Without getting into a Israel/Palestine debate, how would this verse be applicable since Hagar was NOT Abraham’s wife, but Sarah’s maidservant? Were children of mistresses afforded the same rights as children born of the marriage? (I’m not very familiar with the Torah, so I don’t know?) Thanks.Salaam/peace
But here they ignore Ishmael, the first son of Abraham, and his children. (The Arabs are the Children of Ishmael). They deny the right of Ishmael saying that he was the son of a slave woman
In fact, in the Torah itself it is clearly stated that the firstborn should get double portion of his father’s share, even when his mother has a lower status.
“If a man has two wives… he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn:” (Deut. 21: 15 to 17)
**Sam_777, you are wrong about the hadith being the source of Muslim rituals. The Quran is number 1 source of all information and guidance.Hadiths in general teach the Muslims two main things, first, how to perform the Islamic rituals (obligatory), and second, how Muhammed used to live (actions and customs, aka Sunnah) which is not obligatory.
And there are only some authentic hadith collectors which Muslims recognize, for example, Muslims in SA fully recognize 9 collections of hadith, and that differs between Muslim-Sunnah and Muslim-Sheat.
More information about hadiths here.
Quran is the final holy book of God Almighty. Not a single word of Prophet Muhammed (p) is included here.Mohammed mentioned Jesus and this is recorded in Quran.
Angel Gabriel (p) brought the revelation to the Prophet Muhammed (p) as he brought revelation to Prophet Jesus (p) .How did Mohammed know Jesus considering that the former was born 500 years or so after the latter?
God is One , God is greater than ALL.What teachings of Jesus do the Muslims observe?
Genesis 16:3Hagar was NOT Abraham’s wife, but Sarah’s maidservant? .
You only quoted part of the text - not all of it. This text with commentary indicates that Hagar was NOT a wife of Abraham.http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
Salaam/peace
Genesis 16:3
… Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.
Genesis 16:2-4 (in Context) Genesis 16 (Whole Chapter)
biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Hagar&qs_version=31
Genesis 16 / Text Commentary
1Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; 2so she said to Abram, “The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her.” Abram agreed to what Sarai said. The situation is clear. Sarai is the wife of Abram, and Hagar is the servant of Sarai. It was a middle eastern custom in those times that a wife could give her slave to her husband and the child thus conceived would be counted as the child of the wife (“perhaps I can build a family through her”).
3So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4He slept with Hagar, and she conceived. When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. 5Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my servant in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the LORD judge between you and me.” 6"Your servant is in your hands," Abram said. “Do with her whatever you think best.” Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her. Even after the agreement between Sarai and Abram (v.2), Hagar is still considered her maidservant (v.3). The language is important. It is not Abram who takes Hagar into his tent, but Sarai gives Hagar to Abram. Sarai is in charge.** After Abram slept with Hagar and conceived, not only Sarai (v.5) but also Abram still talks about Hagar as Sarai’s servant (v.6), not as his (new) wife. Furthermore, the narrator continues to call Sarai “her mistress” (v.4). **The phrase “to be his wife” in verse 3 is merely a euphemism for sexual intercourse. That is clear from the phrase that immediately follows it as well as from the original request (v.2). The context makes it clear that Hagar remained the slave not of Abraham, but of Sarai.
All throughout Genesis we find Sarai addressed as Abraham’s wife many times (11:29,31; 12:5,17,18,20; 13:1; 16:1,3; 17:15,19; 18:9,10; 20:2,7,11,12,14,18; 23:3,19) by the narrator, by Abraham, or by God himself. Hagar is never called the wife of Abraham, whether by Abraham, or by Sarah, or by God and only once by the narrator in the above discussed verse 16:3. answering-islam.org/BibleCom/gen16-3.html
** W_stewart, Muhammad was not a great traveller. Yet it is surprising that he knew all the intricate history of the Jews. The proof is the Quran. It is believed by all the Muslims that God revealed all information (every word) of the Quran to the prophet Muhammad.Mohammed mentioned Jesus and this is recorded in Quran. How did Mohammed know Jesus considering that the former was born 500 years or so after the latter?
Also, Muslims consider Jesus as a prophet. What teachings of Jesus do the Muslims observe?
But there are Muslims who do not adhere to the teachings of hadiths in general. Those who oppose allege that the hadiths are mere oral traditions whose authenticity is highly questionable.Hadiths in general teach the Muslims two main things, first, how to perform the Islamic rituals (obligatory), and second, how Muhammed used to live (actions and customs, aka Sunnah) which is not obligatory.
And there are only some authentic hadith collectors which Muslims recognize, for example, Muslims in SA fully recognize 9 collections of hadith, and that differs between Muslim-Sunnah and Muslim-Sheat.
More information about hadiths here.
That is what the Muslim world believes. The revelations were allegedly given to Mohammed. According to historical records, he, being illiterate, dictated such revelations to his followers to be jotted down. With that arrangement, it is impossible not a single word of Mohammed not included in Quran.http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
Salaam/peace
Quran is the final holy book of God Almighty. Not a single word of Prophet Muhammed (p) is included here.
Angel Gabriel (p) brought the revelation to the Prophet Muhammed (p) as he brought revelation to Prophet Jesus (p).
God is One , God is greater than ALL.
related verses :
My Father is greater than I. Bible, John 14:28
For the Muslims, what was Jesus’ teaching on marriage?Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God , nor the angels who are near
( to God )…holy Quran , Chapter Women , verse 172 ( 4: 172 )
Mohammed was surrounded by Jews during his time. It is not impossible for Mohammed to hear about the history of the Jews. In fact, during Mohammed’s time, it was already a historical period. Obviously, many had been written about Jews considering its colorful history.W_stewart, Muhammad was not a great traveller. Yet it is surprising that he knew all the intricate history of the Jews. The proof is the Quran. It is believed by all the Muslims that God revealed all information (every word) of the Quran to the prophet Muhammad.
We Catholics do not wonder how Jesus knew about Moses. First, we believe he is God, thus omniscient. Second, OT books were already there.So we can wonder how did Jesus know about Moses and the the law of Moses, coming 1400 years after Moses a.s. How did Jesus know anything about Moses?
There are beautiful words in the Quran about Jesus and his mother Mary. They are worth reading. Jesus is described in the Quran as the son of a woman (Mary).
- He is described as a messenger of God for the Israeli people.
- He is described as a prophet of God.
- He is described as a prophet of the Israelis as there were other Israeli prophets.
- he was the last prophet in the line of Israeli prophets.
- He was a subordinate prophet under the command of Moses a.s. i.e. in Ummah of Moses a.s.
- Yet he was a direct/ independent prophet from God and not due to service to Moses a.s.
- It is written in the Quran that Jesus was aided ( helped) by the Holy spirit.
- he said that God gave him the book (must be bible, in Quran it is called Injeel).
- And God made him a prophet. (he said it.)
- He said that God had made him blessed where ever he was.
- He said that God had advised him to pray to Him regularly and to pay the poor money as long as he was alive.
- He said that He was told to be kind to his mother and not to be arrogant (disobedient) to her.
- He said that there was peace for him the day he was born and on the day he would die and on the day he would be raised to life.
Do Muslims believe Jesus sinned? How about Mary?This is becoming quite long. So I will try to post the remaining matter in the next post if needed. Most of the above has been taken from chapter 19 ( Maryam) of the Quran.
holy Quran did not mention each & every details of teachings of all Prophets (pbut). The most important message/ point is mentioned in Quran that all Prophets taught God is one , God is greater than All.For the Muslims, what was Jesus’ teaching on marriage?
If you think Bible is words of God & if Bible says Hagar (p) is wife of the Abraham (p) , why deny Bible & give more importance on human explanations ?… text with commentary indicates that Hagar was NOT a wife of Abraham.
That website is insane.In the Christian site , Hagar (p) is mentioned in the list of the wives & not as concubine.
patriarchywebsite.com/polygamy/poly-is.htm
I just thought the commentary would help you understand so I included it. Here is just the biblical text. I bolded the word servant where Abraham, AFTER, he had been with Hagar still refers to her as a servant, NOT as his wife, 2nd or otherwise. Why would he do that? Maybe* I’m *misunderstanding - do 1st wives have more power/influence over 2nd wives than the husband? I also included the following passage where the angel of the Lord speaks to Hagar and addresses her “servant of Sarai”, not “wife of Abram” and Hagar responds “running from my mistress” not “running from my husband” or “running from my husband’s wife”.http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
If you think Bible is words of God & if Bible says Hagar (p) is wife of the Abraham (p) , why deny Bible & give more importance on human explanations ?
1 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, “The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her.”
Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.
When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my servant in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the LORD judge between you and me.”
6 “Your servant is in your hands,” Abram said. “Do with her whatever you think best.” Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her.
7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”
“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.
Ishmael was never been a legitimate son of Abraham as Hagar was never been a legitimate wife of Abraham. You are correct.Without getting into a Israel/Palestine debate, how would this verse be applicable since Hagar was NOT Abraham’s wife, but Sarah’s maidservant? Were children of mistresses afforded the same rights as children born of the marriage? (I’m not very familiar with the Torah, so I don’t know?) Thanks.
Number four (4) is the book of Mirzha Ghulam Ahmad.**Sam_777, you are wrong about the hadith being the source of Muslim rituals. The Quran is number 1 source of all information and guidance.
Then we have the Sunnah as numbr two (2), i.e. the actual practice of the prophet Muhammad which he performed from the very first day and which is passed down to us practically, generation to generation in (by) very large number of people.
Nobody learns the prayer matters and ablution (Wudhu) by the books of Hadith.
Number three (3) is the Hdith which has much guidance too, which should not be against any verse of the Quran and should not be against any well known Hadith and should not be a single report, and there are many (a few) more strict tests for the Hadith to be authentic. It is however very useful and important for the muslims, in the third place. We learn many useful things through teh Hadith, i.e. the recorded sayings of the Prophet Muhammad.**
Please quote in the OT that Abraham formally married Hagar and took her as a legitimate wife.http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
Salaam/peace
Genesis 16:3
… Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.
Genesis 16:2-4 (in Context) Genesis 16 (Whole Chapter)
biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Hagar&qs_version=31