Ask about Islam round 3!

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Hartman - Germany : War Ethics in Islam

Ans. Allah Almighty says: “To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged; and verily God is most powerful for their aid.” (Al-Hajj:39)

The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have said: “Beware of the prayer of the oppressed; for there is no barrier between it and Allah.”

… a woman was found killed, and this was denounced by the Prophet saying “She did not fight”

…The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, used to instruct his commanding chiefs saying: “Fight in the cause of Allah. Fight those who deny Allah; Do not be embittered. Do not be treacherous. Do not mutilate. Do not kill children or those (people) in convents.”

…Allah Almighty says: “ O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do.” (Al-Maidah: 8)

…Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, ordered his Companions saying: “ You should be good to the captives.”

Abu Aziz-ibn Umair, one of the captives of Badr battle, recalls:

“Whenever I sat with my captors for lunch or dinner, they would offer me the bread and themselves the dates, in view of the Prophet’s recommendation in our favor (in that desert situation bread was the more luxurious item of food than dates)

As soon as any of them held a piece of bread, he would offer it to me. “Feeling shy, I would give it back to one of them but he would immediately return it to me.”

Another, Thumama ibn-Athal, was taken prisoner and brought to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, who said: “Be good to him in his captivity.” When the Prophet went home he instructed to collect whatever food there, and ordered it sent to the prisoner.

When the Jewish tribe of Bani Qurayzah were captured, loads of dates were regularly carried to them, with the Prophet’s instructions to shelter them from the summer sun and to provide them with water to drink.

The Fate of War Prisoners:

This was based upon the teaching of the Qur’an:

“Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.” (Muhammad: 4)

According to Islamic law, the captive belongs to the state and not to his captor. The ruler has the ultimate option, as he sees fit, of granting freedom or doing that after taking a ransom.

Among those whom the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, granted freedom was a poet called Abu-Azza who said to the Prophet: “I have five daughters who have no one to support them, so give me away to them as a charity and I promise never to fight you or help your enemies.

Abul-As Ibn Al Rabiae was freed for a ransom, which the Prophet later returned back to him. Later, the man embraced Islam.

Umarna Ibn-Athal was set free upon his promise not to provide the enemy with food. This gentle treatment touched the man’s heart and was then converted to Islam saying to the Prophet: "There was a time when your face was the most hated face to me, and there comes a day when it is the most loved.”

to read the full ans , pl. visit

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503545840&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

 

[planten]

**J C, I do not remember having said anything wrong about Ikrama son of Abu jehl. He was condemned to die and he ran away to a far place. His wife was a believer. She approached the prophet and asked forgiveness for her husband as she loved him so much. The prophet forgave Ikrama. So the wife went after him looking for him and persuaded him to come back to Makkah.

This thing is well known. I do not known what I have said wrong at any time. Please indicate.**

 

[chrisse]

What does ‘Islam’ mean?

The Arabic word ‘Islam’ simply means ‘submission’, and derives from a word meaning ‘peace’. **In a religious context it means complete submission **to the will of God. ‘Mohammedanism’ is thus a misnomer because it suggests that Muslims worship Muhammad rather than God. ‘Allah’ is the Arabic name for God, which is used by Arab Muslims and Christians alike.

Ref: islamicity.com/Mosque/uiatm/un_islam.htm

Well, I used to think “submission” as well, but apparently not. It means “surrender”. I don’t have a source for this; but the other day this issue was discussed. Need to go into this further.

 

[planten]

J C, Yes, converting through the threats would be false report. I am sure about that. Thanks.

 

[Sam_777]

Also , the prophet had said ." Acquire knowledge even if you have to go to China."

No, Muhammed never said such a thing, what you are quoting is a fake hadith (I thought generally you don’t believe in hadiths!!!), anyway here are the references:

English:
“If there is one so-claimed hadith (Prophetic saying) that has gotten extensive coinage, I have to say it is this one. And though the message of seeking knowledge is consistent with the Prophetic teachings, unfortunately this hadith is likely not Prophetic. It is also somewhat amusing that some of the leading opponents of hadith still love to quote this one…”

Arabic1:

أما الحديث المذكور وهو حديث : ( اطلبوا العلم ولو بالصين ، فإن طلب العلم فريضة على كل مسلم )

قال الشيخ الألباني في ضعيف الجامع ( موضوع ) برقم (906)
​

Arabic2:

حديث اطلبوا العلم ولو بالصين أخرجه ابن عدي والبيهقي في المدخل والشعب من حديث أنس. وقال البيهقي: متنه مشهور وأسانيده ضعيفه. وقال الإمام المناوي في فيض القدير: قال ابن حبان: باطل لا أصل له والحسن ضعيف وأبو عاتكة منكر الحديث
​

 

[sedonaman]

Here is logical proof that Islam lacks a concept of the Golden Rule and therefore is a false dogma, a heresy:

Any one and every one who has not uttered the Kalima [the Muslim oath] is not a Kafir. Only those to whom the message of Islam is presented peacefully and given enough time to understand it, if they (or He) tries to not believe and tries to fight the Muslims and Islam and wages war against Islam and does not let others believe, he is a Kafir, described in the verses in a lose [loose] manner as a disbeliever.

He is not a simple disbeliever but a fanatic hostile disbeliever in Islam.

[H]e deserves to be killed because he is already on war path against Islam. What problem do you have against the enemies.?] We do not believe in your false theory of “Love thy enemy”. We can be kind to the enemy depending on the situation if kindness will help him to improve his ways.

If our kindness will spoil him more then we will not be kind with him. This our teaching is different to the teaching of the church “Love thy enemy”… Nobody can always do that and it is not fair to love all the enemies all the time.

Suppose, just suppose that non-Muslims adopted Islam’s philosophy described by planten and treated Muslims as he would treat kafirs/unbleivers? Suppose the Bible said,

Any one and every one who has not been baptized is not a [Hated, or fill in some other worse word in the human language] one. Only those to whom the message of Christianity is presented peacefully and given enough time to understand it, if they (or He) tries to not believe and tries to fight the Christians and Truth and wages war against Truth and does not let others believe, he is a [Hated, or fill in some other worse word in the human language] one, described in the verses in a loose manner as a disbeliever [or heretic].

He is not a simple disbeliever but a fanatic hostile disbeliever [or heretic] in Christianity.

[H]e deserves to be killed because he is already on war path against Christianity. What problem do you have against the enemies? We do not believe in your false theory of “wish for your brother”. We can be kind to the enemy depending on the situation if kindness will help him to improve his ways.

If our kindness will spoil him more then we will not be kind with him. This our teaching is different to the teaching of the Qur’an “wish for your brother”… Nobody can always do that and it is not fair to treat Muslims nice all the time.

?

Then there are the much maligned Crusades. If what planten says is true about Islamic beliefs, Muslims have no complaint about the Crusades; what goes around comes around. You have to expect back what you dish out.

Then Muslim Woman complains that,

In the West specially USA , Muslims are criminals unless proven innocent.

She and Sister Amy also complain about the way they are treated on this forum.

Now aren’t these simply a desire to be treated the same as others are treated, i.e., with human dignity? How can they expect equal treatment if they don’t believe in treating others as they wishes to be treated?

Do Muslims possess sufficient abstract thought to see that they are complaining about the exact thing they are advocating, and what the world would be like if everyone treated “The Other” as kafirs?

Wouldn’t the Islamic way be just a peachy keen way to run the world? How can there be “peace” if Islam treats even some of its own like kafirs?

 

[planten]

** JC, Sorry. I cannot understand what you are trying to tell me. I hope not that I have changed my mind on something important. Unless that thing is shown to me, I would not understand it. So could we close this chapter please**.

 

[chrisse]

She and Sister Amy also complain about the way they are treated on this forum.

Yes, they do. No doubt I’m amongst the top, if not the top, of their list. However, this is just another example of islamic hypocrisy. They know full well that if we joined an islamic forum we would be immediately banned from it if we denied the prophethood of mohammed (for example) as blatently as they deny the Divinity of our Lord.

It’s time they accepted they are in a Catholic forum; it’s time they accepted we are not dhimmi’s whose behaviour is under the control of their islamic masters. It’s time they reflected on the suffering of those human beings who are living as dhimmi’s under islamic law and understand what little harrassment they think they receive here by some of us, is nothing compared to the persecution and suffering of REAL human beings NOW in islamic majority countries.

 

[planten]

Here is logical proof that Islam lacks a concept of the Golden Rule and therefore is a false dogma, a heresy:

Suppose, just suppose that non-Muslims adopted Islam’s philosophy described by planten and treated Muslims as he would treat kafirs/unbleivers? Suppose the Bible said,

Any one and every one who has not been baptized is not a [Hated, or fill in some other worse word in the human language] one. Only those to whom the message of Christianity is presented peacefully and given enough time to understand it, if they (or He) tries to not believe and tries to fight the Christians and Truth and wages war against Truth and does not let others believe, he is a [Hated, or fill in some other worse word in the human language] one, described in the verses in a loose manner as a disbeliever [or heretic].

He is not a simple disbeliever but a fanatic hostile disbeliever [or heretic] in Christianity.

[H]e deserves to be killed because he is already on war path against Christianity. What problem do you have against the enemies? We do not believe in your false theory of “wish for your brother”. We can be kind to the enemy depending on the situation if kindness will help him to improve his ways.

If our kindness will spoil him more then we will not be kind with him. This our teaching is different to the teaching of the Qur’an “wish for your brother”… Nobody can always do that and it is not fair to treat Muslims nice all the time.

?

Then there are the much maligned Crusades. If what planten says is true about Islamic beliefs, Muslims have no complaint about the Crusades; what goes around comes around. You have to expect back what you dish out.

**sedonaman, you have completely missed the message. I said “Any one to whom the message of Islam is passed peacefully…” It means those to whom the message is not passed are not “Kaafir”. Okay? You agree. They are also non-believers but they are not Kaafir.

After getting the message peacefully, if a person does not believe and does not accept Islam, there is no harm. I did not say that such a person is a Kafir. He is a non-belieevr or disbeliever. But I did not say he is a Kaafir. Are you happy?

Only those who understand the message and then take up arms and fight Islam with their might and money… What would you like to call them? They are also disbelievers. But of a different kind. What would you like to call them? Islam calls them Kaafir.

It is alright as you said that the christians give their message peacefully to every Muslim in the world. If nobody believes but nobody opposes then you should not fight them. Okay?

Only if some Muslims come to kill you or fight against you then you have the right to deal with them as you like. but beware. You have no right to harm them at all. Because you are a christian. And you formula is “Love thy enemy”. So it would be necessary for you while acting on your formula of Love to go and kiss those Muslim enemies. Would you please do that? I hope so, in my opinion. Youa re not allowed to harm them. If you do you will be acting against the techings of church.**

**Sis Amy and Muslim Woman may be right to complain to you about your bad behavior. I may reply to your problem of the Crusades later on. That horrible example of " Love Thy Enemy ". **

 

[chrisse]

**sedonaman, you have completely missed the message. I said “Any one to whom the message of Islam is passed peacefully…” It means those to whom the message is not passed are not “Kaafir”. Okay? You agree. They are also non-believers but they are not Kaafir.

After getting the message peacefully, if a person does not believe and does not accept Islam, there is no harm. I did not say that such a person is a Kafir. He is a non-belieevr or disbeliever. But I did not say he is a Kaafir. Are you happy?

Only those who understand the message and then take up arms and fight Islam with their might and money… What would you like to call them? They are also disbelievers. But of a different kind. What would you like to call them? Islam calls them Kaafir.**
All the peaceful verses in the qur’an are abrograted. In fact for a muslim they MUST first make the offer to non-muslims to convert to Islam, as well as explain it to them. If the non-muslims then refuse -

1. Fight them and slaughter them until they are defeated;
2. Then offer them -
   2.1 Conversion;
   2.2 Dhimmitude;
   2.3 Death.

To a muslim mind, warped as it is with the false islamic doctrine, this apparently qualifies are no compulsion in religion.

It is alright as you said that the christians give their message peacefully to every Muslim in the world. If nobody believes but nobody opposes then you should not fight them. Okay?

Absolutely incorrect. There is nothing in the Lord’s Word that we cannot defend ourselves from physical attack. That would be suicide, which is strictly forbidden. We cannot do so beyond our moral values, but to claim “no right to harm them at all”, is simply laughable as a concept of self-defence.

**Sis Amy and Muslim Woman may be right to complain to you about your bad behavior. I may reply to your problem of the Crusades later on. That horrible example of " Love Thy Enemy ". **

As we have the right to complain about Sister Amy and Muslim Woman’s bad behaviour. However, we are not cowards who run to mummy when we have caused the discontent shown towards us. We defend our position, and if we are proven to be wrong, we should accept that we are incorrect. We are, as Christians, not to enable sin - a concept I’m not sure you understand.

You can most certainly raise a thread on the Crusades. And I can most certainly call you a hypocrit and, if applicable (which it probably will be) a liar.

 

[R_not]

**sedonaman, you have completely missed the message. I said “Any one to whom the message of Islam is passed peacefully…” It means those to whom the message is not passed are not “Kaafir”. Okay? You agree. They are also non-believers but they are not Kaafir.

After getting the message peacefully, if a person does not believe and does not accept Islam, there is no harm. I did not say that such a person is a Kafir. He is a non-belieevr or disbeliever. But I did not say he is a Kaafir. Are you happy?

Only those who understand the message and then take up arms and fight Islam with their might and money… What would you like to call them? They are also disbelievers. But of a different kind. What would you like to call them? Islam calls them Kaafir.

It is alright as you said that the christians give their message peacefully to every Muslim in the world. If nobody believes but nobody opposes then you should not fight them. Okay?

Only if some Muslims come to kill you or fight against you then you have the right to deal with them as you like. but beware. You have no right to harm them at all. Because you are a christian. And you formula is “Love thy enemy”. So it would be necessary for you while acting on your formula of Love to go and kiss those Muslim enemies. Would you please do that? I hope so, in my opinion. Youa re not allowed to harm them. If you do you will be acting against the techings of church.**

**Sis Amy and Muslim Woman may be right to complain to you about your bad behavior. I may reply to your problem of the Crusades later on. That horrible example of " Love Thy Enemy ". **

basically planten is giving us how we should behave as subjugated peoples (dhimmi). We should not harm them at all when they fight us. I guess we should have just laid down and continue to let the jihadists just attack civilians - just like everyone expects Israel to do the same. hamas is firing their bombs into Israel again and we notice no muslims rioting or killing Jews worldwide, and we notice no left wing idiot’s media coverage of it either. And all is good with the world - according to muslims.

And since planten’s words don’t ring true since any Christian caught saying things about Christ peacefully are killed in muslim lands, here is more deception.

And when we do indeed show the true nature of islam via its own texts and the behavior of muslims we are given excuses, told we are not Christians (and we don’t do anything physical to them at all - just tell the truth), or tu quoque as an excuse, etc.

And the Crusades, the neverending whining about them. Only called AFTER the bloodthirsty muslim hordes have murdered, enslaved, stolen, tortured, etc for centuries.

And then last but not least - muslim charities. The way those so called ‘peaceful’ ones give money to their violent ones while they are in other’s countries whining that they are the victims, that they are innocent, that the ones striking muslims are the aggressors, and… well, you know the M.O.

muslim texts that command deception:
suras 16:106, 3:28, 40:28, 2:225, 66:2
hadiths Bukhari 52:269, 49:857, 84:64-65, 52:271
from islamic law Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746)

 

[sedonaman]

It’s time they reflected on the suffering of those human beings who are living as dhimmis under Islamic law and understand what little harassment they think they receive here by some of us, is nothing compared to the persecution and suffering of REAL human beings NOW in Islamic majority countries.

“The term ‘human being’ has no meaning inside of Islam”. That’s why “Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule.”

 

[sedonaman]

Only those who understand the message and then take up arms and fight Islam with their might and money… What would you like to call them?

I call them smart.

Only if some Muslims come to kill you or fight against you then you have the right to deal with them as you like. but beware. You have no right to harm them at all. Because you are a christian. And you formula is “Love thy enemy”. So it would be necessary for you while acting on your formula of Love to go and kiss those Muslim enemies. Would you please do that? I hope so, in my opinion. Youa re not allowed to harm them.

Fortunately, your opinion doesn’t count. “Love thy enemy” doesn’t mean I have to let him kill me. That would be suicide, and suicide is a sin.

 

[sedonaman]

Sis Amy and Muslim Woman may be right to complain to you about your bad behavior.

Muslims have no room to complain if others treat them as they treat others. Muslims got exactly what they deserved from the Crusaders because they were only dishing you out some of your own Islamic medicine.

As a Muslim, you have absolutely no capability of abstract thought that allows you to put yourself in others’ shoes. Even stone-age American Indians excelled you Muslims with this prayer: “Great Spirit, let me not judge my fellow man until I walk a mile in his moccasins.”

So how can you claim to be “the best of peoples”?

 

[chrisse]

“The term ‘human being’ has no meaning inside of Islam”. That’s why “Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule.”

That’s why the Truth must be always be defended against those who melt like the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz with clean water.

 

[R_not]

That’s why the Truth must be always be defended against those who melt like the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz with clean water.

OMG! That was one of my favorite scenes!!

And the muslims squirm when the truth is told… and they bully, terrorize and threaten whenever they can. Ask Geert Wilders, Fr. Botros, Ayan Hirsi Ali, etc.

 

[sedonaman]

Ask Geert Wilders, Fr. Botros, Ayan Hirsi Ali, etc.

Speaking of Wilders …
americanthinker.com/2009/02/i_will_defend_to_the_death_the.html

 

[sedonaman]

If you do you will be acting against the techings of church.

P. S. If I let him kill me, I would be letting him commit the sin of murder, and I am not allowed to do that because I am my brother’s keeper.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Business Ethics in Islam

Muzammil Siddiqi :

…Allah Almighty says, [To the Madyan people (We sent) Shu’aib, one of their own brethren: he said: "O my people! Worship Allah: ye have no other god but Him. And give not short measure or weight: I see you in prosperity, but I fear for you the penalty of a day that will compass (you) all round. Hud 11:84-88

…Prophet Shuaib was sent among a people who were very much involved in business. These people were very proud of their business knowledge and success, but they were dishonest. ..Allah's punishment came upon those people and only Prophet Shuaib and his followers were saved.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) gave many teachings on business and economic issues, he covered almost every aspect of business and economics.

… Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, … Be careful of excessive oaths in a sale. Though it finds markets, it reduces abundance"…“When people cheat in weight and measures, their provision is cut off from them”… Prophet forbade monopolies. “Whoever monopolizes is a sinner”

...Transaction of haram items, such as intoxicants, are forbidden.

Related Questions: Justice and Compassion: Ethics and Our Responsibilities

Allah Almighty knows best.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145175679974&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar”]http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

 

[sedonaman]

Business Ethics in Islam

Muzammil Siddiqi :

…Allah Almighty says, [To the Madyan people (We sent) Shu’aib, one of their own brethren: he said: "O my people! Worship Allah: ye have no other god but Him. And give not short measure or weight: I see you in prosperity, but I fear for you the penalty of a day that will compass (you) all round. Hud 11:84-88

So? We know these rules apply only to business practices between Muslims:

“My power,” said the Dey of Algiers, “has been wrested from my hands; draw ye the treaty at your pleasure, and I will sign it; but beware of the moment, when I shall recover my power, for with that moment, your treaty shall be waste paper.”

He avowed what they [Muslims] always practiced, and would without scruple have practiced himself. Such is the spirit, which governs the hearts of men, to whom treachery and violence are taught as principles of religion.”

“John Quincy Adams Knew Jihad”

Prophet Muhamma gave many teachings on business and economic issues, he covered almost every aspect of business and economics.

Next you will tell us the law of supply and demand is in the Qur’an.
[/quote]