Ask about Islam round 3!

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In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mathew, Chapter 1 verse 1

“Jesus Christ, the son of David,…”.[Mathew 1:1]

How do u explain this Biblical verse ? Surely u don’t think God made a mistake here ?

related link:

ilovezakirnaik.com/misconceptions/d02.htm
Your biggest showman is also a liar and that has been proved here - read the debate, the outcome of which he LIED about faithfreedom.org/debates/NaikCampbellintro.htm. Watch him on YouTube with an open mind. Quite frankly I would not even buy a used car from the man - he looks dodgy.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace
Your biggest showman is also a liar and that has been proved here - read the debate
http://www.irf.net/irf/videotapes/bigimage/35

Qur’an and the Bible in the Light of Science

Dr Zakir Naik Vs Dr Campbell

I have watched the debate on Peace TV . I am sure u did not watch it , otherwise u would not have recommended it .

Zakir was excellent , Dr Campbell looked so helpless & he admitted that he does not have answers of some questions . He failed to ans how son is older than dad mentioned in Bible , he did not accept the challenge that if he is ready to take poison in the name of Jesus (p) & proves that he is a real Christian & poison won’t harm him , with the power of Jesus (p) or holy Spirit , can he read the lines written in Indian notes in different languages as Bible says followers of Jesus (p) can have this power etc etc.

islamictorrents.net/details.php?id=8878

Text :

irf.net/quran_bible_in_the_light_of_science_I.doc
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Text :

(Dr. Campbell) There are things in the Bible that I cannot explain - that I do not have any answer for now.

(Dr. Zakir) How can a son be two years older than the father? Believe me, even… even in Hollywood film, you will not be able to produce it.

…- And if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed … I have personally interacted with thousands of Christians, including missionaries - I have not come across a single Christian, who has passed this confirmatory test of the Bible.

… Please be rest assured, I will not ask Dr. William Campbell to have deadly poison - Because I don’t want to jeopardize the debate. What I’ll do - I will only ask him to speak in foreign tongues… In new languages.

…I have got a ‘One hundred-rupee note.’ And this has all the 17 languages mentioned here. Besides English and Hindi, I will help him. I give him a beginning –‘Ek sav rupaiya, In Hindi.

The remaining 15 languages are here - I request him to read.

…in the book of Numbers, Ch. no.5 Verse No…11 to 31. I’ll just say in brief. It says that… ‘The priest should take holy water in a vessel… You know today in the world, there are thousands of cases … someone has alleged that a woman has committed adultery…President of this great country Mr. Bill Clinton, he was involved in a sex scandal about 2 years back.

I wonder, that why did not the American court use this ‘bitter water test’ for adultery? He would have gone scot-free immediately. Why did not the Christian missionaries of this great country, specially those who are in the medical field like my respected Dr. William Campbell, use this bitter water test to bail out their President, immediately

irf.net/quran_bible_in_the_light_of_science_I.doc
 
:hug1: dzheremi you should practice your Arabic skills from time to time, and no problem all of us do mistakes, inJESUS & I are here to assist you.

However, regarding (name removed by moderator) question, the Quran once calling her “sister of Aaron” and in another verse as “daughter of Amram” (Quran 19:28), (Quran 66:12).

Here is what Ibn-Kather commentary says:
تفسير ابن كثير:
وقوله تعالى " ومريم ابنة عمران التي أحصنت فرجها " أي حفظته وصانته والإحصان هو العفاف والحرية " فنفخنا فيه من روحنا " أي بواسطة الملك وهو جبريل فإن الله بعثه إليها فتمثل لها في صورة بشر سوي وأمره الله تعالى أن ينفخ بفيه في جيب درعها فنزلت النفخة فولجت في فرجها فكان منه الحمل بعيسى عليه السلام

تفسير ابن كثير:
أمرا عظيما " يا أخت هارون " أي شبيهة هارون في العبادة " ما كان أبوك امرأ سوء وما كانت أمك بغيا " أي أنت من بيت طيب طاهر معروف بالصلاح والعبادة والزهادة فكيف صدر هذا منك

However, for (Quran 66:12), there is no indication in the original text nor in the commentary to indicate that as symbolic, therefore I would take that literally.
You are in the habit of taking things literally in the bible too, such as son and father relation etc. The Quran has rightly called Maryam (Mary) as the sister of Aaron and as the daughter of Imran. The matter was well explained to you. But you do not agree. Well and good.

Here it is again, to satisfy your curiosity:

Maryam was called the sister of Aaron because of her nature of duties in the temple. Her mother who was from the levites i.e she was the woman of Imran line, left Mary in the temple forever i.e. betrothed her to the temple for the service of God (Yahweh).

Since Aaron was also doing the same type of Job and Moses who was the brother of Aaron was not doing those things, so Maryam is called as sister of Aaron (and not sister of Moses a.s.)

That settles about the sister of Aaron. Now about the words “daughter of Imran”, that is also correct because the mother and father of Maryam were levites,hailing from Imran who was the father of Moses and Aaron. So Maryam could be called the daughter of Imran. What harm is there? Please see.
 
Your biggest showman is also a liar and that has been proved here - read the debate, the outcome of which he LIED about faithfreedom.org/debates/NaikCampbellintro.htm. Watch him on YouTube with an open mind. Quite frankly I would not even buy a used car from the man - he looks dodgy.
I do not know much about Dr. Zakir. I have visited the site www.faithfreedom… I read the article there in praise of Mr. Campbell. It was not a fair article. Also there was much about science, bible and Quran. For that it is necessary to read the book “Bible, Science and the quran”, written by a fair minded French christian Maurice Bucaille.

In that book, Maurice says that there is nothing scientific in the bible.And he says that there is nothing against science in the Quran. He had given many examples too. So the verdict is “There is nothing scientific in the bibleNT.”

So much for that. I do not know why that Catholic Revert had to run to that campbell affair. The discussion at present in hand was about jesus being the son of David. This had been presented by Muslim Woman from the bible.Please see her post again:

**Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mathew, Chapter 1 verse 1

“Jesus Christ, the son of David**,…”.[Mathew 1:1]

How do u explain this Biblical verse ? Surely u don’t think God made a mistake here ?

related link:

ilovezakirnaik.com/misconceptions/d02.htm

Even though she had mentioned a site about ilovezakirnaik. But still a better way would have been for the Revert to come back to the question of Jesus being the son of King David.

I wonder how many fathers Jesus has got.
 
The Christians believe that Jesus went away at the age of 33 years.
No, we don’t believe he “went away”; whether you like it or not, we believe he was crucified, died, rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven.
He never had any kingdom. In fact when Jesus was confronted on that issue during his trial, he denied being any king or having any kingdom. He said that his kingdom was not of this world. His kingdom was of the next world.
In the same paragraph, you said, “He never had any kingdom" and then you said, “His kingdom was of the next world.”

So which is it? Did he have a kingdom or not? You need to get your story straight.
 
…come to the field with good ideas if you have any from your book bibleNT.
How about, “Love thy neighbor”?

Your turn. Come to the field with good ideas if you have any from your book the koran.
 
Why do most Muslims judge Christians and take things out of context in the Bible?

For example, saying we don’t have the power to drink poison and live, and not even trying to understand what said verse even means.

Another example, saying we Christians are evil people because we attacked Muslims in the past, and not even regarding all the wicked acts which Mohammed committed.

But I don’t expect an answer. None of my other questions have been answered. Nor do I expect an adequent answer. It’s users like Muslim Woman and Sister Amy who smear Islam’s image and its relations with other faiths. And I think they know it, too. I think they’re just here to bash Christianity - either that or they are the most ignorant Muslims I have ever come across online. And I apologize for such harsh language.
 
Hey you guys - this is ‘Ask about Islam round 3’!

The muslims are using the strategy to deter you from doing it by bringing up stuff they should be starting a new thread about.

that ‘doctor’ is a quack.
 
Here is something from an ex-muslima who wrote about several things in her note, but this one really stuck out.

How many times have these same two muslims have accused us of worshiping statues?

I cannot count how many times.

WELL!!! It seems they think that black rock has consciousness! yeah, and that shows not only the roots of islam (with a mishmash of poorly written Bible stories thrown in the mix to confuse us because mohammed didn’t know them - he was an illiterate pagan!), but that they worship a rock!

And a rock that is in an encasing that looks very questionable! (I won’t go into what it looks like to me…😃 )


We hear Muslims believe the Black Stone circled in Mecca is conscious and will testify for and against them on Judgment Day (though they will deny it, the stone and ritual is based on a pagan deity). Meanwhile Muslims all over the world gleefully bring down ‘un-Islamic’ idols, statues, and figures representing deities in other religions. The physical manifestation of Allah, in the form of a conscience stone, is an important core of Muslims’ connection with deity. A pillar of Islam states that every individual must make a pilgrimage to the stone and pay homage. Having done so, a good Muslims can then return to his/her home and with greater piety plot violence against pagan idol worshipers of all sorts.
The above was gotten from an article called ‘hypocracies in islam’.

Now they have changed the story of Adam and Eve to include the black stone - they say it fell from heaven to show them where to offer sacrifice. And it was white but has turned black because of the sins it has absorbed. 🤷 It seems that they should have changed ‘the filter’ a long time ago and maybe there would be a lot more people not killed, tortured, looted, enslaved, etc!

Now, it is said that the Jews used stones to mark a place of worship - but that is totally different than worshiping a stone! Marking a spot and worship that marker - are certainly different!

And before they start - no, we don’t worship statues. It is called art, sometimes it is poor art - but some churches don’t have anything except an alter in them. I have actually been in a few. And maybe there might be a cross above the altar - but that is a ‘symbol’, a representation of something - which in this case is a representation of Christ on the cross.
 
Why do most Muslims judge Christians and take things out of context in the Bible?

For example, saying we don’t have the power to drink poison and live, and not even trying to understand what said verse even means.
Well, in all fairness, they say the same about us. I believe the misunderstanding comes from the two different ways of thinking.
Another example, saying we Christians are evil people because we attacked Muslims in the past, and not even regarding all the wicked acts which Mohammed committed.
IMHO, you have to understand where they are coming from. I am no theologian by any stretch, but here’s what I’ve been able to piece together by reading authors who have studied the writings of Islamic authorities down through the centuries.

Muslims believe the world is divided into two: “The House Of Islam” and “The House Of War” and that there will be no peace until the whole world is under Islamic rule. So, they have a command from their god to conquer the world. As absurd as it sounds to us, and like it or not, that’s what they believe. So a world that falls short of that ideal is in disorder, the natural order being Islamic rule. Therefore, war is caused by “The House Of War” and not by Muslims who are trying to achieve the “rightful” order; … AND … their efforts are therefore “defensive” because “The House Of War” [namely Christians] is/are stopping them from realizing that goal. A side note here is that once a territory has become Islamicized, it is considered perpetually Islamic, even if it is recaptured by the enemy, which explains why there is no solution to the Israeli/Arab conflict. There is no compromise with Islam; it has to rule or wait until it is strong enough to have another go at it.

Islam is Machiavellian – the ends justify the means; hence, anything that advances Islam is good; anything that opposes it is bad.

As far as Mohammed is concerned, he is their perfect example of how to live, so anything he did is, by definition, moral.

Any way you slice it, the religion part of Islamic philosophy is fundamentalist: Mohammed is right, and the world is wrong.
It’s users like Muslim Woman and Sister Amy who smear Islam’s image and its relations with other faiths.
Whatever they have done pales in comparison with what Islam has been able to accomplish on its own. I know they will come back and deny everything I’ve said; but I won’t believe anything they say, because when Islam takes over, they will sing a different tune. Are they lying? I wouldn’t call it that; rather, to them it seems to be similar to what bluffing in poker is to us.
 
Here is the question - if islam has predestination, how do they rationalize that a black rock has a consciousness and will ‘speak’ for them on Judgement Day?

Why have a Judgement Day if they are predestined for heaven or hell?

Why die fighting if they are predestined?

Why celebrate those who die fighting if there is predestination?
 
I know my previous questions will never be answered by muslims.

So, I will go on with another interesting thing about islam. I have been searching for something that goes into abrogation. We have read, time and again, abrogated surahs that the muslims on these threads post to try to prove that islam is ‘peaceful’.

Abrogation
In an attempt to polish Islam’s image, Muslim activists usually quote verses from the Quran that were written in the early days of the Islamic movement while Mohammed lived in Mecca. Those passages make Islam appear loving and harmless because they call for love, peace and patience. Such is a deception. The activists fail to tell gullible people that such verses, though still in the Quran, were nullified, abrogated, rendered void by later passages that incite killing, decapitations, maiming, terrorism and religious intolerance. The latter verses were penned while Mohammed’s headquarters was based in Medina.
When speaking with people of Christianized/Western societies, Muslim activists deliberately hide a major Islamic doctrine called “al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh” (the Abrogator and the Abrogated). This simply means that in situations wherein verses contradict one another, the early verses are overridden by the latter verses. The chronological timing in which a verse was written determines its authority to establish policies within Islam. Non-Muslims cannot afford to be ignorant about the full implications of the Abrogator and the Abrogated Doctrine (al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh). When Islamic spokesmen say that Islam is a religion of peace and that the Quran does not support such things as human rights infractions, gender bias and terrorism, they are lying. This means that the Western politicians and liberal journalists, who continually spout that Islam is a noble religion of peace, are in reality propagating a deception that they have been deceived into parroting.
This presents problems for naïve people who are not familiar with Islam and the Quran. They don’t know that the surahs/chapters of the Quran are not arranged in chorological order in regard to the timing in which they were written. Therefore an activist who is out to deceive them can turn to various places throughout the Quran and read verses that sound peaceful, tolerant, reasonable and loving. The impression is that the entire Quran promotes peace, love, equality and tolerance for all. That is far from the truth. Most Muslims fully understand that the few Quranic verses that seemingly promote equality, peace and justice are more often than not overridden/ nullified by later verses that validate such things as terrorism and legalistic restrictions on routine human and women’s rights.
I suggest reading the rest of the article - and cut/paste it as reference for yourselves since the muslims will quite often post the weaker, abrogated surahs in order to intentionally deceive us. And that is sanctioned in the koran too - 6:25 6:110 17:45-76
 
Well, in all fairness, they say the same about us. I believe the misunderstanding comes from the two different ways of thinking.

IMHO, you have to understand where they are coming from. I am no theologian by any stretch, but here’s what I’ve been able to piece together by reading authors who have studied the writings of Islamic authorities down through the centuries.

Muslims believe the world is divided into two: “The House Of Islam” and “The House Of War” and that there will be no peace until the whole world is under Islamic rule. So, they have a command from their god to conquer the world. As absurd as it sounds to us, and like it or not, that’s what they believe. So a world that falls short of that ideal is in disorder, the natural order being Islamic rule. Therefore, war is caused by “The House Of War” and not by Muslims who are trying to achieve the “rightful” order; … AND … their efforts are therefore “defensive” because “The House Of War” [namely Christians] is/are stopping them from realizing that goal. A side note here is that once a territory has become Islamicized, it is considered perpetually Islamic, even if it is recaptured by the enemy, which explains why there is no solution to the Israeli/Arab conflict. There is no compromise with Islam; it has to rule or wait until it is strong enough to have another go at it.

Islam is Machiavellian – the ends justify the means; hence, anything that advances Islam is good; anything that opposes it is bad.

As far as Mohammed is concerned, he is their perfect example of how to live, so anything he did is, by definition, moral.

Any way you slice it, the religion part of Islamic philosophy is fundamentalist: Mohammed is right, and the world is wrong.

Whatever they have done pales in comparison with what Islam has been able to accomplish on its own. I know they will come back and deny everything I’ve said; but I won’t believe anything they say, because when Islam takes over, they will sing a different tune. Are they lying? I wouldn’t call it that; rather, to them it seems to be similar to what bluffing in poker is to us.
I looked up Machiavelli and machiavellian - and this is what I got: : the political theory of Machiavelli ; especially : the view that politics is amoral and that any means however unscrupulous can justifiably be used in achieving political power

And I have to agree with you, but also add in fascism into the mix. And I don’t like to do that unless I am convinced of it since our left wingers throw that term out all the time when they have nothing else to argue.

here is the definition.

**1: often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality **

And all of this coupled into the mix by adding a god - makes islam dangerous for anyone who is not a muslim.

And I call it deception. It seems to temper the word - lying - down a bit. Sorry, but that is what it is. If one is not telling the truth then one is deceiving. Bluffing in poker is trying to deceive the other players. And they do it with facial and body gestures, along with a soothing voice - calmness, an unemotional way to deceive others.
 
And all of this coupled into the mix by adding a god - makes islam dangerous for anyone who is not a muslim.

And I call it deception. It seems to temper the word - lying - down a bit. Sorry, but that is what it is. If one is not telling the truth then one is deceiving. Bluffing in poker is trying to deceive the other players. And they do it with facial and body gestures, along with a soothing voice - calmness, an unemotional way to deceive others.
Taqiyya and Kitman

“It has been quite an effort to prevent Infidels from getting the wrong (that is to say, the right) impression of Islam, at least until such time as Muslims in the West currently singing the praises of ‘pluralism’ no longer have need for Infidel good will and tolerance. To date, the twin techniques of ‘taqiyya’ and tu-quoque have been relied on. ‘taqiyya’ is the religiously-sanctioned doctrine, with its origins in Shi’a Islam but now practiced by non-Shi’a as well, of deliberate dissimulation about religious matters that may be undertaken to protect Islam, and the Believers. A related term, of broader application, is ‘kitman,’ which is defined as ‘mental reservation.’ An example of ‘taqiyya’ would be the insistence of a Muslim apologist that ‘of course’ there is freedom of conscience in Islam, and then quoting that Qur’anic verse – ‘There shall be no compulsion in religion.’ But the impression given will be false, for there has been no mention of the Muslim doctrine of abrogation, or naskh, whereby such an early verse as that about ‘no compulsion in religion’ has been cancelled out by later, far more intolerant and malevolent verses. In any case, history shows that within Islam there is, and always has been, ‘compulsion in religion’ for Muslims, and for non-Muslims. The ‘compulsion’ for Muslims comes from the treatment of apostasy as an act punishable by death. And though ‘dhimmis’ are allowed to practice their religion, they do so under conditions of such burdens and restrictions that many, not as an act of conscience but rather as a response to inexorable Muslim pressure, have converted (or ‘reverted’) to Islam.

“‘Kitman’ is close to ‘taqiyya,’ but rather than outright dissimulation, it consists in telling only a part of the truth, with ‘mental reservation’ justifying the omission of the rest. One example may suffice. When a Muslim maintains that ‘jihad’ really means ‘a spiritual struggle,’ and fails to add that this definition is a recent one in Islam (little more than a century old), he misleads by holding back, and is practicing ‘kitman.’ When he adduces, in support of this doubtful proposition, the hadith in which Muhammad, returning home from one of his many battles, is reported to have said (as known from a chain of transmitters, or isnad), that he had returned from ‘the Lesser Jihad to the Greater Jihad’ and does not add what he also knows to be true, that this is a ‘weak’ hadith, regarded by the most-respected muhaddithin as of doubtful authenticity, he is further practicing ‘kitman’.”

Source: jihadwatch.org/archives/004628.php
 
Taqiyya and Kitman

“It has been quite an effort to prevent Infidels from getting the wrong (that is to say, the right) impression of Islam, at least until such time as Muslims in the West currently singing the praises of ‘pluralism’ no longer have need for Infidel good will and tolerance. To date, the twin techniques of ‘taqiyya’ and tu-quoque have been relied on. ‘taqiyya’ is the religiously-sanctioned doctrine, with its origins in Shi’a Islam but now practiced by non-Shi’a as well, of deliberate dissimulation about religious matters that may be undertaken to protect Islam, and the Believers. A related term, of broader application, is ‘kitman,’ which is defined as ‘mental reservation.’ An example of ‘taqiyya’ would be the insistence of a Muslim apologist that ‘of course’ there is freedom of conscience in Islam, and then quoting that Qur’anic verse – ‘There shall be no compulsion in religion.’ But the impression given will be false, for there has been no mention of the Muslim doctrine of abrogation, or naskh, whereby such an early verse as that about ‘no compulsion in religion’ has been cancelled out by later, far more intolerant and malevolent verses. In any case, history shows that within Islam there is, and always has been, ‘compulsion in religion’ for Muslims, and for non-Muslims. The ‘compulsion’ for Muslims comes from the treatment of apostasy as an act punishable by death. And though ‘dhimmis’ are allowed to practice their religion, they do so under conditions of such burdens and restrictions that many, not as an act of conscience but rather as a response to inexorable Muslim pressure, have converted (or ‘reverted’) to Islam.

“‘Kitman’ is close to ‘taqiyya,’ but rather than outright dissimulation, it consists in telling only a part of the truth, with ‘mental reservation’ justifying the omission of the rest. One example may suffice. When a Muslim maintains that ‘jihad’ really means ‘a spiritual struggle,’ and fails to add that this definition is a recent one in Islam (little more than a century old), he misleads by holding back, and is practicing ‘kitman.’ When he adduces, in support of this doubtful proposition, the hadith in which Muhammad, returning home from one of his many battles, is reported to have said (as known from a chain of transmitters, or isnad), that he had returned from ‘the Lesser Jihad to the Greater Jihad’ and does not add what he also knows to be true, that this is a ‘weak’ hadith, regarded by the most-respected muhaddithin as of doubtful authenticity, he is further practicing ‘kitman’.”

Source: jihadwatch.org/archives/004628.php
yeah, jihadwatch is one of my daily reads for news around the globe concerning muslims. Many say it is biased but they don’t read it - because if they don’t like the side comments, all they have to do is click on the source of the document - they always provide it.

And yes, I know about taqiyya/kitman - BUT!! I like the way you write things.

And by putting a different description on deception - doesn’t change deception - or lying.

I have maintained for quite some time that mohammed broke most of the 10 commandments (it is he who wants islam placed with Judaism and Christianity) and so he had to redefine sin. And I must say - his followers fell for it, and fall for it all the time like rotten apples from the tree.
 
You have a good opportunity to ask Muslims about their faith you might use it instead of angering them.
 
Why do most Muslims judge Christians and take things out of context in the Bible?
I forgot to mention one thing about “context” in the Koran. As I said, Muslims like to say we take “out of context” what is clearly written in the Koran. To test this the next time a Muslim accuses you of that, take a passage out of the Koran, and exchange the words “Muslim”, “believer”, etc. with the word “Christian”, “unbeliever”, etc., accordingly, and watch their reaction. You can tell by their reaction whether you will have gotten the context correctly!

Question: What if a Muslim did the same with the Bible?
 
Hey you guys - this is ‘Ask about Islam round 3’!

The muslims are using the strategy to deter you from doing it by bringing up stuff they should be starting a new thread about.

that ‘doctor’ is a quack.
It’s hard to ask questions when you don’t receive answers.
 
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