Ask about Islam round 3!

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I forgot to mention one thing about “context” in the Koran. As I said, Muslims like to say we take “out of context” what is clearly written in the Koran. To test this the next time a Muslim accuses you of that, take a passage out of the Koran, and exchange the words “Muslim”, “believer”, etc. with the word “Christian”, “unbeliever”, etc., accordingly, and watch their reaction. You can tell by their reaction whether you will have gotten the context correctly!

Question: What if a Muslim did the same with the Bible?
You mean, what if a Muslim changed the words in the Bible? Like say:

“There is neither Gentile or Jew, woman or man, slave or free, for in Christ all are one.” (my paraphrase)

To

“There is neither unbeliever or Muslim, woman or man, slave or free, for in Allah all are one.”

Like that?
 
You mean, what if a Muslim changed the words in the Bible? Like say:

“There is neither Gentile or Jew, woman or man, slave or free, for in Christ all are one.” (my paraphrase)

To

“There is neither unbeliever or Muslim, woman or man, slave or free, for in Allah all are one.”

Like that?
Not exactly. “There is neither Muslim, or Christian, woman or man, slave or free, for in God all are one.”

Now contrast the reaction of a Christian to that with what the likely reaction of a Muslim if the Bible said something like:

"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Christians and Jews] is worse than slaughter [of Muslims]…and wage Crusades against them until persecution is no more, and religion is for the Holy Trinity.

"Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of Muslims, for that they joined companions with God, for which He had sent no authority.

"Let those wage Crusades in the way of the Holy Trinity [all glory and praise] who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of the Holy Trinity [all glory and praise], be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
Those who believe fight in the cause of the Father [blessed be His Holy Name], Son [blessed be his Sacred Heart], and Holy Spirit [come, fill our hearts].

"The punishment of those who wage war against the Holy Trinity [all glory and praise] and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.
I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve [in the Holy Trinity]. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

"And wage Crusades against them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for the Holy Trinity [all glory and praise].

"So when the Holy Season has passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.

"Wage Crusades against them, God the Father [blessed be His Holy Name] will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace. "… etc.

The whole point is we have the context of the Koran correct.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Jon - United States: I am a 16-year-old Christian from Texas, US, and I was wondering if you could explain what Islam actually is. It is confusing when people here tell me about it.

Ahmad Kutty:…God tells us in the Qur’an: (O mankind, We have created you all from a single (pair of a) male and female and made you nations and tribes **

so that you get to know one another; verily, the noblest of you in the sight of God is the one who is most mindful of Him**.

God is All-Knowing, All-Aware ) (Al-Hujurat 49:13).

…Islam does not claim to be a new religion revealed to Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). Rather it is essentially the same message revealed to all of God’s prophets and messengers from the beginning of time.

Among these messengers were Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (may God bless them all and grant them peace)…

We believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and what was given to Moses, Jesus, and all the prophets by their Lord.

We make no distinction between any of them, and we devote ourselves to Him ) (Al-Baqarah 2:136)
Code:
For further information, I suggest you refer to the following work: Yahiya Emerick's The Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Islam 2nd edition. It should be available through your local library system or bookstores or you can order it online from Amazon.com.
Excerpted, with slight modifications, from: www.islam.ca.

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Allah Almighty knows best.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1128453795984
 
You have a good opportunity to ask Muslims about their faith you might use it instead of angering them.
You don’t think that others haven’t tried to get answers out of them?

they have. I stopped a long time ago.

The answers we do get are along these lines:
Abrogation.

They are very good at what is called taqiyya/kithman also. here is a post from another member that explained it better than I:

Taqiyya and Kitman, by sedonaman
“It has been quite an effort to prevent Infidels from getting the wrong (that is to say, the right) impression of Islam, at least until such time as Muslims in the West currently singing the praises of ‘pluralism’ no longer have need for Infidel good will and tolerance. To date, the twin techniques of ‘taqiyya’ and tu-quoque have been relied on. ‘taqiyya’ is the religiously-sanctioned doctrine, with its origins in Shi’a Islam but now practiced by non-Shi’a as well, of deliberate dissimulation about religious matters that may be undertaken to protect Islam, and the Believers. A related term, of broader application, is ‘kitman,’ which is defined as ‘mental reservation.’ An example of ‘taqiyya’ would be the insistence of a Muslim apologist that ‘of course’ there is freedom of conscience in Islam, and then quoting that Qur’anic verse – ‘There shall be no compulsion in religion.’ But the impression given will be false, for there has been no mention of the Muslim doctrine of abrogation, or naskh, whereby such an early verse as that about ‘no compulsion in religion’ has been cancelled out by later, far more intolerant and malevolent verses. In any case, history shows that within Islam there is, and always has been, ‘compulsion in religion’ for Muslims, and for non-Muslims. The ‘compulsion’ for Muslims comes from the treatment of apostasy as an act punishable by death. And though ‘dhimmis’ are allowed to practice their religion, they do so under conditions of such burdens and restrictions that many, not as an act of conscience but rather as a response to inexorable Muslim pressure, have converted (or ‘reverted’) to Islam.
“‘Kitman’ is close to ‘taqiyya,’ but rather than outright dissimulation, it consists in telling only a part of the truth, with ‘mental reservation’ justifying the omission of the rest. One example may suffice. When a Muslim maintains that ‘jihad’ really means ‘a spiritual struggle,’ and fails to add that this definition is a recent one in Islam (little more than a century old), he misleads by holding back, and is practicing ‘kitman.’ When he adduces, in support of this doubtful proposition, the hadith in which Muhammad, returning home from one of his many battles, is reported to have said (as known from a chain of transmitters, or isnad), that he had returned from ‘the Lesser Jihad to the Greater Jihad’ and does not add what he also knows to be true, that this is a ‘weak’ hadith, regarded by the most-respected muhaddithin as of doubtful authenticity, he is further practicing ‘kitman’.”
 
**Swariffin, I had given a detailed reply. You do not know where Mary was living and what she was doing before becoming pregnant in the temple. You do not know why she was in the temple as a first question. You do not know that Mary and her mother were hailing from the Levites. They belonged to Imran, the father of Moses a.s.

Quran is calling her the sister of Aaron. Why Quran does not call her the sister of Moses? Have you thought about that? The Quranic description is far ahead of the church thinking. Church does not teach you these things because these things prove the truth of the Quran, far ahead of your bible.

You should know what was the duties of Aaron. Then you should know what were the duties of Mary under the care of zakariya a.s. in the temple. Then you will understand why Quran calls “O sister of Aaron…”

The Jews of that time respected Mary very much and they knew her status very well. But you do not know it because the church does not tell you (the truth). Moreover, you are a convert, a new Catholic who left islam. It means your were a very poor Muslim to start with. You knew nothing about Islam. But there is no harm in learning some of the good things at any time.**
What you as well as Muhammad get is from the Protoevangelism of James, Planten, almost a direct copy of it. That book was written around 300 AD. That book was far to be called contemporary to Mary’s life. That book is also called Apocript in Christian believe. Show me from earlier dated source that Mary was venerated by Jewish community. No female Jewish ever been venerated except female prophet. Very few female prophet mentioned in the bible, and all of them were in the OT. Beside, Mary was not the decendent from the Levite. Mary was the decendent from Benjamin. I know the duty of Aaron which is the priest or even the high priest. Never be a female Jew hold the duty as a priest.

So, your analysis does not hold.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Muslims believed for uttering each letter of holy Quran , we will be rewarded on the Judgment Day. Also , have Quran in memory is one of the ways to protect it from corruption. If anyone wants to make any changes in Quran , Muslims can catch the culprit immediately.

Quran was memorised since the coming of the revealation. Many Qurani Hafizz were available at that time , millions are available now & God Willing in future they will be present. Quran competition takes place each year in many countries including in the west .
So, if I can utter every letter of the Holy Quran correctly, do have sholat 5 times a day without missing, doing fasting 40 days without missing during the Ramadhan, paying pilgrimage to Mecca. But, I never care to help a fellow human and let him/her die starving in front of me, am I still get a reward in Heaven???
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mathew, Chapter 1 verse 1

“Jesus Christ, the son of David,…”.[Mathew 1:1]

How do u explain this Biblical verse ? Surely u don’t think God made a mistake here ?

related link:

ilovezakirnaik.com/misconceptions/d02.htm
Where in Matthew that Mary is called sister of Aaron??? Your inclusion of Mary and Aaron both the descendant of Abraham is way to large. In that case, Adolf Hitler is also the brother of Muhammad because both Adolf Hitler and Muhammad were the descendant of Adam.
 
M W, Beautiful post and a good reminder from you, to all of us here. While I considered the birth of Jesus as a miracle, yet I considered him a prince. Not a prince of peace but real prince, heir to the throne of David.

Now because of the above post it is proved that Jesus was indeed a prince. And hailing from King David, he could not be any prince of peace. Because King David never saw peace and never ushered in any peace in the world around him. Jesus also denied about the Peace.

In some verse, Jesus said ,“Don’t think I have come to make peace in the world…” So Jesus cannot be called a prince of Peace. He can however be called a prince only. He cannot be called a king. A king is different to a prince.

The Christians believe that Jesus went away at the age of 33 years. He never had any kingdom. In fact when Jesus was confronted on that issue during his trial, he denied being any king or having any kingdom. He said that his kingdom was not of this world. His kingdom was of the next world.

That is alright. We Muslims are ready to believe that his kingdom is of next world. The christians should please come to the real terms being used in this world, that is the King, the son, and the Father etc. Use real terminology only. Do not call the world to your unreal terms. Thanks.
Off course the Kingdom of Jesus is the kingdom of Heaven. You are correct. Jesus is not a king or prince of the earthly kingdom. But, for sure, the power of the King of Heaven will overcome easily the power of any kings combined together from the world.
 
Maryam was called the sister of Aaron because of her nature of duties in the temple. Her mother who was from the levites i.e she was the woman of Imran line, left Mary in the temple forever i.e. betrothed her to the temple for the service of God (Yahweh).

Show me the nature of duties of Mary in the temple. As a priest just like Aaron?? You surely do not know the Jewish culture.
 
What you as well as Muhammad get is from the Protoevangelism of James, Planten, almost a direct copy of it. That book was written around 300 AD. That book was far to be called contemporary to Mary’s life. That book is also called Apocript in Christian believe. Show me from earlier dated source that Mary was venerated by Jewish community. No female Jewish ever been venerated except female prophet. Very few female prophet mentioned in the bible, and all of them were in the OT. Beside, Mary was not the decendent from the Levite. Mary was the decendent from Benjamin. I know the duty of Aaron which is the priest or even the high priest. Never be a female Jew hold the duty as a priest.

So, your analysis does not hold.
swariffin, You are not well informed about your new scriptures (OT and NT). I did not mean that Mary was doing the duty of the priests in the temple. But she was helping and sweeping and burning incense and candles and doing such duties there. Other wise, what was she doing in the temple?

Try to understand. I had previously given you the complete relations of the elders of Moses and Aaron a.s. They were from the tribe of Lavi. So was the mother and father of Mary. Imran being the father of Moses a.s. the mother of Mary is addressed as a lady from the children of Imran… Even though the mother of Mary lived thousand and four hundred years after Moses and Aaron a.s. That is why she is called from the line of Imran. These were blessed people from amongst the Jews.

So Mary is also from the daughters of Imran, as mentioned in the Quran. She is also called the sister of Aaron for the same reason that she served in the temple under the grand priest (Prophet) Zakariya a.s. It is a simple matter which you are not understanding.

Anyhow, good luck to you. Keep looking. And hail Jesus and Mary.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace
So, if I can utter every letter of the Holy Quran correctly… still get a reward in Heaven???
Surah 21. The Prophets

We shall set up scales of justice for the Day of Judgment, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least, and if there be (no more than) the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account. ( Quran: 21:47.)

PS. Ramadan fasting is for 30 days. Prayer , fasting , Reciting Quran will be recorded & measured as good deeds , not to feed hungry people will be measured as bad deed. If one’s good deeds are more than bad deeds , s/he will be in heaven forever . Sinners will be in fire . Those who are sinners but worshipped one God only , after remaining in fire for some days/ months/years , s/he will be come out of fire & will be in heaven.
 
**Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 661: **
We used to worship stones, and when we found a better stone than the first one, we would throw the first one and take the latter, but if we could not get a stone then we would collect some earth (i.e. soil) and then bring a sheep and milk that sheep over it, and perform the Tawaf around it. When the month of Rajab came, we used (to stop the military actions), calling this month the iron remover, for we used to remove and throw away the iron parts of every spear and arrow in the month of Rajab. Abu Raja’ added: When the Prophet sent with (Allah’s) Message, I was a boy working as a shepherd of my family camels. When we heard the news about the appearance of the Prophet, we ran to the fire, i.e. to Musailima al-Kadhdhab.
صحيح البخاري
كنا نعبد الحجر فإذا وجدنا حجرا هو أخير منه ألقيناه وأخذنا الآخر فإذا لم نجد حجرا جمعنا ‏ ‏جثوة ‏ ‏من تراب ثم جئنا بالشاة فحلبناه عليه ثم طفنا به فإذا دخل شهر رجب قلنا ‏ ‏منصل ‏ ‏الأسنة فلا ندع رمحا فيه حديدة ولا سهما فيه حديدة إلا نزعناه وألقيناه شهر رجب وسمعت ‏ ‏أبا رجاء ‏ ‏يقول كنت يوم بعث النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏غلاما أرعى الإبل على أهلي فلما سمعنا بخروجه فررنا إلى النار إلى ‏ ‏مسيلمة الكذاب
(E) (A)

In the book of “the legendary in quran” , page 16,17 it said:{ that nudeness was for a reason, as there were sexual worshiping rituals taking place inside that Makkahin godly house in the ancient epochs }
In the book of" the father of prophets Ibrahim", by Muhammad hosny abdul-hammid, published in Cairo, page 92, he said:{ there was a pagan ritual performed by women, as they were touching the black stone by their menstrual blood, as the menstrual blood for the ancient pagan was the secret of birth, as they believed that, woman gives the blood and man gives the semen and the spirit is given by god They were assimilating the first act done by the moon god (Alh) when he slept with the sun god (Alat) So they were celebrating that occasion as the gods (the moon and the sun) did before, they were doing the same thing again (See also" the legendary and the heritage" by Sayed Al-Kemny, page 160,162.


English Source:
fatherzakaria.net/books/q…58-Episode.pdf

RIGHT ومن تلك الطقوس ما يثير الاندهاش، ففي (كتاب أبو الأنبياء إبراهيم الخليل. تأليف محمد حسني عبد الحميد نشر دار السعادة القاهرة ص 92) يقول: إن الحجر الأسود كان أبيضَ، لكنه اسود من مس الحيض في الجاهلية"!

(5) وجاء تعلقيا على هذه الرواية الإسلامية في (كتاب الأسطورة في القرآن ص 17و19) "أي أنه كان هناك طقس لدى الجاهليين تؤديه النساء في الحَجَر، وهو مس الحجر الأسود بدماء الحيض، ودماء الحيض بالذات!!! وقد كان دم الحيض عند المرأة في اعتقاد الأقدمين هو سر الميلاد، فمن المرأة الدم، ومن الرجل المَنِيُّ، ومن الإله الروح … إنهم يماثلون الفعل الأول الذي قام به … إله القمر عندما جامع الشمس الإلهة إلات].

7ـ وجاء في (كتاب الملل والنحل لأبي القاسم الشهرستاني ص 247) طقس كان يمارس وهو الاحتكاك بالحجر الأسود.

8ـ وقد قلنا في حلقة سابقة أن كلمة حج] مأخوذة أصلا من فعل الاحتكاك، فهي في أصلها من ح ك] مع الأخذ في الاعتبار هيئة الحجر الأسود وشكله. (في كتاب الأسطورة في القرآن ص 17و19)
[/RIGHT]

Arabic Source:
islamexplained.com/Default.aspx?tabid=256
 
It seems to me, there is a face staring at you. Is it an unmodified picture???
As far as I know it is unmodified. There are several different websites that have the same looking gizmo and this was a close up.

It is just probably the light playing off the ‘conscious’ stone.
 
**Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 661: **
We used to worship stones, and when we found a better stone than the first one, we would throw the first one and take the latter, but if we could not get a stone then we would collect some earth (i.e. soil) and then bring a sheep and milk that sheep over it, and perform the Tawaf around it. When the month of Rajab came, we used (to stop the military actions), calling this month the iron remover, for we used to remove and throw away the iron parts of every spear and arrow in the month of Rajab. Abu Raja’ added: When the Prophet sent with (Allah’s) Message, I was a boy working as a shepherd of my family camels. When we heard the news about the appearance of the Prophet, we ran to the fire, i.e. to Musailima al-Kadhdhab.
صحيح البخاري
كنا نعبد الحجر فإذا وجدنا حجرا هو أخير منه ألقيناه وأخذنا الآخر فإذا لم نجد حجرا جمعنا ‏ ‏جثوة ‏ ‏من تراب ثم جئنا بالشاة فحلبناه عليه ثم طفنا به فإذا دخل شهر رجب قلنا ‏ ‏منصل ‏ ‏الأسنة فلا ندع رمحا فيه حديدة ولا سهما فيه حديدة إلا نزعناه وألقيناه شهر رجب وسمعت ‏ ‏أبا رجاء ‏ ‏يقول كنت يوم بعث النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏غلاما أرعى الإبل على أهلي فلما سمعنا بخروجه فررنا إلى النار إلى ‏ ‏مسيلمة الكذاب
(E) (A)

In the book of “the legendary in quran” , page 16,17 it said:{ that nudeness was for a reason, as there were sexual worshiping rituals taking place inside that Makkahin godly house in the ancient epochs }
In the book of" the father of prophets Ibrahim", by Muhammad hosny abdul-hammid, published in Cairo, page 92, he said:{ there was a pagan ritual performed by women, as they were touching the black stone by their menstrual blood, as the menstrual blood for the ancient pagan was the secret of birth, as they believed that, woman gives the blood and man gives the semen and the spirit is given by god They were assimilating the first act done by the moon god (Alh) when he slept with the sun god (Alat) So they were celebrating that occasion as the gods (the moon and the sun) did before, they were doing the same thing again (See also" the legendary and the heritage" by Sayed Al-Kemny, page 160,162.


English Source:
fatherzakaria.net/books/q…58-Episode.pdf

RIGHT ومن تلك الطقوس ما يثير الاندهاش، ففي (كتاب أبو الأنبياء إبراهيم الخليل. تأليف محمد حسني عبد الحميد نشر دار السعادة القاهرة ص 92) يقول: إن الحجر الأسود كان أبيضَ، لكنه اسود من مس الحيض في الجاهلية"!

(5) وجاء تعلقيا على هذه الرواية الإسلامية في (كتاب الأسطورة في القرآن ص 17و19) "أي أنه كان هناك طقس لدى الجاهليين تؤديه النساء في الحَجَر، وهو مس الحجر الأسود بدماء الحيض، ودماء الحيض بالذات!!! وقد كان دم الحيض عند المرأة في اعتقاد الأقدمين هو سر الميلاد، فمن المرأة الدم، ومن الرجل المَنِيُّ، ومن الإله الروح … إنهم يماثلون الفعل الأول الذي قام به … إله القمر عندما جامع الشمس الإلهة إلات].

7ـ وجاء في (كتاب الملل والنحل لأبي القاسم الشهرستاني ص 247) طقس كان يمارس وهو الاحتكاك بالحجر الأسود.

8ـ وقد قلنا في حلقة سابقة أن كلمة حج] مأخوذة أصلا من فعل الاحتكاك، فهي في أصلها من ح ك] مع الأخذ في الاعتبار هيئة الحجر الأسود وشكله. (في كتاب الأسطورة في القرآن ص 17و19)
[/RIGHT]

Arabic Source:
islamexplained.com/Default.aspx?tabid=256
Thanks Sam, I almost forgot about the naked pagans. It is why the muslims don’t wear anything underneath their white robes at the hajj now.

The part that overwhelmed my brain was the part that the black stone was ‘conscious’. And the muslims say we are the ones who worship idols!?🤷
 
Maybe they don’t wear anything underneath the robes because they are in the desert in intense heat
 
Maybe they don’t wear anything underneath the robes because they are in the desert in intense heat
If you would like to understand the roots of islam maybe that might be a start. If they wear underclothes at other times ‘in the intense heat’ and especially what the woman have to wear - then why only during the hajj do they do that.

For more on the roots of islam:

Pagan Religious sources

No other religion - Judaism and Christianity - the two that mohammed claimed to be a part of think a black stone has consciousness, nor do they spit, throw stones at devils, run around it three times and then run to another rock a bit further away, snort, etc.

allah was the main god of his pagan religion and he almost put in allah’s three daughters, Al-'Uzza, al-Lat and Manah, but he said that ‘satan made him do it’, so he took them out. allah’s daughters

mohammed’s own father was called Abdullah which meant worshiper of allah. He died before mohammed was born. allah was the main god of mohammed’s pagan religion

Now, I will say that I WOULD INDEED probably wear next to nothing underneath one of those robes - ON A DAILY BASIS - if I lived in the desert. But, if the women did that while islam exists - they would be taken away by the ‘morality police’. Yes, saudi arabia have morality police, as do some other countries such as Iran. I am not sure if they all have them, but the woman’s owners usually dictate what their possessions can wear.
 
I didn’t realise it was only on pilgrimage that they dressed in such a way
 
swariffin, You are not well informed about your new scriptures (OT and NT). I did not mean that Mary was doing the duty of the priests in the temple. But she was helping and sweeping and burning incense and candles and doing such duties there. Other wise, what was she doing in the temple?

Try to understand. I had previously given you the complete relations of the elders of Moses and Aaron a.s. They were from the tribe of Lavi. So was the mother and father of Mary. Imran being the father of Moses a.s. the mother of Mary is addressed as a lady from the children of Imran… Even though the mother of Mary lived thousand and four hundred years after Moses and Aaron a.s. That is why she is called from the line of Imran. These were blessed people from amongst the Jews.

So Mary is also from the daughters of Imran, as mentioned in the Quran. She is also called the sister of Aaron for the same reason that she served in the temple under the grand priest (Prophet) Zakariya a.s. It is a simple matter which you are not understanding.

Anyhow, good luck to you. Keep looking. And hail Jesus and Mary.
I told you that the story about Mary from the Quran was from Protoevangelism of James. That book is not the bible.

Next, you admit that the duty of Mary living in the temple was sweeping the burning incense or things like that. For sure, that kind of duty was not considered as “important” compared to the duty as a priest. Likewise, a chef working in the white house never gain any recognition although he/she is serving many nation leaders of the world, visiting the US President. Your idea does not make sense that Mary gained such recognition as being called the sister of Aaron. Aaron was considered a VVIP in the Jews being a high priest and being the brother of Moses.
 
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