desire” which is the idea that if a convert intends to be baptized but for reasons beyond their control never gets to (like dying before they can) then they are considered baptized and would not be damned.
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Good point. Thanks!

Evangelicals are very focused on saying they are saved and others are damned. It is good practice to show Christ to people rather than putting labels we have no authority to place. Maybe that seemed wishy washy to king John understandably, but it is just best to share the scripture/doctrine and encourage discipleship.

Easy Peasy Christianity is convenient but not what Christ taught. He taught something much less american and much more radical!
 
KingJohn said:
I didn’t. But when people say “your ways are unscriptural” (Jon said something like that) then I get defensive. I was forced into this poistion.
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Yet, it’s acceptable for you to tell Catholics some of their doctrines are non biblical? I see…:rolleyes:
 
KingJohn said:
I’m sorry, but I do not agree when the Apostles of your Church say Baptism is required for salvation.

It’s important, yes. But I simply do not agree. I’ve laid the Pentecostal poistion on Salvation out, you’ve laid your poistion in the word of man out. Unless you have Jesus himself saying in the Bible that Baptism is a 100% necessity to getting into his kingdom, then I do not believe it’s a 100% necessity.
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And of course you can quote the authority behind your interpretation of the scriptures on Baptism?
 
KingJohn said:
I find scriptures that SEEM to contradict what Jesus said problematic, so I discern them since nothing Jesus has said or says can be contradicted.
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Based on whose interpretations? Scriptures don’t contradict. Private interpretations do.
 
ltwin said:
Catholics do believe in a “baptism by desire” which is the idea that if a convert intends to be baptized but for reasons beyond their control never gets to (like dying before they can) then they are considered baptized and would not be damned.
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That baptism of desire kept me going in RCIA since the classes were held at night and I have a really bad night vision problem.

l was finally really baptized at Easter Vigil 2008 which meant that if I had died that night ~ Look out Heaven, here I come. 😃

All my sins washed away, an entirely new sin free person. How awesome is that?! Of course that probably lasted 20 minutes or so, considering. 😃
 
KingJohn said:
I personally believe it was 33 A.D., the day of the pentecost. However, the movements really didn’t start til the 1900s.
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Is there an explanation within the Pentecostal church as to why the movement died between Pentecost and 1900?
 
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