D
dolphinlove
Guest
No muslims around before your book was revealed? then how come muslims claim Moses, Abraham, Jesus etc were all muslims?
Im glad to hear the truth now, there were NO muslims before muhammad made up his religion.
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Im glad to hear the truth now, there were NO muslims before muhammad made up his religion.
D
dolphinlove
Guest
doh, you got in before me 
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
Salaam/peace
Muslims are those who surrendered themselves to God —not to any human or angel.
It does not matter in which family / nation a person is/ was born .
verses we need specially for hereafter :
But when Isa( Jesus) perceived unbelief on their part,
he said Who will be my helpers in Allah’s way?
The disciples said:
We are helpers (in the way) of Allah:
We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones.
Chapter #3, Verse #52
And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Yaqoob (Jacob), (saying),
“O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam (as Muslims - Islamic Monotheism).”
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #132)
Or say you that Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Yaqoob (Jacob) and Al-Asbat (the twelve sons of Yaqoob (Jacob)) were Jews or Christians?
Say, "Do you know better or does Allah (knows better that they all were Muslims)?
And who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony (i.e. to believe in Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him when he comes, written in their Books. (See Verse 7:157))
he has from Allah?
And Allah is not unaware of what you do."
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #140)
Muslims are those who surrendered themselves to God —not to any human or angel.
It does not matter in which family / nation a person is/ was born .
verses we need specially for hereafter :
But when Isa( Jesus) perceived unbelief on their part,
he said Who will be my helpers in Allah’s way?
The disciples said:
We are helpers (in the way) of Allah:
We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones.
Chapter #3, Verse #52
And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Yaqoob (Jacob), (saying),
“O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam (as Muslims - Islamic Monotheism).”
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #132)
Or say you that Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Yaqoob (Jacob) and Al-Asbat (the twelve sons of Yaqoob (Jacob)) were Jews or Christians?
Say, "Do you know better or does Allah (knows better that they all were Muslims)?
And who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony (i.e. to believe in Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him when he comes, written in their Books. (See Verse 7:157))
he has from Allah?
And Allah is not unaware of what you do."
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #140)
C
Chancellor
Guest
MuslimWoman;
Please accept my prayers and sorrow for you. I know that you are forced to say what you say, and that if you deviate you will be declared apostate and killed. I can only imagine what it must be like to have only one half the value of a man and virtually no rights.
But just to make this easier on yourself and everyone else, it might be good to try to answer the questions. You offered to answer questions about Islam but after almost 500 posts you have not done so.
Most of us know that Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob and others never said anything about Islam or Allah because neither existed at that time.
At the time of Jesus, Allah was still the moon god of southern Arabia. This is open historical knowledge and I know that you are not allowed access to anything that might show you a deeper truth than you have been exposed to.
So I think it might be good for you to ask questions about Islam to the other members of this thread. Many of us know more about history and theology than you are allowed to have. Of course we don’t want to put your life at risk.
Pray about it. If your religion is of any value, it will survive the scrutiny.
May the true God of all bless you.
Please accept my prayers and sorrow for you. I know that you are forced to say what you say, and that if you deviate you will be declared apostate and killed. I can only imagine what it must be like to have only one half the value of a man and virtually no rights.
But just to make this easier on yourself and everyone else, it might be good to try to answer the questions. You offered to answer questions about Islam but after almost 500 posts you have not done so.
Most of us know that Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob and others never said anything about Islam or Allah because neither existed at that time.
At the time of Jesus, Allah was still the moon god of southern Arabia. This is open historical knowledge and I know that you are not allowed access to anything that might show you a deeper truth than you have been exposed to.
So I think it might be good for you to ask questions about Islam to the other members of this thread. Many of us know more about history and theology than you are allowed to have. Of course we don’t want to put your life at risk.
Pray about it. If your religion is of any value, it will survive the scrutiny.
May the true God of all bless you.
A
Americanrevert
Guest
**Hello,
ok, the point is, that all prophets and messengers before Mohammad (sws)taught one God, one religion. They all submitted to the only ONE worthy of worship. Allah.
The people in the past, ALWAYS went astray as to the reason why more messengers and prophets were sent. This *DOES NOT MEAN *that what they believed in before they can’t own up to. They can by all means disclaim and be in the state of apostasy, but nonetheless, they were all taught the same message by chosen messengers from God.
All throughout history, people has messed up, misled, misinterpreted and thus, needed more guidance. Allah, the Creator of the Universe, of you and me, created humankind knowing they are sinful and with the power to worship Him and to ask forgiveness. This is known. He knows His creation more than we know ourselves. God did not create man in sin. This is ludicrous…why you ask? Because man cannot be judged if they are innocent, for other’s mistakes and wrongdoings. Simple. Even the judges here on earth know that to be true…go sit in a courtroom.
So, during the time of ignorance, before the last message of God was produced to the people of ignorance, there were people believing in one god, …even jews knew of a messenger to come, it was foretold in their books.
Islam means submission to the only one worthy of worship. It doesn’t just mean the title of a religion. This is where people fail to understand.
american revert
**
Angelos, are you aware of your own religion?
ok, the point is, that all prophets and messengers before Mohammad (sws)taught one God, one religion. They all submitted to the only ONE worthy of worship. Allah.
The people in the past, ALWAYS went astray as to the reason why more messengers and prophets were sent. This *DOES NOT MEAN *that what they believed in before they can’t own up to. They can by all means disclaim and be in the state of apostasy, but nonetheless, they were all taught the same message by chosen messengers from God.
All throughout history, people has messed up, misled, misinterpreted and thus, needed more guidance. Allah, the Creator of the Universe, of you and me, created humankind knowing they are sinful and with the power to worship Him and to ask forgiveness. This is known. He knows His creation more than we know ourselves. God did not create man in sin. This is ludicrous…why you ask? Because man cannot be judged if they are innocent, for other’s mistakes and wrongdoings. Simple. Even the judges here on earth know that to be true…go sit in a courtroom.
So, during the time of ignorance, before the last message of God was produced to the people of ignorance, there were people believing in one god, …even jews knew of a messenger to come, it was foretold in their books.
Islam means submission to the only one worthy of worship. It doesn’t just mean the title of a religion. This is where people fail to understand.
american revert
**
A
Angelos
Guest
Of course, I am. If you think otherwise, please prove your point by citing reference from the New Testament.**Hello,
Angelos, are you aware of your own religion?
This is a pointless point actually. Your faith depicts God as a weak deity that is always doomed to failure with regard to the establishment of His so-called one religion on earth. Islam teaches that it is impossible for God to have ALL His revelations in the same authentic form at the same time. Thus, there is no continuity in God’s message to mankind since it is always disrupted and deviated.
If the supposition that people always went astray became an inevitable habit and a systematic reality, this supposition can be applied to Mohammad’s teaching too. When will your new prophet appear to correct the apostasy of Mohammad’s followers???
God knows His creation better and He knows that people need guidance. Additionally, God knows that His message and truth must be preserved from evil people who try to replace truth with falsehood and mislead His creatures.
This does not mean that there were Muslims prior to Mohammad’s ideology named Islam. History testifies to the fact that one of the Pharaohs wanted his folk to follow monotheism.
Since I do not believe that the Koran is the final Word of God, the other assertions derived from this assumption make no sense to me.
It is true that Jews awaited a prophet like Moses long before Islam and it is also true that the prophet promised to them in their Scripture would be Jewish and a descendant of Isaac. Mohammad was pagan and supposedly a descendant of Ishmael. Thus, he cannot be that prophet.
I, however, define Islam as submission to Mohammad’s man-made ideology.
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planten
Guest
Yes, True. But there were no prophets and no faithful people when the Quran was revealed. They were pagans of Arabia. And in the rest of the world too was great turmoil and misgidance. There was no true knowledge of God in India or Iran or Arabia or with the Roman Empire. Would you please agree.
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planten
Guest
**Dear, please be reasonable. “No Muslims around” means no Muslims living and to be seen at that time. Abraham and Moses and Jesus had lived long time before Muhammad. There is no question, no doubt about their fidelity, about their faith. They were true Muslism and so were their followers. But only upto a certain time.Later the followers forget the real good original message and became misled.
When Quran was revealed, there were no faithful believers any where. The Quran describes that. It says " There is too much trouble (misgidance, facade) in the land and in the sea." It meant that those who had the guidance given to them through the revelation by prophets (such as Jews and christians) were lost in the wilderness and those who did not have any guidance were also in very bad shape.
I hope you understand now…**
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dolphinlove
Guest
No, I dont agree with you.
When muhammad was hiding in his little cave making up his new religion, or was he getting it from a ‘source’, who really knows, anyway thats not the point.
Christianity was spreading through Europe, Asia, Africa and the middle east when muhammad was making up his religion.
Oh and Christianity was spread peacefully, can you say the same about islam?
The world was not going through misguidance, the only time it was misguided was when muhammad chose to spread his lies.
D
dolphinlove
Guest
Im always reasonable
"
So are you saying, and quote me if im wrong…
That Muslims did exists, then they didnt, because they ‘forgot’ their true message?
Why was there no mention of ‘Muslim’ or ‘Islam’ in the dead sea scrolls or in the bible?
Abraham, Moses and Jesus were Jews.
Yeah, i understand that Jesus warned us about false prophets, and did warn us that there would be a false prophet that would receive word just like muhammad did. By a ‘so called’ angel appearing to him.
There was no such thing as a Muslim, or Islam until old mo made it up.
Also, if you have such great faith in your religion, answer the question about apostasy… PLEASE.
P
planten
Guest
** D i L, Again you are trying hard to wiggle out of your difficulty by diverting the topic. Jesus told you about being careful about the false prophets. That was an advice for immediate time after sudden disappearance of Jesus from the scene. But you forgot all advive of Jesus. The fals eprophet came and spoiled all your teachings but you did not know about it. You still love and rever that false prophet who worked in the name of Jesus.Im always reasonable
Yeah, i understand that Jesus warned us about false prophets, and did warn us that there would be a false prophet that would receive word just like muhammad did. By a ‘so called’ angel appearing to him.
There was no such thing as a Muslim, or Islam until old mo made it up.
Also, if you have such great faith in your religion, answer the question about apostasy… PLEASE.
Jesus had warned you that many will come in his name. So you should look for any false prophets in the name of Jesus. Muhamamd did not come in the name of Jesus. He came in the name of Allah, the Beneficient, The Merciful.
You have no real ground to deny Muhammad except your evil wishful thinking (plans).**
D
dolphinlove
Guest
Ok, thats it, you are the KING of wriggling out of things.
What is the penalty for apostasy in islam?
Your false prophet has filled your brain with so much rubbish, you dont know what is real and false anymore.
Jesus is the Son of God, and he gave us the NT, the REAL scripture from God, Muhammad is the false prophet Jesus warned us about!
Do you have a hard time understanding this?
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Angelos
Guest
Planten, I cannot believe that you are not sick of your stale and already rebutted arguments! Try something new please.
C
cathopologist
Guest
Bump. I would like to see that too.
C
cathopologist
Guest
I have a question, actually two: Anybody can be representatives of Islam - even Salman Rushdie, since Islam has no teaching and binding authority on its adherents. The only authority i see in Islam is that of Sha’ria and fatwas. Death fatwas are common but no fatwa on condemning terrorism or bounty on capturing terrorists. Why is that so?
Also, the Qur’an claims it is the last revelation from God. Why didn’t the Qur’an appear at the time of Musa? What took Allah so long to “reveal” the Qur’an? What was Allah, according to the Qur’an doing then? Creating Mohammad?
Also, the Qur’an claims it is the last revelation from God. Why didn’t the Qur’an appear at the time of Musa? What took Allah so long to “reveal” the Qur’an? What was Allah, according to the Qur’an doing then? Creating Mohammad?
S
Sam_777
Guest
Hi cathopologist,
- Highest Islamic authority within the same Islamic country:
“Imam” “ولى الامر” per (Quran 4:59), in Saudi Arabia sometimes if a person gets a death verdict by our Islamic court, the King (or the highest person in the Islamic country) who represent the “Imam” can override and cancel that verdict, although that doesn’t happen always but only in rare cases. - Highest Islamic authority between Islamic countries:
In early Islamic days, they used to have “Islamic Caliphate” where the Imam would resident in one country and control all other countries, but that ended with the end of the Ottoman Caliphate.
Nowadays we don’t have a single authority between countries, that is why Muslim extremists want it back to control all Muslims worldwide.
The Most High God sent prophets only through the Jewish race.
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
Salaam/peace
Prophet Musa (p) got Taurat .
ans is there in your question . Last revelation came to the last Prophet .
Prophet Musa (p) got Taurat .
M
Muslim_Woman
Guest
Salaam/peace
Jews have no monopoly over the mercy of God Almighty .
S
Sam_777
Guest
Peace to you too,(Genesis 17:17-22):
“Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, “Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?” And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!”
Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.” When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him.”
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cathopologist
Guest
Hi Sam_777, thanks for the replies. However, Muslims have also told me that Islam has no clergy. There was the Caliphate, but even that fell because of corruption. Today, many Sunni’s do not recognize the teaching authority of the Grand Mufti, hence the question. Islam is as chaotic as then.
There have been more death fatwas issued to kafirs than fatwas demanding the capture of known Muslim terrorists. Isn’t that peculiar?
There have been more death fatwas issued to kafirs than fatwas demanding the capture of known Muslim terrorists. Isn’t that peculiar?
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