Ask about Catholic Charismatic Renewal

[RoyJr]

Do you think we all have all these gifts

It doesn’t matter what I “think” or anyone else for that matter,(which is the point most people can’t grasp - personal opinions mean nothing to God, you’re, my, their feelings don’t change His mind or His Truth), the Church has called all catholics to seek these gifts & use them. Why is that so hard to understand?

or you may have the gift of tongue but not healing, and others may have the gift of healing but not of tongue?

You quoted 1 Cor 12, why are you asking me for my personal opinion? I (unlike so many others) do not form my own personal opinions. Personal opinions = Protestantism.

 

[water]

It doesn’t matter what I “think” or anyone else for that matter,(which is the point most people can’t grasp - personal opinions mean nothing to God, you’re, my, their feelings don’t change His mind or His Truth), the Church has called all catholics to seek these gifts & use them. Why is that so hard to understand?

You quoted 1 Cor 12, why are you asking me for my personal opinion? I (unlike so many others) do not form my own personal opinions. Personal opinions = Protestantism.

I might use the wrong word, and you made your good point about what our personnal thought can be wrong.

Yes, I agree that we should seek these gifts. Let me rephrase my question. Does a person have all the gifts – especially the supernatural gifts? You don’t have to tell me what you think, but tell me what you have been told/taught.

Thanks!

 

[RoyJr]

Roy’s former daliance with satanism is no small irony. :ehh:

Personal attack #2 from you my thorn. God bless you.

FYI: St. Paul used to persecute Christians, having them thrown in prison & ultimately put to death. We know by Scripture that he stood by & watched as St. Stephen was martyred, (Acts 7:58), by our code of justice in the U.S. that would make him an Accessory to Murder.

Could YOU cut him some slack for his past? No? Then you reject half the New Testament because it was written by a former criminal. No wonder you’re such a thorn.

I left my life of sin 18 years ago, God received me back into the fold with open arms & a joyous heart. Was He wrong, do YOU think?

I was unaware that repentant sinners were not welcome on these boards. cries in pillow

 

[cyberwolf001]

Water,

St. Paul himself said tongues would decrease over the years. Further only two people at a time should be speaking in tongues during service. Also it was made clear not everyone gets all of the gifts in the same extent and we are to always pray for the higher gifts that do more to build up the church rather than the more miraculous gifts like tongues.

Always remember when it comes to the charisms tongues is at the VERY bottom. Right under interpretation of tongues. An if no one around can interpret what there saying your best bet is to make tracks.

 

[Mary_ann_R]

TO GROUP OF RENEWAL IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
Pope John Paul II​

CHARISMATIC RENEWAL IS GIFT TO THE CHURCH
On Thursday, 14 March, the Holy Father celebrated the 30th anniversary of the advent of the Charismatic Renewal in Italy when he received a delegation of members of this important ecclesial movement. In Italy the movement of Renewal in the Spirit has about 200,000 members in 1,800 communities or prayer groups. The Holy Father summed up the Charismatic Renewal in this wonderful way: “The Renewal in the Spirit can be considered a special gift of the Holy Spirit to the Church in our time. Born in the Church and for the Church, your movement is one in which, following the light of the Gospel, the members experience the living encounter with Jesus, fidelity to God in personal and community prayer, confident listening to his Word and a vital rediscovery of the Sacraments, not forgetting courage in trials and hope in hardship”.

1. In the final analysis, all your evangelizing activities tend to foster in the People of God constant growth in holiness. Indeed, holiness is the priority in every age, and therefore also in our own time. The Church and the world need saints, and we ourselves become holier the more we allow the Holy Spirit to configure us to Christ. This is the secret of the regenerating experience of the “outpouring of the Spirit”, a typical experience that defines the process of growth proposed for the members of your groups and communities. With all my heart I hope that Renewal in the Spirit may be a true “gymnasium” in the Church for prayer, asceticism, virtue and holiness.

In a special way continue to love and spread love for the prayer of praise, the form of prayer that recognizes more immediately that God is God; praises him for his own sake, gives him glory for who he is, long before thinking of what he does (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 2639).

In our time that is so hungry for hope, make the Holy Spirit known and loved. Help bring to life that “culture of Pentecost”, that alone can make fruitful the civilization of love and friendly coexistence among peoples. With fervent insistence, never tire of praying “Come Holy Spirit! Come! Come!”.

May the Blessed Mother of Christ and of the Church, the Virgin at prayer in the Upper Room, always be with you! May the Blessing I cordially impart to you, and to all the members of Renewal of the Holy Spirit, also go with you!

---

Taken from:
L’Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
20 March 2002, page 3
L’Osservatore Romano is the newspaper of the Holy See.
The Weekly Edition in English is published for the US by:

The Cathedral Foundation
L’Osservatore Romano English Edition
320 Cathedral St.
Baltimore, MD 21201​

Provided Courtesy of:
Eternal Word Television Network
5817 Old Leeds Road
Irondale, AL 35210
www.ewtn.com

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2CHARS.HTM

There are other toics of interest in this link:

ewtn.com/vlibrary/search2.asp

 

[RoyJr]

Does a person have all the gifts – especially the supernatural gifts? You don’t have to tell me what you think, but tell me what you have been told/taught.

Can 1 person have ALL the gifts? Does Jesus Christ count?

Do I know of a person that has all the gifts mentioned in 1 Cor 12? No.

Can a person have all the gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in 1 Cor 12? That decision’s up to the Holy Spirit, now isn’t it.

I do know of several people that have worked in more than 1 gift, and again that is all up to how God wants to work through the individual for “the buliding up of the one body”.

Now I’m sure you will re-quote the passage where St. Paul stated “one gift to one…another manifestation of the Spirit to another”. That was St. Paul’s experiences with the communities of which he was a part of. Did that mean that all communities were the same? Well, do we not have more than one RITE in the One Holy Catholic & Apostalic Church? Do all charisms have to be given one per christian? That’s God’s business, St. Paul saw that “one gift, one customer” was what was happening in his time. Does God not have the “right” (to use that american usage of the word) to give more than one to anyone He wishes? See Matt 25:14-30 The parable of the Talents

Now, if we still insist on “the Bibe says” as Protestants do - taking God’s word for the literal words written & not for the literal Truth, then I must refer to Matt18:8-9.

I’m not trying to upset anyone, or “preach at” you, but we all need to read the Decree on the Apostolate of the Laity if we are to be “soldiers for Christ” as the Holy Spirit enables us through the Sacrament of Confirmation and HIS charisms.

 

[RoyJr]

Water,

St. Paul himself said tongues would decrease over the years.

“they will cease”, not over the years (although they did, by the Churchs’ doing), but when all things come into fulfillment, the second coming of Christ.

Further only two people at a time should be speaking in tongues during service.

“Speaking in tongues” & praying or singing is not one in the same use of the gift.

Also it was made clear not everyone gets all of the gifts in the same extent

True

and we are to always pray for the higher gifts that do more to build up the church rather than the** more miraculous gifts like tongues.**

The Second Vatican Council reffered to “tongues” as the most “elementary” of the gifts. The 1988 revision of the document called tongues the most “ordinary”.

Always remember when it comes to the charisms tongues is at the VERY bottom. Right under interpretation of tongues.

Not exactly the point.
So, what’s the ruling on the gifts of Isaiah 11?
Is there a top 7 list?
Is one “greater” than the other in your opinion?

An if no one around can interpret what there saying your best bet is to make tracks.

No, not what St. Paul was saying at all. Again “speaking” in tongues is a from of the gift of prophesy & that message needs to be translated. I sing in tongues alot (yes, even as I minister at Mass ), do I need someone to translate what the Holy Spirit is singing through me? No.

 

[TOP]

I tend to make a distinction between the gifts of the Holy Spirit from charism’s. Is this correct by what the Church teaches? Tim

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

FYI: St. Paul used to persecute Christians, having them thrown in prison & ultimately put to death. We know by Scripture that he stood by & watched as St. Stephen was martyred, (Acts 7:58), by our code of justice in the U.S. that would make him an Accessory to Murder.

Could YOU cut him some slack for his past?

Roy, just helping you get down to earth. You claimed my posts were the work of Satan, remember? St. Paul never forgot or tried to minimize his transgressions. And, regarding his infirmities, he stopped praying for their ceasation and gave thanks for them as a source of grace. St. Francis echoed this attitude and rejoiced when he was wronged or humiliated because he knew it increased him in wisdom.

Toss the books. Toss the pamphlets. Learn the use of your knees. St. Paul didn’t begin to learn until he was thrown down from his horse.

 

[water]

Now I’m sure you will re-quote the passage where St. Paul stated “one gift to one…another manifestation of the Spirit to another”.

I’m not trying to upset anyone, or “preach at” you, but we all need to read the Decree on the Apostolate of the Laity if we are to be “soldiers for Christ” as the Holy Spirit enables us through the Sacrament of Confirmation and HIS charisms.

Thanks for your answer.
One thing I have noticed and needed to tell you this - please don’t assume what I would be about to say. It is not going to help you and me.

Don’t let your conversation between you and other spoiled your conversation between you and me.

Take it easy.

 

[RoyJr]

I tend to make a distinction between the gifts of the Holy Spirit from charism’s.

The 9 charisms (charismata in greek = gifts), mentioned in 1 Cor 12 (23 in the whole of the New Trestament) are “gifts”. The charisms of 1 Cor 12 are “ministerial” gifts, unlike, but similar to the “sanctifying” gifts of Isaiah 11.

Is this correct by what the Church teaches?

**Charisms

799 Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world.

800 Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.253

801 It is in this sense that discernment of charisms is always necessary. No charism is exempt from being referred and submitted to the Church’s shepherds. "Their office [is] not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good,"254 so that all the diverse and complementary charisms work together "for the common good."255

---

1831 The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. They belong in their fullness to Christ, Son of David.109 They complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them. They make the faithful docile in readily obeying divine inspirations. ** - Catechism of the Catholic Church

Here’s something interesting: **951 Communion of charisms. Within the communion of the Church, the Holy Spirit “distributes special graces among the faithful of every rank” for the building up of the Church.484 Now, "to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good."485 ** - Catechism of the Cstholic Church



You are all called to work in the charisms, whether you obey God or not, that’s up to you.

 

[RoyJr]

Roy, just helping you get down to earth.

& I’m trying to help you get to heaven.

You claimed my posts were the work of Satan, remember?

I never called YOU “satan”, I called you “my thorn”.
Are you not “stifling the Spirit”? Are you not playing “devils’ advocate”?

St. Paul never forgot or tried to minimize his transgressions. And, regarding his infirmities, he stopped praying for their ceasation and gave thanks for them as a source of grace. St. Francis echoed this attitude and rejoiced when he was wronged or humiliated because he knew it increased him in wisdom.

Is that what you are trying to do? Humilate me? That’s Christian love there folks. Thanks Thorny.

Toss the books

Toss the Bible? Toss the Catechism? Toss Vatican II?

Toss the pamphlets.

Rock the Casbah? If you toss your goggling. before I toss my cookies, puke I mean.

Learn the use of your knees.

But, I have no legs.
FYI: I go to Mass DAILY, sometimes twice a day (Canon Law mermits). I Confess weekly. I pray IN THE SPIRIT as often as possible.

St. Paul didn’t begin to learn until he was thrown down from his horse.

I’m a mexican, I ride a burro. Ole!

Yes, Saul of Tarsus had to become blind before he could see. Been there, done that.

 

[TOP]

Royjr., Thanks for the info, Does that make charism’s “lesser” then the 7 gifts or resulting manifestations of the 7 original gift’s of the H.S.? Should Catholics look for these manifestations or go by faith?Tim

 

[RoyJr]

Royjr., Thanks for the info, Tim

You are welcome.

As you can see, I’m not trying to force my own views or opinions. Everything I’ve quoted is straight from The Holy Bible, Vatican II, or the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Protestants call us “the sleeping giant”. If more “catholics” allowed the Holy Spirit to move them to “get off their knees” & get some action going, then we’d see miracles in the world.

STEP OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONES CATHOLICS!
You may be surprised.

 

[RoyJr]

Thanks for your answer.
One thing I have noticed and needed to tell you this - please don’t assume what I would be about to say. It is not going to help you and me.

Don’t let your conversation between you and other spoiled your conversation between you and me.

Take it easy.

Point taken.
God Bless you agua! <— see what I did there? Agua - spanish for water. I’m being silly.

 

[TOP]

See Roy, I’m in a spot. I believe in strict reverence and order to the Mass, much like the TLM, to worship as subjects, but I also believe in the charism’s. I don’t know their place in the Church and there is not much proper leadership in the structure of Church concerning charism’s. If I approached my Priest saying I think I have had prophecy, he may have me locked up, and rightly so for observation.BTDT. If a Priest won’t take you seriously, then how can it help the Church? Anything else would be disobedient and would cause division. See what I’m saying? Tim

 

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

Are you not “stifling the Spirit”? Are you not playing “devils’ advocate”?

Just spoiling Simon Magus’s joyride.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

TO GROUP OF RENEWAL IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
Pope John Paul II​

CHARISMATIC RENEWAL IS GIFT TO THE CHURCH
On Thursday, 14 March, the Holy Father celebrated the 30th anniversary of the advent of the Charismatic Renewal in Italy when he received a delegation of members of this important ecclesial movement. In Italy the movement of Renewal in the Spirit has about 200,000 members in 1,800 communities or prayer groups. The Holy Father summed up the Charismatic Renewal in this wonderful way: “The Renewal in the Spirit can be considered a special gift of the Holy Spirit to the Church in our time. Born in the Church and for the Church, your movement is one in which, following the light of the Gospel, the members experience the living encounter with Jesus, fidelity to God in personal and community prayer, confident listening to his Word and a vital rediscovery of the Sacraments, not forgetting courage in trials and hope in hardship”.

1. In the final analysis, all your evangelizing activities tend to foster in the People of God constant growth in holiness. Indeed, holiness is the priority in every age, and therefore also in our own time. The Church and the world need saints, and we ourselves become holier the more we allow the Holy Spirit to configure us to Christ. This is the secret of the regenerating experience of the “outpouring of the Spirit”, a typical experience that defines the process of growth proposed for the members of your groups and communities. With all my heart I hope that Renewal in the Spirit may be a true “gymnasium” in the Church for prayer, asceticism, virtue and holiness.

In a special way continue to love and spread love for the prayer of praise, the form of prayer that recognizes more immediately that God is God; praises him for his own sake, gives him glory for who he is, long before thinking of what he does (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 2639).

In our time that is so hungry for hope, make the Holy Spirit known and loved. Help bring to life that “culture of Pentecost”, that alone can make fruitful the civilization of love and friendly coexistence among peoples. With fervent insistence, never tire of praying “Come Holy Spirit! Come! Come!”.

May the Blessed Mother of Christ and of the Church, the Virgin at prayer in the Upper Room, always be with you! May the Blessing I cordially impart to you, and to all the members of Renewal of the Holy Spirit, also go with you!

---

Taken from:
L’Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
20 March 2002, page 3
L’Osservatore Romano is the newspaper of the Holy See.
The Weekly Edition in English is published for the US by:

The Cathedral Foundation
L’Osservatore Romano English Edition
320 Cathedral St.
Baltimore, MD 21201​

Provided Courtesy of:
Eternal Word Television Network
5817 Old Leeds Road
Irondale, AL 35210
www.ewtn.com

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2CHARS.HTM

There are other toics of interest in this link:

ewtn.com/vlibrary/search2.asp

Am I an outcast with God since I do not accept Pentecostalism/Charismatic meetings? Is it OKI if I do not believe in the so-called “miracles?” Am I still able to receive Jesus in the Eucharist if I reject Charismatic practices and notions? Am I a heretic?

 

[TOP]

Am I an outcast with God since I do not accept Pentecostalism/Charismatic meetings? Is it OKI if I do not believe in the so-called “miracles?” Am I still able to receive Jesus in the Eucharist if I reject Charismatic practices and notions? Am I a heretic?

Is this not you?JK
http://homepage.mac.com/hodelas/daddyMovies/C1721030558/E39450825/Media/the_light.jpg

 

[Mary_ann_R]

TO GROUP OF RENEWAL IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
Pope John Paul II

The other link was incorrect - sorry!!

when you pull up the search page–type in charismatic where it say keyword and it pulls up the files.

There are other toics of interest in this link:

ewtn.com/vlibrary/search.asp