Ask a pentecostal.

[MJCamp]

Why do pentecostals reject the other 7 books of the bible?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Not so sure this is ‘mainstream’ Pentecostal. Pentecostals believe in the inerrancy of scriptures. That would mean, NO contradictions.

 

[MJCamp]

Have u ever been outside the United States to worship? What do you do if you attend worship where language barriers exist? How do you interpret the scriptural reading when language barriers exist?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The website KingJohn keeps referring us to states:

We believe the Bible, comprised of the Old and New Testaments, to be the inspired, infallible, and authoritative Word of God (Matthew 5:18; 2 Timothy 3:16-17). In faith we hold the Bible to be inerrant in the original writings, God-breathed, and the complete and final authority for faith and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17). While still using the individual writing styles of the human authors, the Holy Spirit perfectly guided them to ensure they wrote precisely what He wanted written, without error or omission (2 Peter 1:21).

No mention of contradictions?

 

[KingJohn]

Is there an explanation within the Pentecostal church as to why the movement died between Pentecost and 1900?

The movement wasn’t even alive there. I believe it set the stage for Pentacostalism.

The earliest recorded “Pentecostal” movement happened in the 1900s and exploded up until the 1920s.

 

[KingJohn]

The website KingJohn keeps referring us to states:

No mention of contradictions?

That, BTW, is not a Pentecostal website my friend…

The website even speaks out against speaking in tounges. They just have good points on somethings.

 

[Jon_S_1]

The movement wasn’t even alive there. I believe it set the stage for Pentacostalism.

The earliest recorded “Pentecostal” movement happened in the 1900s and exploded up until the 1920s.

If that’s the case, which I agree it is? How do we know Pentecostalism is the best Christian Practice?

Why not Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Evangelical, etc. or even Mormonism or Jehovah’s Witness for example?

In short why do you choose Pentecostal over one of these very different denominations?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That, BTW, is not a Pentecostal website my friend…

The website even speaks out against speaking in tounges. They just have good points on somethings.

So if it sounds good to you it’s authoritative and good to go, no matter the source?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Question: “What is the Pentecostal Church (Pentecostalism) and what do Pentecostals believe?”

Answer: Pentecostalism is a fairly modern movement within Christianity that can be traced back to the Holiness movement in the Methodist Church. A major focus of Pentecostal churches is Holy Spirit baptism as evidenced by speaking in tongues. There are approximately 170 different denominations that identify themselves as Pentecostal.

Toward the end of the 19th century, there was a dramatic rise in religious fervor as various groups anticipated the end of history and the return of Christ in 1900. Much of this fervor was driven by the revival meetings held by those in the Holiness movement, and there were occasional reports of people speaking in tongues. The first widespread use of tongues was at a revival in Topeka, Kansas, in January 1900, led by Charles Parham. Agnes Ozman, a Methodist, began to speak in tongues, and others in the meeting eventually followed suit. In 1906, a series of revival meetings on Azusa Street in Los Angeles led to a widespread experience of tongues-speaking, which spread to many parts of the country. The meetings were led by William Seymour, one of Charles Parham’s students. Parham and Seymour eventually parted ways, because Parham believed many of the manifestations of Azusa Street were of the flesh, or perhaps even demonic. By 1909, Seymour had excluded all but African-Americans from holding office in the mission, and the ministry eventually faded into history.

Though the Azusa Street mission had a brief life, its impact on the Pentecostal movement has been a lasting one. Many new churches and missions were founded across America which carried the new emphasis on seeking the baptism of the Spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues. Today, there are over 200,000,000 denominational Pentecostals and another 200,000,000 who identify themselves as Pentecostal or charismatic in mainline churches.

There are three main divisions within the Pentecostal movement. The original group which came out of the Holiness churches (Methodist and Nazarene), sees three progressive steps in the life of a believer which indicate growth and blessing. The first step is justification, which is the forgiveness of sins that comes from putting faith in Jesus Christ. The second step is sanctification, or the second blessing, which was first taught by John Wesley in his “A Plain Account of Christian Perfection” (1766). The essence of this doctrine is an inner purity of heart and an infusion of power, whereby the believer no longer practices sin. This is sometimes followed by the third step, the “baptism of the Spirit,” as evidenced by speaking in tongues or other signs. The Church of God in Christ and the Church of God, Cleveland, Tennessee, are two major denominations in this group.

The second division is comprised of those who came out of a Baptist background, but were heavily influenced by the Holiness revivals of the late 1800s. The Assemblies of God was founded in 1914 under the leadership of Eudorus N. Bell, who had been a Southern Baptist pastor. The key difference in doctrine for this group is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is available for anyone, regardless of attaining sanctification.

The third division is the Oneness Pentecostals. At the meeting which formed the Church of God in Christ (1914), there was intense debate over Trinitarian doctrine. While the majority of Holiness believers held to the traditional belief in the Trinity, there was a growing group which held to a modalist belief and affirmed that baptism should be done in Jesus’ name only. Another tenet of this group is the necessity of speaking in tongues as evidence of salvation. This group was to form the United Pentecostal Church and the Apostolic Pentecostal Church, among others.

What are we to make of this movement? The early Holiness believers recognized that Christianity ought to result in visible changes in a person’s life. The focus of many early prayer meetings was to “throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles” (Hebrews 12:1). These earnest believers wanted to run their race faithfully and were seeking God’s help to do so. As that earnestness gave way to emotional religious fervor, doctrines were developed to explain and support the emotions and experiences. For many today, the emphasis is on the excitement, the experience, or the new word of prophecy. Some of the questionable foundations laid by John Wesley (e.g., a second blessing of perfection) paved the way for later Pentecostal doctrines of new works of the Spirit. Many Pentecostals allow experience to trump Scriptural teaching and will twist Scripture to support what they “know by experience.” Jesus Himself warned of false teachers who spoke of mighty spiritual experiences in Matthew 7:22-23: “Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” Peter affirmed the value of Scripture over experience when he said, “We also have a more sure Word of prophecy, to which you do well to take heed, as to a light that shines in a dark place…” (2 Peter 1:19).

 

[Isaiah45_9]

ON basis of scripture? Yes. It’s all about Jesus.

On all basis, KingJohn.

I don’t recall the Pentecostal denomination when Jesus and the Apostles establish the Church. The day of Pentecost, that’s the Catholic Church.

So here you are knowing that Pentecostals are a man made denomination and on the other thread (Why do protestants believe in Bible only?) you were all against man:

Post 293, Post 301, Post 322

You say it’s all about Jesus, and you have that right. However, you have made a human choice of a man made denomination that was absent for more than 1,800 years of Christian History.

How can you reconcile your beliefs with Pentecostalism, and more: How can you reconcile this with everything that Jesus said?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

On all basis, KingJohn.

I don’t recall the Pentecostal denomination when Jesus and the Apostles establish the Church. The day of Pentecost, that’s the Catholic Church.

So here you are knowing that Pentecostals are a man made denomination and on the other thread (Why do protestants believe in Bible only?) you were all against man:

Post 293, Post 301, Post 322

You say it’s all about Jesus, and you have that right. However, you have made a human choice of a man made denomination that was absent for more than 1,800 years of Christian History.

How can you reconcile your beliefs with Pentecostalism, and more: How can you reconcile this with everything that Jesus said?

Thanks for those links. On this thread he said there are contradictions in the scriptures. On one of those threads he said:

I wasn’t going for that, mate.

The Church is an earthly institution with the laws of Man. We don’t need to rely on humans for understanding, we can rely on his word.

Seems to contradict…

 

[cath4alltime]

I have read every page of this thread and the thread that Itwin started about this was much better done, he never presumed to tell Catholics that they were wrong. Itwin just gave information without any “I’m right and they are wrong” type of thing.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Thanks for those links. On this thread he said there are contradictions in the scriptures. On one of those threads he said:

Seems to contradict…

I believe the problem ultimately lies where one accepts a belief, before learning the Bible and history. It then becomes a game to conform scripture to the beliefs one already accepts. In my time in Evangelicalism it happened frequently, other times passages were just ignored. Finally when I began to see this I started the road to find truth, setting aside my preconceived ideas. If one is truly open to Christ’s truth then there is only one place that road leads. In my case the Catholic Church was the absolute last place I thought it would lead me to.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I believe the problem ultimately lies where one accepts a belief, before learning the Bible and history. It then becomes a game to conform scripture to the beliefs one already accepts. In my time in Evangelicalism it happened frequently, other times passages were just ignored. Finally when I began to see this I started the road to find truth, setting aside my preconceived ideas. If one is truly open to Christ’s truth then there is only one place that road leads. In my case the Catholic Church was the absolute last place I thought it would lead me to.

Our stories are very similar.

The scriptures led me to the Church. The early Church fathers confirmed the Catholic Church. Anytime I had questions, I’d pray…sometimes answers ‘popped’ before me in a matter of hours, sometimes a couple of days. Those answers came from reading, television, and a friend, of course I always considered answers to be prayers answered.

 

[KingJohn]

If that’s the case, which I agree it is? How do we know Pentecostalism is the best Christian Practice?

Why not Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Evangelical, etc. or even Mormonism or Jehovah’s Witness for example?

In short why do you choose Pentecostal over one of these very different denominations?

Oh dear, where do I start?

Mormonism:

Believe they’ll become gods and have there own planets when they die. Mormonism teaches non-biblical, non-christian things. Here’s quotes from Mormon writers and scriptures, then I’l put in the biblical scripture that contradicts that one.
*
God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333). *

Numbers 23:19** God is not a man**, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: has he said, and shall he not do it? or has he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
*

God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428). *

Jeremiah 23:24
Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord.

Proverbs 15:3

The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good.

He’s everywhere, not in one place.

*“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s…” (Doctrines and Covenants 130:22). *

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

*God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3). *

Refer to previous scriptures.
*
“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see,” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345). *

…Really?

“The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms . . . .” (Deuteronomy 33:27).

God is ETERNAL. He’s been here from the begining to the end, and will ALWAYS be here.

*After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354.) *

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Graven images can also be translated to idols.

Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded you, though you have not known me:

I’ve specified why I do not like Mormonism. Do you want me to get to you on other denominations?

 

[Miriam1947]

I believe the problem ultimately lies where one accepts a belief, before learning the Bible and history. It then becomes a game to conform scripture to the beliefs one already accepts. In my time in Evangelicalism it happened frequently, other times passages were just ignored. Finally when I began to see this I started the road to find truth, setting aside my preconceived ideas. If one is truly open to Christ’s truth then there is only one place that road leads. In my case the Catholic Church was the absolute last place I thought it would lead me to.

Many Petecostal converts to the Catholic Church say exactly the same thing.

 

[KingJohn]

Why are you guys still attacking me?

If you think Itwin did a better job, go to his thread. If you wish to continue scolding me because I will not be apart of your Church because it was the first one, then that sure is a way to get people to join the Church, isn’t it?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Why are you guys still attacking me?

If you think Itwin did a better job, go to his thread. If you wish to continue scolding me because I will not be apart of your Church because it was the first one, then that sure is a way to get people to join the Church, isn’t it?

No, KingJohn.

You are presenting things that are contradictory. We are pointing them out. By doing that, you have an opportunity to explain better, or understand better.

On all basis, KingJohn.

I don’t recall the Pentecostal denomination when Jesus and the Apostles establish the Church. The day of Pentecost, that’s the Catholic Church.

So here you are knowing that Pentecostals are a man made denomination and on the other thread (Why do protestants believe in Bible only?) you were all against man:

Post 293, Post 301, Post 322

You say it’s all about Jesus, and you have that right. However, you have made a human choice of a man made denomination that was absent for more than 1,800 years of Christian History.

How can you reconcile your beliefs with Pentecostalism, and more: How can you reconcile this with everything that Jesus said?

How do you reconcile the above?

 

[Jon_S_1]

Oh dear, where do I start?
. Do you want me to get to you on other denominations?

My friend you still do not see it. I do not really need an explanation of why you personally believe these other churches are in error. They believe you are in error, so who is right?

What I hoped you would see is your system of belief is based on you and the men in your church you submit to. It is no different than Mormons or anyone else. They all use the Bible and have their own interpretation. Mormons like to rely on an emotional experience called a “burning in the bosom” that they use to convince people they hold the truth. Once you give them that authority they can manipulate the scriptures enough to satisfy questions among their faithful. Your system is no different in structure.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

My friend you still do not see it. I do not really need an explanation of why you personally believe these other churches are in error. They believe you are in error, so who is right?

What I hoped you would see is your system of belief is based on you and the men in your church you submit to. It is no different than Mormons or anyone else. They all use the Bible and have their own interpretation. Mormons like to rely on an emotional experience called a “burning in the bosom” that they use to convince people they hold the truth. Once you give them that authority they can manipulate the scriptures enough to satisfy questions among their faithful. Your system is no different in structure.

Correct! Even the Devil quoted from Scriptures! To Jesus, of all people…