Ask about Islam round 3!

[planten]

Ishmael was never been a legitimate son of Abraham as Hagar was never been a legitimate wife of Abraham. You are correct.

**swariffin and Jay53, please tell why was not Hagar a legitimate wife of Abraham? Give your reasons. Thanks.

Do you mean that Abraham and Hagar should have gone to a church to get married in front of a Catholic priest? What was the mode of marriage in those very early days. Was there any religious book (of law) in those days which was to be followed?. Please name that book. Thanks all the more.

Jesus was not born yet. And Moses was also not there. So what are you trying to get at? Do you want to formulate some method of marriage for Abraham, and the very early people?
**

 

[swariffin]

** W_stewart, Muhammad was not a great traveller. Yet it is surprising that he knew all the intricate history of the Jews. The proof is the Quran. It is believed by all the Muslims that God revealed all information (every word) of the Quran to the prophet Muhammad.

**

My dear brother, Paar mentioned that Muhammad travelled a lot with his uncle around the land of Arabia. Surely the land of Arabia is much wider than the city of Mecca.

 

[swariffin]

** J C, what do you mean by that? It is clearly written that Sarai gave Hagar to Abraham to be his wife. Wife means a wife, not any sexual part only. Do you mean that Abaraham was starving for a sexual partner? Or sarai was unable to provide sex to Abraham?

We see that the children of Jacob born out of servants were inheriting from the father and they are all included in the twelve legal tribes of Israel.

Also we believe that Sarai was completely surrendered and fallen down as an incompetent, incapable person for Abraham. She (sarai) was fully defeated. In complete hopelessness Sarai admiited her failure and resorted to take help from Hagar, knowing well what her husband Abaraham will do to Hagar.

She knew that he would sleep with Hagar and the purpose was not any sex matter. The purpose was to get some children. Abraham was 86 years old and Sarai could not bear any children.

Well, when some one (Hagar) helps and brings happiness in the house, the people of the house start disgusting, disturbing her on flimsy grounds. That is not fair. What wrong did Hagar do to get all the blames?

Just be fair and reply please.**

Please quote the OT that Abraham took Hagar formally as a wife.

 

[swariffin]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

holy Quran did not mention each & every details of teachings of all Prophets (pbut). The most important message/ point is mentioned in Quran that all Prophets taught God is one , God is greater than All.

Prophet Muhammed (p) said , Jesus (p) will get married after his second coming & will have kids.

In this case you agreed that that the Jesus, son of Mary was not marry and never been married. If you said “will”, I will not argue this, as it is something in the future, and is a matter of personal opinion of Muhammad.

 

[planten]

Please quote the OT that Abraham took Hagar formally as a wife.

**swariffin, I do not understand your formality. What would satsify your formality that Hagar should be offered to Abraham in a plate and he should bend down low and he should declare his acceptance?? Or Abraham should celebrate the marriage and invite all of you to the marriage party?? Then you will be satisfied? Please elaborate.

Do you know how was sarai married to Abraham? What procedure was followed? And what procedure was followed for Issac and Jacob?

According to you, Hagar was not any legal wife of Abraham. So she must be an illegal wife, if there can be any illegal wife. I cannot see how there can be any illegal wife. According to you, Abraham was misusing Hagar and it would be a case of adultry for Abraham. What do you say, please??
**

 

[swariffin]

**swariffin and Jay53, please tell why was not Hagar a legitimate wife of Abraham? Give your reasons. Thanks.

Do you mean that Abraham and Hagar should have gone to a church to get married in front of a Catholic priest? What was the mode of marriage in those very early days. Was there any religious book (of law) in those days which was to be followed?. Please name that book. Thanks all the more.

Jesus was not born yet. And Moses was also not there. So what are you trying to get at? Do you want to formulate some method of marriage for Abraham, and the very early people?
**

(1) Genesis 21:12, God stated that Hagar was a servant of Abraham. (2) Abraham sent Hagar away with Ishmael, without any mentioning of Abraham divorcing Hagar before. There was no need for a divorce if there was no legal marriage before. (3) Hagar left without any split of properties belong to the divorced wife. A rather cruel description, but showing that God was indeed fair.

 

[swariffin]

**swariffin, I do not understand your formality. What would satsify your formality that Hagar should be offered to Abraham in a plate and he should bend down low and he should declare his acceptance?? Or Abraham should celebrate the marriage and invite all of you to the marriage party?? Then you will be satisfied? Please elaborate.

Do you know how was sarai married to Abraham? What procedure was followed? And what procedure was followed for Issac and Jacob?

According to you, Hagar was not any legal wife of Abraham. So she must be an illegal wife, if there can be any illegal wife. I cannot see how there can be any illegal wife. According to you, Abraham was misusing Hagar and it would be a case of adultry for Abraham. What do you say, please??
**

A legal marriage must be conducted in accordance with the local tradition and culture of such local people. Don’t think that Abraham and Sara live in the middle of nowhere, or there was no local culture or there was no other human being at that time.
For sure, a man sleeping with a woman does not necessarily mean legal marriage. Otherwise, there is no difference between human and animal.

 

[w_stewart]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

holy Quran did not mention each & every details of teachings of all Prophets (pbut). The most important message/ point is mentioned in Quran that all Prophets taught God is one , God is greater than All.

Prophet Muhammed (p) said , Jesus (p) will get married after his second coming & will have kids.

That’s interesting! Did Mohammed mention when will Jesus come back and get married?

 

[Sam_777]

Number four (4) is the book of Mirzha Ghulam Ahmad.

 

[Sam_777]

But there are Muslims who do not adhere to the teachings of hadiths in general. Those who oppose allege that the hadiths are mere oral traditions whose authenticity is highly questionable.

They are called Ahmadiyya and Quranics, they are heretical groups and don’t represent more than 1% of the Muslims (if you consider them to be Muslims in the first place ).

 

[Eucharisted]

Could you please list the hadiths which are not authentic (if any)?

 

[w_stewart]

They are called Ahmadiyya and Quranics, they are heretical groups and don’t represent more than 1% of the Muslims (if you consider them to be Muslims in the first place ).

Interesting! Can you provide proofs that these groups are heretical?

Are these groups parallel to the Sola Scripturists in Christianity?

 

[Sam_777]

Sam_777, you are wrong about the hadith being the source of Muslim rituals. The Quran is number 1 source of all information and guidance.

I suggest before accusing me of being wrong is to consult an Arabic cleric .

Nobody learns the prayer matters and ablution (Wudhu) by the books of Hadith.

Here are two complete books by Bukhari teaching how to perform prayer and ablution:

Sahih Bukhari, Book 12:
Characteristics of Prayer

Sahih Bukhari, Book 4:
Ablutions (Wudu’)

 

[w_stewart]

Sam, is it not that Ahmadiyya accepts the authority of hadiths?

 

[Sam_777]

Sam, is it not that Ahmadiyya accepts the authority of hadiths?

It seems they take whatever suit them and reject the rest, however, we have two members here “planten” & “paarsurrey”, maybe they can answer your question in details.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

That’s interesting! Did Mohammed mention when will Jesus come back and get married?

Jesus (p) will come back before the end time. Quran says : He is a Sign of the Hour. Have no doubt about it. But follow me. This is a straight path. (Surat az-Zukhruf: 61)

There is not one of the People of the Book who will not believe in him before he dies; and on the Day of Rising he will be a witness against them. (Surat an Nisa: 159)

related links :

Antichrist and the Second Coming of Jesus

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544804

 

[w_stewart]

It seems they take whatever suit them and reject the rest, however, we have two members here “planten” & “paarsurrey”, maybe they can answer your question in details.

Okay

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

Salvation by Proxy?

Yasir - Bahrain:One Christian told me that if I embraced Christianity I would be saved from the fire of Hell

Shahul Hameed:… Christian belief about “salvation” through the death of God:

Christians believe that every human child is born with the taint of the Original Sin…Martin Luther, the initiator of Protestantism, said that a believer in atonement might sin to his fill, for he was sure to be saved.

…Allah Almighty in the Qur’an warns the Believers about this very menace in the verse which gives the meaning of:

And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah’s guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper. (Al-Baqarah 2:120)

May Allah help us and guide us aright!

Useful Links:

Is Islam the Continuation of Christianity?

The Unity of Divine Revelations

Islam and Christianity; Common Grounds…

True Teachings of Islam

Muslims and Christians; Different Creeds…

Comparing and Contrasting Islam and Christianity
[readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996016524](http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996016524)

 

[BPW75]

Doesn’t the fact that one of Mohammed’s several wives was only 9 years old bother you as Muslims? As a Christian, (hypothetically) the moment I found out that Jesus was married to a 9 year old, my better senses would say that it’s time to pursue truth and not tradition. It would be a wake up call. Isn’t truth more important than tradition?

 

[dzheremi]

Christians believe that every human child is born with the taint of the Original Sin…Martin Luther, the initiator of Protestantism, said that a believer in atonement might sin to his fill, for he was sure to be saved.

And Luther is rightly condemned by all Catholics and Orthodox for teachings such as this one, which are NOT representative of traditional Christianity.

I really, really, really wish that Muslims would have the opportunity or initiative to ask CHRISTIANS from the Apostolic traditions these questions, just as they request that we seek our information on Islam from Muslims themselves. The trouble is, of course, that many Muslims are not aware of the divisions within Christianity that will influence the sort of information they are given. The response at least mentioned Luther as the father of Protestantism, but apparently did not think it important enough to explain what this means. Perhaps he knew that explaining this (assuming that he could even do so fairly) might render the rest of his characterization irrelevant to the majority of world Christianity, or that it may in fact cause his questioner to further investigate Christianity.