Ask about Islam round 3!

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In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace
S_J_Thaikattil said:
… All the Jewish prophets were born in Israel, and Jesus was born in Israel too. Mecca and Medina are not in Israel.
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Jews have no monopoly over God’s mercy . We believe God sent Prophets to all nations.
Why should Muslims be so eager to correct Jewish and Christian Scripture?
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Some Jews & Christians take part in an Islamic forum where I regularly visit. Never saw other Jews & Christians are telling them , hey what are you doing in an Islamic forum ? Why u are so eager to tell Muslims that they are wrong etc etc.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Is it true that all prophets came in Arabia? And, what is language of Heaven?

Shahul Hameed:…The Qur’an clearly says that there was no People to whom a prophet was not sent, as mentioned in these verses, when they say what means:

{… and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past)} (Fatir 35:24)

{…to every people (there has been) a guide.} (Ar-Ra`d 13:7)

{We did aforetime send messengers before thee: of them there are some whose story We have related to thee, and some whose story We have not related to thee…} (Ghafir 40:78)

…Neither the Qur’an nor any authentic Hadith says that the language of Heaven is Arabic; nor is it an article of the Islamic faith. As life in Heaven is going to be different from this life, we need not expect to have any problem there about language or communication. This is because Heaven will be “a place” or “an experience” transcending all the contingencies and limitations of our earthly life; and Allah is Wise and Powerful.

We must also remember that His justice encompasses all. So, there is no question of His doing any kind of injustice to any people who do not speak Arabic for that matter.

And Allah knows best.

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1129443837947
 
S_J_Thaikattil said:
Muslim Woman and other Muslims posting on this thread:

While I respect Muslims and your free will to accept Quran as the infallible word of Allah, and Mohammad as your last prophet, I think it is somewhat strange to tell a Christian that they have got their own Scripture wrong. How would Muslims like it if someone in a country far away from Mecca suddenly came along and said that Muslims have got their Scripture all wrong? All the Jewish prophets were born in Israel, and Jesus was born in Israel too. Mecca and Medina are not in Israel.

Let the Jews have their Scripture and their interpretation of their own Scripture and let Christians have theirs. Why should Muslims be so eager to correct Jewish and Christian Scripture?
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This was basically my view too - let everyone live in peace to worship God the way they want. Even now, I think everyone should be free to practice their own religion. Leave everyone else alone. Pray for those who don’t believe and the Holy Spirit will guide them to the Truth. Islam, however, does not allow for this. True Muslims are to fight the unbelievers until they either willingly convert to Islam or live in a submissive/humiliated position subject to Islamic laws. Sister Amy has pointed out that those Muslims who do not agree with jihad and all this fighting are not true Muslims, but “pseudo-Muslims”. They cannot choose to believe only the peaceful parts of Islam. It’s all or nothing.
Quran 9:29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
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Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’”
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And, growing up, I never fully understood one of the Beatitudes and how it would apply to my life.
“Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when men reproach you, and persecute you, and speaking falsely, say all manner of evil against you, for my sake. Rejoice and exult, because your reward is great in heaven; for so did they persecute the prophets who were before you.” Matthew 5:10-12
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After studying a little of Islam, NOW I understand. 😦 So, now, in addition to praying for the conversion of unbelievers that they may be guided to Jesus and the Truth, I also pray for perseverance in faith - that Satan may not lead me and other Christians astray and that God will protect us from all evil. (as in the Lord’s Prayer, …lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.")
 
S_J_Thaikattil said:
Why should Muslims be so eager to correct Jewish and Christian Scripture?
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Because there are stories, like the one of Moses, in the Qur’an that have been borrowed from the Bible; however, there are differences between the two, since the memories of some uneducated women of the 7th century where the main sources of the Quran.

Historically speaking, Islam is the “new kid on the block” as far as religions go, so it has to prove itself. [Some call it a “me-too” religion.]

Muslims had to invent the excuse that the Bible had been corrupted to explain those differences. [Page down to “How can you argue that the Bible is not corrupted…”].
 
sedonaman said:
Because there are stories, like the one of Moses, in the Qur’an that have been borrowed from the Bible; however, there are differences between the two, since the memories of some uneducated women of the 7th century where the main sources of the Quran.

Historically speaking, Islam is the “new kid on the block” as far as religions go, so it has to prove itself. [Some call it a “me-too” religion.]

Muslims had to invent the excuse that the Bible had been corrupted to explain those differences. [Page down to “How can you argue that the Bible is not corrupted…”].
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Hi - I could not open your links - can someone else see if they can open them just to confirm it’s not my end… 😉

Thanks!
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace
jakasaki said:
… I wonder if our muslim members will comment on the articles… 🤷
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read this funny line: uneducated women of the 7th century, who are the main sources of the Quran…why it’s so hard for Christians to make up mind ? Sometimes they say Quran is from devil , sometimes they claim Muhamed (p) learnt it from Jews & Christinas , here they are accusing uneducated women are the main sources of the Quran? lol

related info:



watch Quran video

islamtomorrow.com/downloads/index.asp

Watch scientists comments on the scientific miracles in the Quran.

Prof. Gerald G. Goeringer “…this description antedates by many centuries the recording of … traditional scientific literature.”

Prof. William W. Hey “I would think it must be [from] the divine being.” 29

Prof. T. V. N. Persaud "…this is a divine inspiration or revelation

islamyesterday.com/science/
 
Muslim_Woman said:
**
Watch scientists comments on the scientific miracles in the Quran.

Prof. Gerald G. Goeringer “…this description antedates by many centuries the recording of … traditional scientific literature.”

Prof. William W. Hey “I would think it must be [from] the divine being.” 29

Prof. T. V. N. Persaud "…this is a divine inspiration or revelation

islamyesterday.com/science/**

Obviously taken out of context.

Once more:

“Three things are absolutely essential for science, including modem sciences. One must understand that:

a. The world exists independent of us and is orderly.
b. We can understand it.
c. We should have no aversion to observing and working with nature (in particular to do experiments).
“One of the most quoted verses of the Bible in the Catholic Middle Ages was: ‘God has ordered all things in measure, number, and weight.’ As for items ‘b’ and ‘c’ above, Catholicism has always emphasized the dignity of the human person, which it attributes especially to man’s ability to reason and understand starting from nature; its sacramental system manifests its belief in the necessity of the physical for man. The historians R.R. Palmer and Colton make the contrast with the culture of Islam, for example, that finally decided it was not okay to analyze the world in rational terms. Use of reason and its effectiveness in understanding this world were ultimately against the cult(ure), for according to Islam, Allah is sovereign in a sense that excludes secondary causes; according to that culture, Allah’s activity is completely inscrutable to man. …

‘If any historical generalization may be made safely, it may be safely said that any society that believes reason to threaten its foundations will suppress reason. [St.] Thomas’ doctrine … gave freedom to thinkers to go on thinking. Here Latin Christendom [Catholicism] may be contrasted with the Muslim world. It was ruled, in about the time of Thomas Aquinas, that… the Gate was closed. Arabic thought, so brilliant for several centuries, went into decline.’"
Ref: Dr. Anthony Rizzi, The Science Before Science, page 187.

Therefore, there is no science in the Qur’an.

I might add that any society that suppresses reason is one that knows it will fall if it ceases that suppression.
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sedonaman said:
Because there are stories, like the one of Moses, in the Qur’an that have been borrowed from the Bible; however, there are differences between the two, since the memories of some uneducated women of the 7th century where the main sources of the Quran.
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bad habit, bad logic. If the Quran supports something of the bible as true, you will say, “O it is copied from bible.” If the Quran vehemently rejects (Disagrees) with the bible you will say, " Look, it is wrong." Quran has not borrowed or copied anything from the bible. Bible has got nothing to give to any one.
Historically speaking, Islam is the “new kid on the block” as far as religions go, so it has to prove itself. [Some call it a “me-too” religion.]
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You still need proof for Islam. Please open your eyes and see more than 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. They are active believers in One God. There is no mystery in Islam.
Muslims had to invent the excuse that the Bible had been corrupted to explain those differences. [Page down to “How can you argue that the Bible is not corrupted…”].
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There is no need to invent any excuse. The change in the bible teachings, away from the original Jewish teachings and the christians discarding the law is a good proof that some one played havoc with the original Jesus beliefs.

I can assure you that if ever Jesus came back to this world now (And he is never coming again), he would not be able to recognise his own people, his own teachings.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
Watch scientists comments on the scientific miracles in the Quran.

Prof. Gerald G. Goeringer “…this description antedates by many centuries the recording of … traditional scientific literature.”
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So what does that prove? Lots of things antedate traditional scientific literature. The Greeks recorded a lot of scientific literature 1,000 years before Mohammed, so this is false on its face.
Prof. William W. Hey “I would think it must be [from] the divine being.” 29
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Prof. T. V. N. Persaud "…this is a divine inspiration or revelation
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These are what are known as “authorities out of their fields,” a logical fallacy. Example:
Code: 
You can believe the moon is covered with dust because the president of our neighborhood association said so, and he should know.
This is a fallacious appeal to authority because, although the president is an authority on many neighborhood matters, he is no authority on the composition of the moon. It would be better to appeal to some astronomer or geologist. Ref: iep.utm.edu/f/fallacy.htm#Appeal%20to%20Authority

Scientists are not necessarily theologians. Other examples include asking Jennine Garaflalo about the Just War Doctrine, or consulting Barbra Streisand on what the best foreign policy is for the U.S. – Entertainers might be experts in the entertainment business, but not necessarily in other unrelated fields.

Why are all Muslim arguments logical fallacies?
 
planten said:
bad habit, bad logic. If the Quran supports something of the bible as true, you will say, “O it is copied from bible.” If the Quran vehemently rejects (Disagrees) with the bible you will say, " Look, it is wrong." Quran has not borrowed or copied anything from the bible. Bible has got nothing to give to any one.

You still need proof for Islam. Please open your eyes and see more than 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. They are active believers in One God. There is no mystery in Islam.

There is no need to invent any excuse. The change in the bible teachings, away from the original Jewish teachings and the christians discarding the law is a good proof that some one played havoc with the original Jesus beliefs.

I can assure you that if ever Jesus came back to this world now (And he is never coming again), he would not be able to recognise his own people, his own teachings.
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Tell us when the koran quotes something and we have said it was true.

Oh wow, now this is the new excuse as to why you are unable to prove the Bible is corrupted? Nice try - but it is an excuse. The koran is based on the mohammed saying the Bible was corrupted and mohammed didn’t have a clue as to what it really said. He couldn’t read and he was raised a pagan - not a Christian or a Jew.

FAQ by muslims
How can you argue that the Bible is not corrupted in the light of the existence of so many different versions of the Bible?
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The different versions of the Bible, are different translations, using different languages and different dialects. All these translations are taken from the original texts and have been done by experts as accurately as humanly possible. If there are variations in the wording of the texts they are because of the different shades of meanings that the original words could carry. However, the essence of the Bible is the same. The same situation applies also to the Quran. There are many translations of the Quran, which differ from one another and those who don’t speak Arabic have to rely on the translations.
The claim of the corruption of the Bible is an idea that Muslims had to invent to justify the many discrepancies of the Quran when compared to the Bible. For somebody to claim that the Bible in our hands is corrupt, they must be able to present the correct copy as evidence. There is no such correct copy of the Bible other than the one we have. Extant (currently existing) manuscripts of the Bible dating to the 4th and 5th centuries – long before the birth of Islam – are found to agree completely with the text we now have. The oldest extant fragment of the book of John dates to about 125 A.D.
The Quran actually testified to the validity of the Bible and repeatedly said so (see Sura 4:47; 2: 41, 91; 20:133; 29:46). Accordingly, Muslims can not argue that Christians and Jews corrupted their Bible before the birth of Islam.
On the other hand, It is inconceivable that the corruption of the Bible took place after Islam, either. It was virtually impossible for this to have happened, seven centuries after the birth of Christianity, and after Christianity had spread all over the world. By that time Christianity had divided into many denominations that were not even talking to one another, much less sitting down together and agreeing on a conspiracy to forge their Book. Also, how could they have kept this conspiracy a secret without having somebody coming out and disclosing it? This, in addition to the fact that the Bible had by then been translated into many languages, and so to corrupt the Bible one would have had to collect all the existing Bibles in the world and destroy them, which would have been impossible to do.
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But, but - you guys say Jesus is indeed coming back! You can’t have it both ways planten. There is a muslim moron in Iran, Ahmadinejad, who is trying to hurry up His Second Coming because he thinks it will prove that islam is the correct religion and they will be saved. hhhmmm, and all you muslims forget about predestination in islam. You all have already been predestined for heaven or hell.
 
planten said:
bad habit, bad logic. If the Quran supports something of the bible as true, you will say, “O it is copied from bible.” If the Quran vehemently rejects (Disagrees) with the bible you will say, " Look, it is wrong." Quran has not borrowed or copied anything from the bible. Bible has got nothing to give to any one.
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I don’t need the Qur’an to support the Bible. The Bible and its message got along just fine before the Qur’an and would exist today as is even if there never was a Qur’an or Islam.
You still need proof for Islam. Please open your eyes and see more than 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. They are active believers in One God.
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I don’t need to prove anything about Islam. It has to make its own case, and I might add that it is doing a pretty wretched job of it so far.

And how many times do I have to say that the number of Muslims does not prove Islam is true? The world use to be filled with people who believed the earth was flat and the sun went around it, but that didn’t make it true. The test of the truth [most correctly the lack thereof] of Islam is in its message: “Kill the unbeliever.”
There is no mystery in Islam.
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Yes, there is, and that mystery is why there are 1.5 billion people willing to believe it.
There is no need to invent any excuse.
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Obviously there is. Mohammed borrowed from the pagans, the Jews, and the Christians. His successors had to explain differences between the way Mohammed’s uneducated women remembered what he said and what Jewish and Christian scriptures say. How could such people remember hearsay?
The change in the bible teachings, away from the original Jewish teachings and the christians discarding the law is a good proof that some one played havoc with the original Jesus beliefs.
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This makes no sense. Jesus taught Christian ideas that discarded the Jewish law which proved he played havoc with his own teachings? What kind of logic is that?
I can assure you that if ever Jesus came back to this world now (And he is never coming again), he would not be able to recognise his own people, his own teachings.
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If he couldn’t recognize his own people, it would be because they are not following his teachings. Does that make his message bad? As far as recognizing his own teachings, what is there not to recognize about “Love God with your whole heart, whole mind, and whole soul, and your neighbor as yourself”?
 
Muslim_Woman said:
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Jews have no monopoly over God’s mercy . We believe God sent Prophets to all nations.

.
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please give me a list of prophets , sent to China,India,Europe,America:D .If God really sent Prophets to all nations, then Why God did not sent Prophets to rest of the world except Israel and Mecca(according to Muslims)?Oh now you will say that Muhammed is a prophet who was sent to the whole world,correct?;). Then why God sent that so called universal prophet Muhammed to Arabs?Since all prophets are Jewish then why God sent his last and greatest prophet as a pagan?To deceive people?Why God broke the tradition?
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace
morning_star777 said:
please give me a list of prophets
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25 Prophets are mentioned there by names . I think I posted that earlier . Ok , if u want , InshaAllah do that again.

About all names – Think logically. If all names were there
( thousands & thousands ) , then Quran would have become a list book only .
Since all prophets are Jewish
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God promised mankind that all Prophets will be Jews only ? Why u think Jews have monopoly over mercy of God ? Muslims believe God’s mercy is for ALL.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
Think logically.
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Good idea. We’ve been waiting for Muslim posters here to make an argument without using a fallacy.
God promised mankind that all Prophets will be Jews only ? Why u think Jews have monopoly over mercy of God ? Muslims believe God’s mercy is for ALL.
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See what I mean? You are saying that prophets and mercy are the same thing. They are not.
 
This thread doesn’t seemed conserned about actually explaining Islamic beliefs to those who aren’t muslim. My question was never replied to except by Catholics. Muslims it seems do not want a serious discussion of beliefs and practices and rational debate.
 
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