S
sedonaman
Guest
Sounds like Mohammed would be like the proverbial Puritan minister who was constantly bothered by the thought that somewhere, someone was having a good time.
- Status
H
Hypatia
Guest
Where do you get this stuff? I suppose in some sense it is true that everything must be about God, but this is because God embraces the totality of existence. The Islamic tradition is full of poets (Hafez, Saadi, Melvana/Rumi, Iqbal), and there are even stories about Mohammad (pbuh) going to hear music.
And no free will?? I guess all those debates between the Ash’ari and the Mutazili over the nature of human freedom were over…something else? Meanwhile, Mulla Sadra was doing existentialism more than 200yrs before Sartre was born.
And, if having a doctrine of God that includes providence/predestination eliminates freedom, then Christians will have to start by cleaning their own house (starting with Augustine, Thomas Aquinas!!..after which, I am not sure what is left of Western Christianity)…but they will be eliminating God when they do so.
But maybe that is what you are looking for? A sphere in which God is not present? There is no such thing.
J
Jay53
Guest
Is this true? And what would be the reasoning for this?
C
Charlotte2008
Guest
Ask any muslim. They will tell you that they cannot listen to music because it turns them away from allah (in case you get possessed or something) same with drinking alcohol and you should only be reading the quran. I dated a muslim and know what goes on with them.
Do you know that muslims are not allowed to say “Bless You” when you sneeze. They are not allowed to wish you a Happy Christmas either only Seasons Greetings at the most. Read some of these: http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwaList.php?fid=21 why not live your own life!
C
Charlotte2008
Guest
I have no idea!Is this true? And what would be the reasoning for this?
T
The_Fool
Guest
I don’t see what’s wrong with someone who restricts reading material to Godly things, or their equivalent of it if you will. Isn’t that what nuns do? Sure, there is going to be an instruction manual or two about how to use or fix this or that, but I doubt they would have much else in their library unless its for work. If someone has visited a convent, you can correct me on this.
Next, I find it hard to believe that music is not allowed when Sufis use music, and a number of them are Muslim. Maybe a portion of Muslims believe music is not allowed, but it’s hard from what I’ve seen of how highly some regard their history, which includes their musical tradition. As for the stomach thing, or free will, I haven’t looked at Islam enough to properly judge.
J
jakasaki
Guest
Ahmad and Abu Dawood (5040) that Takhfah ibn Qays al-Ghifaari said:
When I was lying on my stomach in the mosque just before dawn, a man nudged me with his foot and said: “This manner of lying is hated by Allaah.” I looked and saw that it was the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
Ibn Majaah (3724) narrated from Ibn Takhfah al-Ghifaari that Abu Dharr said:
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by me and I was lying on my stomach. He kicked me with his foot and said: “O Junaydib! This is how the people of Hell lie.”
C
Charlotte2008
Guest
Here is an official fatwa on how to sleep askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=f811f70c8a66a8a04d2acaf5df6ed345
T
The_Fool
Guest
Thank you for your posts, jakasaki and Charlotte2008.
jakasaki, as informative as what you posted was, until I know why Muslims supposedly cannot sleep on their stomachs, I cannot comment. For instance, I know a number of good Christians who are told not to act like animals, and perhaps sleeping on one’s stomach is considered animal like, or even snake like. It would also help if it was simply a matter of don’t sleep on your stomach because we say so.
Charlotte2008, the link you provided mentions the stomach a few times, but never flat out says one cannot sleep on one’s stomach. The questioner claims to have heard about the stomach thing, but it is never confirmed. Instead the issue is evaded as the answer claims it is advisable to sleep on one’s right side. Unfortunately, I still do not have enough to comment.
jakasaki, as informative as what you posted was, until I know why Muslims supposedly cannot sleep on their stomachs, I cannot comment. For instance, I know a number of good Christians who are told not to act like animals, and perhaps sleeping on one’s stomach is considered animal like, or even snake like. It would also help if it was simply a matter of don’t sleep on your stomach because we say so.
Charlotte2008, the link you provided mentions the stomach a few times, but never flat out says one cannot sleep on one’s stomach. The questioner claims to have heard about the stomach thing, but it is never confirmed. Instead the issue is evaded as the answer claims it is advisable to sleep on one’s right side. Unfortunately, I still do not have enough to comment.
J
jakasaki
Guest
Here’s the Hadith:
Ya’eesh ibn Tihfah al-Ghifaari reported that his father said:
“I stayed as a guest with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with those of the poor whom he hosted.
The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came out in the night to check up on his guests, and saw me lying on my stomach. He prodded me with his foot and said, ‘Do not lie in this manner, for it is a way of lying that Allaah hates.’”
According to another report, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prodded him with his foot and woke him up, and said, “Do not lie like this, for this is how the people of Hell lie.”
(Reported by Ahmad, al-Fath al-Rabbaani, 14/244-245; by al-Tirmidhi, no. 2798, Shaakir edn.; and by Abu Dawood, al-Sunan, Kitaab al-Adab, no. 5040, al-Da’aas edn. Also reported in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2270-2271).
All I’m doing is pointing out the hadiths for your review.
T
The_Fool
Guest
I know, and I appreciate it, but it doesn’t really say anything to me besides he said such and such. If those two are the only things that dictate how a Muslim should sleep or lie, then it would be as simple as don’t do it because he said so. If that’s all there is then it winds down to the validity of his office. Of course, not being Muslim, I think it’s a silly practice and his words don’t carry the weight others might they do. Yet because it is simply silly, it should not influence whether or not I view Muslims negatively. One might argue it’s a harmless eccentricity. Let’s not forget that in the Old Testament, the Lord seemed to pass down a lot of laws that seem silly or worse to us now, like marrying your dead brother’s wife or some such.
Just to give this more weight, would any Muslim forum members please confirm the above. It’s not that I doubt the integrity of jakasaki or Charlotte2008, it’s just an irritating habit I picked up from school.
Just to give this more weight, would any Muslim forum members please confirm the above. It’s not that I doubt the integrity of jakasaki or Charlotte2008, it’s just an irritating habit I picked up from school.
J
jakasaki
Guest
You may do as you wish my dear, what I post is/are NOT my books, but islamic.I know, and I appreciate it, but it doesn’t really say anything to me besides he said such and such. If those two are the only things that dictate how a Muslim should sleep or lie, then it would be as simple as don’t do it because he said so. If that’s all there is then it winds down to the validity of his office. Of course, not being Muslim, I think it’s a silly practice and his words don’t carry the weight others might they do. Yet because it is simply silly, it should not influence whether or not I view Muslims negatively. One might argue it’s a harmless eccentricity. Let’s not forget that in the Old Testament, the Lord seemed to pass down a lot of laws that seem silly or worse to us now, like marrying your dead brother’s wife or some such.
Just to give this more weight, would any Muslim forum members please confirm the above. It’s not that I doubt the integrity of jakasaki or Charlotte2008, it’s just an irritating habit I picked up from school.
Some muslims obey and follow the hadiths, while other muslims do not.
No my decision to judge.
Nor do I care which side people sleep on, their backs, their bellies or their sides.
D
dzheremi
Guest
Maybe it is silly, or you and I can say that it is silly because it seems that way to us, but to a Muslim it probably matters quite a bit that their prophet told this man that the way he was lying is the way that people in hell lay, or that this way of lying is hated by Allah. Just trying to put myself in their shoes, I would not brush off such admonition so quickly. I guess that’s a real problem I have with Islam: Whereas I do some things that may seem senseless to others out of a sense of Catholic obligation and desire to practice as fully as I can within the Latin rite (genuflecting to the Blessed Sacrament at Mass, for instance), I have never gotten the sense, much less been told explicitly by an authority, that God hates those who do not genuflect, or that people who are in hell are those who do not genuflect. One wonders just what conception of God is exalted in Islam that you might risk going to hell if you find yourself predisposed to sleep on your stomach. Or does the Islamic Allah guarantee His believers a free Tempurpedic mattress upon their conversion, so that they need never toss and turn or find one position any less comfortable than the one which He hates?
T
The_Fool
Guest
Well, when you put it that way, it is does not seem quite as silly if the consequences are so grave, and I do tend to make the oddest assumptions about people before meeting them. However, in reference to the stomach thing, I’ve never known Muslims who take it to that extent. Maybe I’m sheltered.
As for the concept thing, anyone who believes that I generally lump in with the same people who say God hates homosexuals. If you look at the text I was provided with, Allah hates the act, not the person performing the act. At least that was my interpretation of it.
You did bring up an interesting point though. The Catholic Church has said flat out that homosexual intercourse is a sin, so if there are people predisposed to it, which I don’t think there actually are, then they can’t, otherwise they’re sinning. One might counter that in Catholic tradition the sin can be forgiven, and I don’t really know how Muslims regard forgiveness of sin, but would it not be similar? Thanks for the thought, hopefully I didn’t misconstrue anything.
As for being told by an authority that God hates such and such, I don’t get told explicitly, but I have been told that anyone who disobeys her parents to enter a cloistered convent is going to hell. Does that count?
As for the concept thing, anyone who believes that I generally lump in with the same people who say God hates homosexuals. If you look at the text I was provided with, Allah hates the act, not the person performing the act. At least that was my interpretation of it.You did bring up an interesting point though. The Catholic Church has said flat out that homosexual intercourse is a sin, so if there are people predisposed to it, which I don’t think there actually are, then they can’t, otherwise they’re sinning. One might counter that in Catholic tradition the sin can be forgiven, and I don’t really know how Muslims regard forgiveness of sin, but would it not be similar? Thanks for the thought, hopefully I didn’t misconstrue anything.
As for being told by an authority that God hates such and such, I don’t get told explicitly, but I have been told that anyone who disobeys her parents to enter a cloistered convent is going to hell. Does that count?
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Some do’s & dont’s are related on health/medical ground in Islam . Such as drinking alcohol , eating pork etc. Something are not mentioned in Quran but described in Hadith like don’t eat or drink while standing , don’t eat full stomach , eat with your right hand etc etc.
Muslims are supposed to obey the Messenger of God . So , believers must not question why God or messenger of God told us to do or avoid something . We must believe that there are good for us by obeying the commands. So , most probably , it’s not a good habit to lie on stomach ; may by we won’t have good sleep or it’s not good for health. I have to browse to find a good answer . If can find , InshaAllah post that soon .
related link:
Q. Adam
What does Islam say on sleeping on one’s belly especially as this may stir sexual desire?
Prof.
A Muslim should not sleep on his belly especially as this may strengthen his sexual urge. In addition, it is an unhealthy manner of sleeping.
… one day the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) passed by a man sleeping on his belly. He tapped the man with his foot saying: “Such manner of sleeping is loathed by Allah” .
Here, it is also beneficial to mention some Islamic manners of sleeping:
1-Try to sleep in the state of purity.
2-Dust your bed three times before you go to sleep.
3-Lie down on your right side, put your right hand under your right cheek and recite: “ O Allah! in Thy Name I live and die.”
4-Before you sleep recite Ayat al-Kursi and the two last verses of the same Surah.
5-Seek Allah’s forgiveness and His guidance.
6-Before you sleep recite once Surat Al-Mulk.
7-When you wake up recite: “Praise be to Allah Who brought to us life again after He has caused us to die and unto Him shall be the Resurrection.
islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545450
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
woow , a very good habit --I must say… how a Muslim should sleep or lie… it’s just an irritating habit I picked up from school.
Some do’s & dont’s are related on health/medical ground in Islam . Such as drinking alcohol , eating pork etc. Something are not mentioned in Quran but described in Hadith like don’t eat or drink while standing , don’t eat full stomach , eat with your right hand etc etc.
Muslims are supposed to obey the Messenger of God . So , believers must not question why God or messenger of God told us to do or avoid something . We must believe that there are good for us by obeying the commands. So , most probably , it’s not a good habit to lie on stomach ; may by we won’t have good sleep or it’s not good for health. I have to browse to find a good answer . If can find , InshaAllah post that soon .
related link:
Q. Adam
What does Islam say on sleeping on one’s belly especially as this may stir sexual desire?
Prof.
Ali As-Sawwa, professor of Shariah at the University of Jordan:A Muslim should not sleep on his belly especially as this may strengthen his sexual urge. In addition, it is an unhealthy manner of sleeping.
… one day the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) passed by a man sleeping on his belly. He tapped the man with his foot saying: “Such manner of sleeping is loathed by Allah” .
Here, it is also beneficial to mention some Islamic manners of sleeping:
1-Try to sleep in the state of purity.
2-Dust your bed three times before you go to sleep.
3-Lie down on your right side, put your right hand under your right cheek and recite: “ O Allah! in Thy Name I live and die.”
4-Before you sleep recite Ayat al-Kursi and the two last verses of the same Surah.
5-Seek Allah’s forgiveness and His guidance.
6-Before you sleep recite once Surat Al-Mulk.
7-When you wake up recite: “Praise be to Allah Who brought to us life again after He has caused us to die and unto Him shall be the Resurrection.
islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545450
H
Hypatia
Guest
What am I? Chopped Liver??
“They” are a pretty limited segment of Islam. As already mentioned, there is the very famous story of the Prophet (pbuh) himself taking Aisha to hear music. And I can assure you that Elissa and Nancy Agram, Amr Diab are not as popular as they are without Muslims listening to music…whole forms of folk music exist within Muslim cultures, the most well known of which is probably Rai. I assure you Muslims listen to music (I am doing so right now in fact). Moreover, as someone has already mentioned, music itself is a major part of the way in which many Sufi groups approach Allah (swt).
As for only reading the Qur’an on explicitly religious materials…I have already listed off a string of Islamic poets, and while much of what they write is religious, it is certainly not the case that all of it is. Islam has an absolutely beautiful literary tradition (supposedly Rumi is the most popular selling poet, for instance, in America).
Finally, the reason we do not drink alcohol (or eat pork) is taqwa – plain and simple. It is a reminder to us of the difference between Creator and creature so that we might be ever more conscious of God.
I of course admit that there are Muslims who hold the positions you hold, but they are not anything like the majority. Even in Saudi, where the ban on music might be more widely held, cds are sold in the souhks, and music plays freely in homes.
And the reason the Taliban is having to shut down music stores and close theatres in the NWFP of Pakistan…is because most Muslims listen to music and go to movies. The Taliban are not the totality of Islam.
It would be a narrow, twisted and historically disconnected picture of Christianity that one would get from looking at the American Puritans, or Scottish Presbyterians, or Cromwell, or early radical Reformation figures like Thomas Muntzer (or even someone more modern like the American evangelical Bob Jones) and decided THAT was Christianity. That is something you should bear in mind when talking about Islam.
D
dzheremi
Guest
Hi. I know this wasn’t addressed to me, but if you wouldn’t mind, I’d like to comment on it briefly, because I have asked this very same question of Sister Amy, another Muslim who posts here, and she has said the exact opposite of what you have said: that those who declare that music is halal are the minority, and in the wrong at that. So who is right? I don’t think either of you are presenting false information knowingly, but this interesting given that my conversation with her happened because she rejected my idea that the Muslim world is divided on the issue of the permissability of music! You can see now, perhaps, why non-Muslims like me are confused about this issue? I have asked some Muslim friends about this too and gotten three answers: 1) it is forbidden; 2) it is not forbidden; 3) only music with instruments other than drum is forbidden. How a yes or no question can illicit yes, no, and maybe is beyond me…
I do not understand. Aren’t we constantly reminded of the difference between us and God whenever we pray, or go to religious services, or thank God for our food, or anything like that, whether we are Muslim or not? How is the singling out of one animal supposed to remind us of that more than any of the above activities which are specifically designed to turn our attention towards God? (Eating pork, on the other hand, could happen just to keep from starving in those situations where only pork is available. Believe me, it’s definitely never my first choice, and I am “allowed” to eat it…!)
While Saudis do not represent all of Islam, the Saudis I know have mostly said that music is forbidden (even the ones who admit to listening to it sometimes themselves). These guys are not radicals in any outward way. Just students. Again, who is right?
T
The_Fool
Guest
Although not directed at me, of course not! You’re a beloved child of God created in his image.What am I? Chopped Liver??
And some listen to rap too. I know there are Iranian rap musicians, and some of their work is interesting; although I don’t like rap myself. They tend to have messages expressing frustration regarding the oppressiveness or hypocrisy seen in the authority/government/powers that be.
Rumi was recommended to me, but none of his work comes to mind. Hafez sticks out the most for me, simply because he cracks me up.
I don’t think many can argue that he didn’t lament prohibition when it came to Shiraz.
H
Hypatia
Guest
You ask Thomas, Luther and Calvin what is happening in the Lord’s Supper and what happens? You get three different answers. In some ways this is what I was trying to point out in the last paragraph of the post of mine you quoted. Islam is a very rich and diverse tradition. You ask me and you ask another Sister and you get different answers (without suggesting that I am on the level of an Aquinas, etc…or the Muslim equivalents…Ghazali, Suhrawardi, etc.). You ask me who is right…and, well, who do you think I am going to say? And I mean that with no disrespect to the other sister. That is just the reality.
In practice and throughout the tradition within Islam music has remained a vibrant part of Muslims lives, and it is specifically a part of many a Sufi tariqah (school, order, path). This can be seen both in the rich folk musical (and dance) traditions found in southeast Asia, Persia, North Africa, etc., and the popularity of contemporary music, much of which is in Arabic or Urdu, etc. throughout the Muslim world.
Many of those who believe that music is haram also think the various Sufis (and often the Shi’a, etc.) are outside Islam. If that is their position they pretty much have to gut massive parts of the Islamic tradition, but I do not consider that a justifiable or fruitful path.
I also presume that those who argue that music is haram must also argue that the story about the Prophet (pbuh) and Aisha is not legitimate.
Of course, you ought always to be conscious of God, but you still do certain things, certain kinds of ritual action, to teach, reinforce and practice that. Certain practices that we engage in repeatedly, certain acts by which we explicitly enact taqwa, so that it becomes an attitude that we possess out of habit. The Bible, e.g., talks about the fact that you should pray without ceasing, but most groups still have certain ritual prayers. Along similar lines, we ought always to be God-conscious, but there are certain things we do to ritually express, repeat, remind and reinforce what ought always to be the case: conscious that we are beings and God is Being.
You and others seem to expect that Muslims are all going to say one thing on each topic. This no more likely to be the case than it is with Christians. I have answered this question, and I hope it helps.
wa Allahu alam.
D
dzheremi
Guest
Of course. Perhaps I could have phrased my post differently. I apologize. I don’t presume that such questions are actually answerable to anyone’s satisfaction. It was meant to be a rhetorical question.
Indeed. I enjoy quite a library of Muslim music from the Arab world and beyond. It’s some of the best music anywhere, period.
Sure enough, I’m just wondering how not eating a pig specifically does that. God is still greater than you can imagine no matter what you eat, right?
I’m sorry that I’ve given you that impression. I did not do enough to make clear that I did not expect an “authoritative” answer from you. It was a rhetorical question.
Thanks for your answer.
- Status