Ask about Islam round 3!

[chrisse]

Next you will tell us the law of supply and demand is in the Qur’an.

Yeah, of course it is - look at the best practise of slavery in Islam. White Christian women were the most expensive and desired slaves in Islam - they were harder to supply.

May all the millions who suffered persecution, death and enslavement at the hands of the muslim hordes driven by satan’s words, rest in peace with the Lord.

 

[R_not]

Business Ethics in Islam

Muzammil Siddiqi :

…Allah Almighty says, [To the Madyan people (We sent) Shu’aib, one of their own brethren: he said: "O my people! Worship Allah: ye have no other god but Him. And give not short measure or weight: I see you in prosperity, but I fear for you the penalty of a day that will compass (you) all round. Hud 11:84-88

…Prophet Shuaib was sent among a people who were very much involved in business. These people were very proud of their business knowledge and success, but they were dishonest. ..Allah's punishment came upon those people and only Prophet Shuaib and his followers were saved.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) gave many teachings on business and economic issues, he covered almost every aspect of business and economics.

… Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, … Be careful of excessive oaths in a sale. Though it finds markets, it reduces abundance"…“When people cheat in weight and measures, their provision is cut off from them”… Prophet forbade monopolies. “Whoever monopolizes is a sinner”

...Transaction of haram items, such as intoxicants, are forbidden.

Related Questions: Justice and Compassion: Ethics and Our Responsibilities

Allah Almighty knows best.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145175679974&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar”]http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

Does it really know best? It kept on lying. How do you trust it? Do all those things that you do really bypass predestination? Do the atrocities committed by muslims on other human beings really bypass predestination? Do you supporting those doing those artrocities against other human beings bypass predestination?

As for business practices by muslims… I would say that we can see what they did for muslim countries. hhhmmm, they have been stink holes of human backwardness for quite some time and only came forward in time when we entered the picture.

And then our business practices have given us, and even muslims, a much better chance at life.

So, what businesses practices do I really want to practice? I think I will leave the god who didn’t know too much about business, or economics, or even how to treat his own creatures and I will take our laws and business practices - they are far superior.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Zafar - United Kingdom

Does Islam permit Muslims to eat the foods made by non-Muslims? Can we have some non-Muslim friends?

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, President of the Fiqh Council of North America:

Muslims, as far as Islam is concerned, are allowed to eat the food prepared by any human being as long as it is clean, healthy and prepared with halal (lawful) ingredients. It is not the requirement of the Shari`ah to have Muslim cooks and Muslim food servers.

Also, there is nothing wrong in having non-Muslim friends as long as we do not compromise our faith and our Islamic rules for the sake of their friendship. We should also not take those as our friends who fight Islam and Muslims or who show hatred against Islam and Muslims.

It is worthy mentioning here that Islam teaches us that we should be friendly to all people. Islam teaches us that we should deal even with our enemies with justice and fairness. Allah Almighty says: [O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Informed of what ye do.] (Al-Ma’dah 5 :8)

In another place in the Qur’an, Allah Almigty says: [Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers. Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them (All) such are wrong doers.] (Al-Mumtahinah 60: 8-9)

Allah Almighty has described Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) as ‘a mercy’ to the worlds. He was a sign of Allah’s mercy to all, Muslims as well as non-Muslims.

In his kindness and fair treatment, he did not make any difference between the believers and non-believers. He was kind to the pagans of Makkah and fought them only when they fought him. He made treaties with the Jews of Madinah and honored the treaties until they broke them.

the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have received the Christians of Najran with kindness in his Masjid in Madinah.

Related Questions

• Eating Foods Prepared by Hindus
• Does Islam Forbid Befriending Non-Muslims?

Allah Almighty knows best.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503543298&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

 

[planten]

**I did not understand what you were charging me for. And I asked you but you have not told anything. You are ready to throw a charge of lying on me without any reason.

i believe you have nothing to say. You have no case that is why you are judging me in hurry.**

 

[planten]

All the peaceful verses in the qur’an are abrograted. In fact for a muslim they MUST first make the offer to non-muslims to convert to Islam, as well as explain it to them. If the non-muslims then refuse -

1. Fight them and slaughter them until they are defeated;
2. Then offer them -
   2.1 Conversion;
   2.2 Dhimmitude;
   2.3 Death.

** Wrong. All wrong and false propaganda (accusations). And there is no abrogation in the Quran. Please all note it.**

To a muslim mind, warped as it is with the false islamic doctrine, this apparently qualifies are no compulsion in religion.

** It is the golden principle of Islam i.e. “There is no compulsion in any religion.” Christians will need a new God to bring up something as good as that is in the Quran.**

Absolutely correct, a Christian has no basis in our Lord’s Word to take up arms and fight (physically) people who do not believe in the Lord.

Show me that from your bible, show me exactly what you have written or something near to that. Do not talk from your own head.

Absolutely incorrect. There is nothing in the Lord’s Word that we cannot defend ourselves from physical attack. That would be suicide, which is strictly forbidden. We cannot do so beyond our moral values, but to claim “no right to harm them at all”, is simply laughable as a concept of self-defence.

Again, you are talking from your own opinion while there is no such thing in the bible where your god Jesus mat have told you those things. I see that you have no religion. You are becoming an advocate for the book which is quiet on the subject.

As we have the right to complain about Sister Amy and Muslim Woman’s bad behaviour. However, we are not cowards who run to mummy when we have caused the discontent shown towards us. We defend our position, and if we are proven to be wrong, we should accept that we are incorrect. We are, as Christians, not to enable sin - a concept I’m not sure you understand

.

I cannot understand what you are saying. Muslim Woman and Sis Amy have been very nice compared to your behavior and illogical assertions..

You can most certainly raise a thread on the Crusades. And I can most certainly call you a hypocrit and, if applicable (which it probably will be) a liar.

You can call me what you like. No harm. I would not believe you.

 

[morning_star777]

It appears that according to Catholics belief Jesus is God and was God. He taught all the killing to Moses and Joshua. What you can say about that?

huh who ordered then to destroy the whole city of the disbelievers ? Was it Muhammed (pbuh) ?

Planten and Muslim woman,before bashing OT, think about your own scripture Koran, that is full of malignity to non Muslims.

But whatever planten,you have your own new version of Koran and that is totally different from Islamic Koran

 

[chrisse]

From planten and my reply:
** Wrong. All wrong and false propaganda (accusations). And there is no abrogation in the Quran. Please all note it.**
Well, as with Muslim Woman, I have to declare you a liar and a hypocrit. I have started posts on abrogation in the qur’an here. Please feel free to discuss with us. Note, I am not in the OP giving an opinion, just providing the authentic sources. In part 2 I will be describing the three different types of abrogation from Islamic scholars - again though, without my own opinion. The point being - discussion and education.

** It is the golden principle of Islam i.e. “There is no compulsion in any religion.” Christians will need a new God to bring up something as good as that is in the Quran.**
Abrogated, go to the start of my link above, however this abrogation is in Part 2 … soon to be released

Show me that from your bible, show me exactly what you have written or something near to that. Do not talk from your own head.
I would include the whole of the New Testament here, however it is much easier to direct you to read the New Testament itself.

Again, you are talking from your own opinion while there is no such thing in the bible where your god Jesus mat have told you those things. I see that you have no religion. You are becoming an advocate for the book which is quiet on the subject.
As you accuse me, so I accuse you. Boring, empty rhetoric which means nor proves anything.

I cannot understand what you are saying. Muslim Woman and Sis Amy have been very nice compared to your behavior and illogical assertions…
Muslim Woman and Sis Amy have consistently made unsubstantiated claims in an artificially “nice” manner. That’s a common tactic of liars, relying on people’s general lack of interest in investigating, and preference for being just told.

You can call me what you like. No harm. I would not believe you.
I agree, there is no harm in words. What a pity the non-muslims in the world today who criticise Islam are not being shown your sentiment from your fellow adherents of the islamic ideology. I am also not expecting nor asking you to believe me. However, where I have doubts, or someone tells me something that raises questions for me, I research the matter independently for myself. You however will not do that.

Here you are a hypocrit. You and your co-contributors on this forum make comments without proof and just expect us to accept them. Or maybe not, I mean, you accept what you are told by your imams without question, so possibly for you “without question” is the way to the Truth. If so, you are wrong.

 

[sedonaman]

It is not the requirement of the Shari`ah to have Muslim cooks and Muslim food servers.

Anyone who believes this will believe that Lucy won’t really pull the football away from Charlie Brown next time. Anyone who believes this should also remember that 40 years ago homosexuals told us all they wanted was to be left alone, the same thing Muslims are telling us now.

 

[chrisse]

Anyone who believes this will believe that Lucy won’t really pull the football away from Charlie Brown next time. Anyone who believes this should also remember that 40 years ago homosexuals told us all they wanted was to be left alone, the same thing Muslims are telling us now.

At least with Lucy, she’ll grow up and we can hope act with charity and love for her fellow man, NOT continue to make her demands be met.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Religious Tolerance in Islam

Michael - United States

I notice that your main headline is that a Russian city will not allow a mosque to be built. Does this surprise the editors at Islam Online?

Does Saudi Arabia allow churches to be built there?

Most Muslim states won’t even allow anyone to practice a different religion, let alone build a church or temple…

Ans is given by our revert bro Murad Hofmann ( ex Catholic)

…While Judaism rejects Jesus (s.) and Muhammad (s.), and while Christians reject Muhammad (s.), Islam is inclusivistic: It recognizes each and every prophet who lived before Muhammad (s.) and considers the Bible, including the New Testament, as a holy script. Only the Qur’an, in Surat al-Ma’ida, contains what can be termed a manifesto of religious pluralism:

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee.

To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues.

The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute
Surah 5 Verse 48

This fantastic code of inter-religious tolerance predates the US Constitution by 1050 lunar years; it is backed up by the famous verse Surat al-Baqara forbidding forced conversions:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things.

Surah 2 Verse 256

Indeed, the Qur’an leaves such matters to individual decision:

Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): …

Surah 18 Verse 29

Consequently, Muhammad (s.) was told that he is not everybody’s “guardian” :

"Now have come to you, from your Lord, proofs (to open your eyes): if any will see, it will be for (the good of) his own soul; if any will be blind, it will be to his own (harm): I am not (here) to watch over your doings."

Surah 6 Verse 104

It is Allah, and nobody else, who makes Muslims:

… God by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For God guides whom He will to a path that is straight.

Surah 2 Verse 213

Christian and Jewish communities flourished for 800 years in Muslim Andalusia (Spain). The same was true for the Ottoman empire. As a result, Christianity in Greece survived 500 years of Turkish rule. Even today, in Istanbul there is a Greek Orthodox cathedral, the seat of the Greek Orthodox patriarch, many Catholic, Armenian, and Protestant churches as well as dozens of Jewish synagogues. In Syria, the crosses on Christian church steeples are neon-lit at night, in Cairo, on the road to the airport from downtown, one sees more Coptic churches (for the 14 million Egyptian Copts) than mosques. In 'Amman (Jordan) the main mosque and the main cathedral face each other peacefully, in Morocco, Catholic bishops continue to exercise their office. In fact, to this day, Christians and Jews can be cabinet ministers in places like Egypt. 'Iraq, Morocco, and Turkey.

The only place where Muslims do not welcome churches is indeed Saudi Arabia which houses the two most holy places for Muslims, al-Madinah and Makkah. Is it not understandable, and legitimate, that Muslims claim one single place in this world where they can be among themselves (although only Makkah and al-Madinah are strictly off limits form non-Muslims)- just like men in a club off-limits for women and women in a club off-limits for men? That is why Muslims never complain about the fact that the Vatican State in and near-Rome would not accept a mosque or synagogue on its sacred territory either.

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015574&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE

 

[planten]

**Thanks JC, I agree that there was a man (arch enemy) who had run away and his wife pleaded on his behalf for his pardon. He was also the son of a very famous enemy of the prophet that was Abu Jehl.

The peophet pardoned him and his wife brouht him back. He became a great Warrior (if you do not take bad meanings)… The Muslim state of Madinah was under attack from all sides. Persons were required to defend the state and that person (The pardoned one) took part in some battlles and he eventually got killed in a battle.

But those battles were not for conversion. Show me any post (any of my posts) where I may have said that any Muslim took part in any battle to convert non-muslims.

Battle is a battle. People do get killed and some are made prisnors. Those who become captives were not killed. They were not threatened with any notice to die after they were caught.

No one took part in any war to convert the non-muslims. Now please tell where I did anything wrong? And show me my post too.**

 

[dzheremi]

Christian and Jewish communities flourished for 800 years in Muslim Andalusia (Spain).

The souls of the Martyrs of Cordoba (martyred between 850 and 859) would tell you otherwise! They were by no means an isolated incident, either, just the most famous. Andalucia was a great place to be if you knew your place, but these martyrs were executed for violations of Islamic law…so much for “no compulsion in religion”!

The same was true for the Ottoman empire.

Like fun it was! Tell that to the Armenians and Assyrians in 1915. Oh wait. You can’t. Anyone who brings them up (like famous Turkish writer Orhan Pamuk) is prosecuted for “insulting Turkishness”, a VERY strange idea in a so-called “secular” state that is supposed to allow freedom of religion and speech.

They didn’t allow it then, and they don’t allow it now. Stop lying.

As a result, Christianity in Greece survived 500 years of Turkish rule. Even today, in Istanbul there is a Greek Orthodox cathedral, the seat of the Greek Orthodox patriarch, many Catholic, Armenian, and Protestant churches as well as dozens of Jewish synagogues.

Oh, here we go…now once again we are reminded of how we owe our very lives and existence to the benevolence of Muslims. What a cruel joke. The Lebanese writer Dr. George Labaki writes of the Ottoman treatment of his people, the Maronites:

“The history of the Maronites in Lebanon during this period can be summarized in this way: administrative anarchy due to the exactions and intrigues created by the Turkish governors, persecutions, extortions, vexations and slaughter.” (“The Maronites in the United States”, Norte Dame University of Louaize Press, Lebanon, 1993)

He then goes on to describe how the Ottomans armed the Druze in order to enable them to massacre the Maronites in 1860:

“A total of 21,900 Christians were killed in less than two months: 1,800 at Sidon and Jezzine, 1,200 in nearby areas, 1,000 at Hasbaya, 800 at Rachaya, 700 at Zahleh, 2,600 at Deir el-Kamar, 11,000 at Damascus, 3,000 in Beirut and its suburbs. Moreover, 70,000 Christians had to flee their homes and hundreds of churches, monasteries, convents, and schools were reduced to rubble.” (Ibid, p. 13)

Real nice guys, those Ottoman rulers!

In Morocco, Catholic bishops continue to exercise their office.

Yes, but not freely. We should all remember the Martyrs of Atlas!

I

n fact, to this day, Christians and Jews can be cabinet ministers in places like Egypt. 'Iraq, Morocco, and Turkey.

In other societies, this would be considered normal and not some sort of special accomplishment.

Is it not understandable, and legitimate, that Muslims claim one single place in this world where they can be among themselves That is why Muslims never complain about the fact that the Vatican State in and near-Rome would not accept a mosque or synagogue on its sacred territory either.

The bolded portion is a lie! I have heard that exact argument from Muslims about why SA should not allow Churches! It is a very common argument, unfortunately. It does not even work as an argument, either, since Vatican leaders have allowed Muslims to pray within the Vatican itself! (source)

Could this ever happen in the holy mosques in Mecca or Medina? I think the answer is pretty clearly “no, never”.

Muslims have already claimed enough of the world for themselves, thank you very much…entire countries named “Turkey”, “Iraq”, “Egypt”, “Syria”, “Morocco”, “Libya”, “Sudan”, and many others…all built on the corpses of the mainly Christian civilizations that came before them.

 

[planten]

From planten (blue) and my reply (in red):
** Wrong. All wrong and false propaganda (accusations). And there is no abrogation in the Quran. Please all note it.**
Well, as with Muslim Woman, I have to declare you a liar and a hypocrit. I have started posts on abrogation in the qur’an here. Please feel free to discuss with us. Note, I am not in the OP giving an opinion, just providing the authentic sources. In part 2 I will be describing the three different types of abrogation from Islamic scholars - again though, without my own opinion. The point being - discussion and education.

Thanks for your post. There is no abrogation of any verse in Quran. We are dealing with those scholars who discussed it many hundred yead ago. They are not our big Lords like you have in church system.

** It is the golden principle of Islam i.e. “There is no compulsion in any religion.” Christians will need a new God to bring up something as good as that is in the Quran.**
Abrogated, go to the start of my link above, however this abrogation is in Part 2 … soon to be released
I do not go to any link. If you have something good from the link then post it here please. I believe you have nothing from your bible.

Show me that from your bible, show me exactly what you have written or something near to that. Do not talk from your own head.
I would include the whole of the New Testament here, however it is much easier to direct you to read the New Testament itself.

** Again, if youhad something then you could show it. But there is nothing with you. Why whole of new testament. Why not something from the four Gospels?**
** I know you would need to take support from the bible OT too which you people hve abrogated**.

Again, you are talking from your own opinion while there is no such thing in the bible where your god Jesus may have told you those things. I see that you have no religion. You are becoming an advocate for the book which is quiet on the subject.
As you accuse me, so I accuse you. Boring, empty rhetoric which means nor proves anything.

** But you have still not presented even a word from the bible. I do not accuse. Every one can see that you are just singning but not bringing.**

I cannot understand what you are saying. Muslim Woman and Sis Amy have been very nice compared to your behavior and illogical assertions…
Muslim Woman and Sis Amy have consistently made unsubstantiated claims in an artificially “nice” manner. That’s a common tactic of liars, relying on people’s general lack of interest in investigating, and preference for being just told.

You may be aware of all tactics of the Liars. We do not know any of those tactics.

You can call me what you like. No harm. I would not believe you.
I agree, there is no harm in words. What a pity the non-muslims in the world today who criticise Islam are not being shown your sentiment from your fellow adherents of the islamic ideology. I am also not expecting nor asking you to believe me. However, where I have doubts, or someone tells me something that raises questions for me, I research the matter independently for myself. You however will not do that.

Here you are a hypocrit. You and your co-contributors on this forum make comments without proof and just expect us to accept them. Or maybe not, I mean, you accept what you are told by your imams without question, so possibly for you “without question” is the way to the Truth. If so, you are wrong.

**Where-ever you have any doubts, you may ask. But not try to abuse please. Also, do not indulge in Hadith too much. Bring from the Quran which is our real book. The Hadith is man made like your bible. Welcome.

Muslim Woman and sis Amy have been inviting yougently for any discussion. But you were heedless. You avoided them and even accused them of lying.
**

 

[chrisse]

…

Don’t go to the link. We are discussing abrogation there on this board. Your choice.

I have noticed many muslims are running from the traditional scholarship which relies on the trilogy (qur’an, hadiths, sunnah). I don’t blame you, it’s absolutely disgusting. However, as I have stated before, quran-only muslims are not the majority of muslims, nor are the authentic Islamic scholars TODAY qur’an only. My argument is with them.

However, Muslim Woman said there was no honour killing in the qur’an. I corrected her with an authentic source. In another thread she repeated the lie, after being corrected, I again corrected her. On her third claim of there being no honour killing in the qur’an, she proved that she is only on this board for da’wa and taqiya; so while she may not be a liar in the islamic definition, she is a liar in ours.

From now on, you should preface your comments with “I am a qur’an only muslim” and be prepared to explain who and what you are and what authority you have in Islam. Many shia do this, ie they say they are shia and explain from that point of view.

 

[Charlotte2008]

**Here are two articles about abrogation in the quran

freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1251972/posts**

answering-islam.org/Authors/Farooq_Ibrahim/abrogation.htm

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Qur’anic Foundations of Muslim/Non-Muslim Relations *

By Dr. Jamal Badawi , Canada

It should be noted from the beginning that the very term Islam implies that peace is the basis and the norm of Muslim/non-Muslim relations

…The Qur’an describes the human as the trustee of Allah on earth. Allah created everything on earth and in the heavens for the benefit of the human race. Sanctity of human life is affirmed in the Qur’an Nor take life, which God has made sacred, except for just cause] (Al-Israa’ 17:33).

The Qur’an confirms God’s revelation to previous prophets that If anyone slays a human being, unless it be (punishment) for murder, or for spreading mischief on earth, it shall be as though he had slain all humankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all humankind] (Al-Ma’idah 5:32).

Beyond sanctity of life, in the Qur’an we read [Indeed, We (God) have conferred dignity on the children of Adam] (Al-Israa’ 17:70). It is noted that this verse is inclusive of all humans, irrespective of their religion or even their belief in God.

…Justice is a universal concept that should be observed without nepotism, even with the “enemy”:

[O you who believe! Stand out for justice, as witnesses to Allah, and even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor.] (An-Nisaa’ 4:134)

[O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety and fear Allah, for Allah is well acquainted with all that you do.] (Al-Ma’idah 5:8)

…Addressing the entire human race, the Qur’an states,

[O humankind! We (Allah) have created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and have made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Verily, the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous (or Allah-conscious) of you. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.] (Al-Hujurat 49:13)

It must be noted that this verse does not address Muslims exclusively, but begins with the inclusive address “O humankind,” an address that embraces all. It reminds humanity that they belong to one family with the same set of parents, albeit a diverse family.

…The Qur’an does not prescribe any punishment for rejecting the “invitation” to accept Islam.

[But if they turn away (from accepting Allah’s message, then know that) We have not sent you to be their keeper. Your duty is only to convey (the message).] (Ash-Shura 42:48)

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1158658454417&pagename=Zone-English-Living_Shariah%2FLSELayout

 

[Charlotte2008]

---

…

…The Qur’an does not prescribe any punishment for rejecting the “invitation” to accept Islam.

**No but it does say that if you do not you will burn in Hell.

We are told in the Bible:-

John14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”. Mohammed clearly did not want Muslims to know that so when he re-wrote the Bible to make the quran he threatened you with Hell for not believing his lies.

God also says this:

Colossians 2:1-6
I want you to know how much I am struggling for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not met me personally. My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this SO THAT NO-ONE MAY DECEIVE YOU BY FINE SOUNDING ARGUMENTS. For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how orderly you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.

FALSE PROPHETS:

Matthew 24:24-26
24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26"So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

Mark 13:21-23
21At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ[a]!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible. 23So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

Luke 21:8-9
8He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. 9When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”

WHISPERING ANGELS:

Galatians 1
1Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2and all the brothers with me, 
 To the churches in Galatia:
3Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
No Other Gospel
**6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

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Please read this: faithfreedom.org/2009/03/01/miracles-of-quran-exposed/
An extract: “About 90% of Muslims do not bother to read the Quran with its translation. But still, they believe that Quran is a “miracle” of Allah. If any Muslim ever bothers to study the Quran with its translation, he will find absurdities, hate verses, contradictions, Pseudo science, stolen stories of bible , stories of Mohammed’s wives , stories of his companions, abrogated verses, satanic verses, grammatical errors, dreams of heaven, torture of hell, Allah’s anthropomorphic face, non Arabic words, inequalities ,badly copied biblical verses, humor, vulgar language , Mohammed’s nervousness, his anger, his feelings, his hatred for Jews, his lust, his marriage with daughter in law, his atrocities, his lootings, his pedophilia, his hallucinations , his broken oaths, his broken treaties, misogynist verses, scriber’s wording and many other “miraculous” things. And any Muslim will never find any wording for peace except of some ayats of Mecca when Mohammed was a helpless and poor shepherd. And surely any Muslim reader can not get idea of missing verse of stoning, lashing and list of missing verses and the Quran which is hidden to Muslim “ummah”. Only Shia Imam has “hidden” knowledge about that part of the “miraculous “Quran. It is a common belief among the Muslim “ummah” that westerners use their Quran and get all the science. Perhaps it is not their fault. There are some western scientists who find “Science in Quran“. Though, they do not accept Islam, but get whatever they want by the petrodollars from the Rich Saudi princes.”

HOW can you not see that islam is a false religion? Please start questioning your faith properly!!! It is not a sin. We discuss Jesus all the time and yet Christianity is STILL and will always be the largest religion in the World. Perhaps mohammed told you not to so you cannot see the truth! Have you ever asked yourself that quesiton? What about these passages:-

**“O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.” (Surah 5:101-102).

"The prophet was asked about things which he did not like, and when the questioner insisted, the Prophet got angry. (vol. 1, no. 92) The Prophet got angry and his cheeks or his face became red. (vol. 1, no. 91) “Allah has hated you…[for] asking too many questions.” (vol. 2, no. 555; and vol. 3, no. 591, Bukhari’s Hadith commenting on Muhammad’s reaction to hostile questioners.)**

 

[planten]

Don’t go to the link. We are discussing abrogation there on this board. Your choice.

Your belief of abrogation may easily be discussed at the other thread soon. Be ready with some verse of the Quran which you feel is abrogated and indicate the abrogating verse too.

I have noticed many muslims are running from the traditional scholarship which relies on the trilogy (qur’an, hadiths, sunnah). I don’t blame you, it’s absolutely disgusting. However, as I have stated before, quran-only muslims are not the majority of muslims, nor are the authentic Islamic scholars TODAY qur’an only. My argument is with them.

Don’t worry. You will be fully disappointed. I am Triune. I believe in the Quran, the Sunnah and the Hadith. So what is your problem? I am not a Qurani (as you call those people).

However, Muslim Woman said there was no honour killing in the qur’an. I corrected her with an authentic source. In another thread she repeated the lie, after being corrected, I again corrected her. On her third claim of there being no honour killing in the qur’an, she proved that she is only on this board for da’wa and taqiya; so while she may not be a liar in the islamic definition, she is a liar in ours

.

That was between you and the Muslim Woman. I find her ( M W ) absolutely good truthful lady. And I don’t believe what you said because that does not seem to be true. M W can say that she is doing Dawah but she cannot say that she is using Taqiyya. You must have been dreaming. I never knew that.

From now on, you should preface your comments with “I am a qur’an only muslim” and be prepared to explain who and what you are and what authority you have in Islam. Many shia do this, ie they say they are shia and explain from that point of view.

Thanks for your advice. You know that name calling is bad. In English it is another way to abuse some one. I have told you that I am not what you are thinking. I will surely thrash your arguments to pieces about the abroagtion stunt. Just let me know where is your thread..

 

[sedonaman]

Sis Amy and Muslim Woman may be right to complain to you about your bad behavior. … That horrible example of " Love Thy Enemy ".

Muslim Woman, Sister Amy, and especially you, planten, are wasting your time. With your post that “fanatic hostile disbelievers in Islam deserve to be killed because [they are] already on war path against Islam,” have made intuitively obvious the to the most casual reader of your posts that no sane person with half his wits about him would entertain the notion of converting to the heresy of Mohammedanism, no matter how many of his passages you quote. What sane person would rather be a “slave of Allah” rather than a child of God and one of His heirs?

We do not want Islamic “peace” nor Islamic “justice”, and, therefore, we reject Mohammed and all his commands and claims to “prophethood” and/or “messengerhood”.

We also reject your false god, Allah, and all his sadism as having all the earmarks of Satan. If Mohammed is any kind of “prophet” and/or “messenger”, he is of the Devil, and the sooner the earth is rid of the shadow of Islam, the better for all humanity.

By the way, “That horrible example of ‘Love Thy Enemy’” is not mine. It came from that great Islamic prophet, Jesus, one who is claimed to be “loved” by all the Muslims on this forum.

P. S. For everyone else: I have detected a suspicious change in planten’s style of writing between the one quoted above and his most current. Has anyone else noted something similar?

 

[chrisse]

Your belief of abrogation may easily be discussed at the other thread soon. Be ready with some verse of the Quran which you feel is abrogated and indicate the abrogating verse too.

Don’t worry. You will be fully disappointed. I am Triune. I believe in the Quran, the Sunnah and the Hadith. So what is your problem? I am not a Qurani (as you call those people).

That was between you and the Muslim Woman. I find her ( M W ) absolutely good truthful lady. And I don’t believe what you said because that does not seem to be true. M W can say that she is doing Dawah but she cannot say that she is using Taqiyya. You must have been dreaming. I never knew that.

Thanks for your advice. You know that name calling is bad. In English it is another way to abuse some one. I have told you that I am not what you are thinking. I will surely thrash your arguments to pieces about the abroagtion stunt. Just let me know where is your thread..

Planten, you just like to argue for argument’s sake.

Oh, now I’m guessing you’re Shia. I have to guess as you won’t say. But that last statement indicates strongly you are a Shia.

Now, as I understand the Shia, the qur’an is corrupted, but it’s all you’ve got so you accept it, you don’t accept all the hadiths, for example Bukhari is not authentic. Ali should have been given the revelation, not Mohammed - that was a mistake by Jibril.

Abrogation - the qur’an itself says so, quite a few times. Oh, as a Shia, the qur’an is corrupted.

Planten, I think you just argue for argument’s sake. I have been casually looking at the interaction between Jharek and yourself; now this reply.