Assemblies of God?

[Dcngman]

Also, most Pentecostals do not hold to as static of a conception of what it meens to be a Biblical Christian and many do not share views with funfementalists on key issues such as inerrancy or what is meant by inerrancy. Both the modern Evangelical movement and the Charismatic movement among mainline protestants, Catholics and Orthodox both succeded the classical Pentecostal movements of the early 20th century and is evidence, I believe, that the Spirit is at work throughout the whole church and is not bound by denominations or institutions. Nevertheless, th AG decided to join with Evangelicals at the formation of the NAE. Also, the emphasis on tounges among classical Pentecostals has unique yet solid theological basis.

Lastly, I don’t think it is fare of you to say that you are not missing out on anything as if God was not at work among these churches but he is at Orthodox churches. More of God is good whereever you are and whether that is a sacrmental prescence ( Eucharist) or more of the Holy Spirit, more is more and more is good.
God’s peace,
Periannath

Periannath,

Prior to the Azusa Street Revival, the term Fundamentalist or Evangelical would correctly apply to those who attended the revival. Pentecostals hold to many of the same beliefs of the Fundamentalists; so it is easier to explain to someone, unfamiliar with the various shades of Protestantism, what Pentecostals believe by using a reference to something familiar.

The Roman and Orthodox Churches precede the Protestant denominations and movements by over 1,500 years. They provide valid witness as to the nature and character of the Faith and Traditions handed down to the Church from the Apostles. What Rome and the East share in common in their beliefs and traditions tell us much about the true nature of the Early Church. The Charisms have never ceased from occurring in the Church; but what Pentecostals, today, call the operation of the Charisms in the Church is not something the Apostles would recognize as valid. There is no solid Biblical or theological basis for what Pentecostals call “speaking in tongues”. When you look at the Scriptures, people who spoke in tongues were speaking in a language understood by someone in their midst and not as a “prayer language”. And I will not disagree with you that “a” spirit is working in the Protestant Churches. I just don’t see any evidence that it is the Holy Spirit. I trust the Faith of the Apostles, as preserved by the Church (Rome and the East) and not the faith of those who have sold their birthright for a bowl of porridge. Remember I used to believe all that Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and Pentecostals believed; but when I sought the true nature of Christianity I found myself coming home to the Apostolic Faith found in the East and Rome.

 

[Phil12123]

The Charisms have never ceased from occurring in the Church; but what Pentecostals, today, call the operation of the Charisms in the Church is not something the Apostles would recognize as valid. There is no solid Biblical or theological basis for what Pentecostals call “speaking in tongues”. When you look at the Scriptures, people who spoke in tongues were speaking in a language understood by someone in their midst and not as a “prayer language”.

I’m no expert for sure but if by “the Charisms” you mean the gifts of the Spirit, have you personally witnessed their operation today in “the East and Rome” in a way as you have described (since you say they have never ceased from occurring in the Church) that you believe is biblical?

I think Pentecostals would say tongues as you describe as biblical and tongues used as a “prayer language” both have “solid Biblical or theological basis.” The former is supported by Acts 2:5-11 and the latter is supported by 1 Cor. 14:2, 14-19. The latter verses show a distinction between speaking in the tongues when speaking to God (that’s prayer) and when in the assembly in corporate worship. Paul said he speaks in tongues more than all the Corinthians (14:18) yet in the church he would rather speak 5 words that teaches others than 10,000 words in a tongue that no one else understands (v. 19). So where does he speak in tongues “more than them all”? It would have to be in prayer (see also Rom. 8:26-27), rather than in corporate worship where others would not be benefited.

Remember I used to believe all that Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and Pentecostals believed; but when I sought the true nature of Christianity I found myself coming home to the Apostolic Faith found in the East and Rome.

So, did you practice, or do you now practice, any of “the Charisms”?

 

[Phil12123]

**Thanks to our non-Catholic posters who’ve offered their observations about the OP’s question.

It’s key that we don’t mis-characterize the faith interpretations of others on the forum and help fellow Christians and truth-seekers correct any errors we might post. Otherwise, we Catholics here on CAF would be as guilty as those elsewhere who mis-characterize us. **

AMEN!!!

 

[Periannath]

Periannath,

Prior to the Azusa Street Revival, the term Fundamentalist or Evangelical would correctly apply to those who attended the revival. Pentecostals hold to many of the same beliefs of the Fundamentalists; so it is easier to explain to someone, unfamiliar with the various shades of Protestantism, what Pentecostals believe by using a reference to something familiar.

The Roman and Orthodox Churches precede the Protestant denominations and movements by over 1,500 years. They provide valid witness as to the nature and character of the Faith and Traditions handed down to the Church from the Apostles. What Rome and the East share in common in their beliefs and traditions tell us much about the true nature of the Early Church. The Charisms have never ceased from occurring in the Church; but what Pentecostals, today, call the operation of the Charisms in the Church is not something the Apostles would recognize as valid. There is no solid Biblical or theological basis for what Pentecostals call “speaking in tongues”. When you look at the Scriptures, people who spoke in tongues were speaking in a language understood by someone in their midst and not as a “prayer language”. And I will not disagree with you that “a” spirit is working in the Protestant Churches. I just don’t see any evidence that it is the Holy Spirit. I trust the Faith of the Apostles, as preserved by the Church (Rome and the East) and not the faith of those who have sold their birthright for a bowl of porridge. Remember I used to believe all that Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, and Pentecostals believed; but when I sought the true nature of Christianity I found myself coming home to the Apostolic Faith found in the East and Rome.

By the modern Evangelica lmovement I meant the movement that is largly represented by the NAE (National Association of Evangelicals) which formed after the Pentecostal movement began and many of the classical Pentecostal churches where formed. The Pentecostal movement came out of the Wesylian-holiness movement which most people would recognize. Again, not all Pentecostals handel the Scriptures like fundementalists do and they are not the same, for the reasons mentioned above.

Of course the RCC and the Orthodox churches preceded the Pentecostal movement, I was only reffering to the Charismatic, renewal movements that have and still have impact (though probably more in the RCC than in the Orthodox churches).

On tounges, there has already been an adequate response. Again, I think it is unfair of you to limit the work of the Spirit to only churches with your understanding of apostolic succession. The Bible clearly illustrates that He blows where he wills (John 3)
Peace.

 

[Polycarp1]

The Lord calls out to all sinners, many who come wounded in various ways. I believe that some initially need the emotional aspects of alter calls, being slain in the spirit, and the euphoria etc that some services provide to help them open up to the ministrations of the Holy Spirit. But as time goes buy we are all called to more spiritual maturity, growing in faith and moving closer to where the Lord wants us to be. There are many doors for those who seek truth. If we sincerely seek the truth and not fall into the trap of thinking we know it all, the lord will lead us home.

There is a danger however when people get “addicted to the emotional highs” and when the highs fade and they search for another sourse to try and get the emotion back again rather then to grow spiritually. They can end up moving from church to church and evangelist to evangelist, but not really making any spiritual headway.

Faith is not about emotion it is about what you know to be true. We are called to walk in the desert as that is the only way we can exercise and strengthen our faith. It is not fun when we feel seperated from God, but those are bthe times when we are called to rely on faith alone and in fact when we are closest to the Lord. When the emotion fades and the honeymoon is over that is the time to be still and listen for the Holy Spirit speaking to us in the stillness of our hearts.

 

[ladybri77]

The Lord calls out to all sinners, many who come wounded in various ways. I believe that some initially need the emotional aspects of alter calls, being slain in the spirit, and the euphoria etc that some services provide to help them open up to the ministrations of the Holy Spirit. But as time goes buy we are all called to more spiritual maturity, growing in faith and moving closer to where the Lord wants us to be. There are many doors for those who seek truth. If we sincerely seek the truth and not fall into the trap of thinking we know it all, the lord will lead us home.

There is a danger however when people get “addicted to the emotional highs” and when the highs fade and they search for another sourse to try and get the emotion back again rather then to grow spiritually. They can end up moving from church to church and evangelist to evangelist, but not really making any spiritual headway.

Faith is not about emotion it is about what you know to be true. We are called to walk in the desert as that is the only way we can exercise and strengthen our faith. It is not fun when we feel seperated from God, but those are bthe times when we are called to rely on faith alone and in fact when we are closest to the Lord. When the emotion fades and the honeymoon is over that is the time to be still and listen for the Holy Spirit speaking to us in the stillness of our hearts.

So true!! The desert experience can help us to grow spiritually and move closer to God as we rely on faith instead of emotion as that does fade. That said, there is nothing wrong with praising and worshiping the Lord in a charismatic way as the Psalms clearly state that He loves to be worshipped in this way. Of course, any way will do, but there is something special about lifting your heart and soul (and hands) to Him in an outflowing of emotion to the heavens, and as scripture also states using the gift of tongues as a prayer language for yourself and when there’s an interpreter in a congregation.

I have not been a part of this type worship in a while, but every once in a while I visit a church where this type worship takes place. I especially like the healing Masses and likewise Assemblies of God or nondenominational services where they lay hands on people who are prayed over for different things. I believe this is a very powerful form of prayer. “Where two or three are gathered, there I am among them”. ? verse

I think it can be very helpful to worship and pray in the Holy Spirit with a collective group of people now and then. God’s power is manifested then in a powerful way. When we call on the Holy Spriit to release His power and anoint His people, things happen! I believe it isn’t all emotional but spiritual too!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, VetA,

You took the words right out’ta my mouth!

I also had the thought of some type of mass hysteria could have been involved here - small group, all emotional and well focused in a small area with diminishing oxygen levels… hmmmmm… it was a good thing that the preacher was not talking about the Devil!

God bless

sounds delusional. btw did you leave a comment that says Jesus goes to every catholic Mass, every time it is offered, anywhere in the world, every single day (except good Friday) of the year. even then they still have some consecrated hosts in the Tabernacle

if jesus walked into that room it was to lead them by the hands to the nearest Catholic Church .

that practice of altar call seems to be a way of showboating and ridicule (possibly) by saying if you dont go up your not as Christian as your neighbor.

 

[ladybri77]

Hi, VetA,

You took the words right out’ta my mouth!

I also had the thought of some type of mass hysteria could have been involved here - small group, all emotional and well focused in a small area with diminishing oxygen levels… hmmmmm… it was a good thing that the preacher was not talking about the Devil!

God bless

But it is not showboating nor ridicule…maybe those people sitting in the seats have already accepted Jesus into their hearts.

 

[AliciaCL]

sounds delusional. btw did you leave a comment that says Jesus goes to every catholic Mass, every time it is offered, anywhere in the world, every single day (except good Friday) of the year. even then they still have some consecrated hosts in the Tabernacle . . . if jesus walked into that room it was to lead them by the hands to the nearest Catholic Church .

Often wonder if we Catholics could attract more Protestants and Evangelicals if we explained that Christ makes himself present at each Mass, everywhere, everytime, worldwide in a mystical joining of past and present. Somewhere I heard that when Jews celebrate Passover they say prayers in which they intentionally use the present tense of the Hebrew language because the past IS the present. That’s what is going on in the Mass also.

I thought Holy Saturday was the only day in the year when there was no consecrated host in the tabernacle because Christ’s human body was then dead. The larger point is that Christ is otherwise always present in the tabernacle, in every Catholic church worldwide, all the time, except for that day (or 2) during the passion and death of Christ.

Although this altar call business seems very whacky to us, remember most of our our Christian bretheren have not had the opportunity to learn the fullness of the Catholic faith. I don’t think it is appropriate for us to say that Jesus is never with them. Maybe He is, maybe He isn’t there during these altar calls. That really isn’t for us to say. I’m unaware of any actual teaching by the RCC that these other Christians are “wrong.” I bristle at the emotional hype of some of these denominations and find some practices down right irreverent. Still, we have to remember that we believe their faith is truncated. Though it is often very difficult, we need to remember that they do not know this. They are not the original protestants who rejected the church. They literally don’t know any better. Our point and mission is to when possible share the fullness of the faith with them.

 

[ladybri77]

Often wonder if we Catholics could attract more Protestants and Evangelicals if we explained that Christ makes himself present at each Mass, everywhere, everytime, worldwide in a mystical joining of past and present. Somewhere I heard that when Jews celebrate Passover they say prayers in which they intentionally use the present tense of the Hebrew language because the past IS the present. That’s what is going on in the Mass also.

I thought Holy Saturday was the only day in the year when there was no consecrated host in the tabernacle because Christ’s human body was then dead. The larger point is that Christ is otherwise always present in the tabernacle, in every Catholic church worldwide, all the time, except for that day (or 2) during the passion and death of Christ.

Although this altar call business seems very whacky to us, remember most of our our Christian bretheren have not had the opportunity to learn the fullness of the Catholic faith. I don’t think it is appropriate for us to say that Jesus is never with them. Maybe He is, maybe He isn’t there during these altar calls. That really isn’t for us to say. I’m unaware of any actual teaching by the RCC that these other Christians are “wrong.” I bristle at the emotional hype of some of these denominations and find some practices down right irreverent. Still, we have to remember that we believe their faith is truncated. Though it is often very difficult, we need to remember that they do not know this. They are not the original protestants who rejected the church. They literally don’t know any better. Our point and mission is to when possible share the fullness of the faith with them.

I read an article once and I truly believe in my heart that many Protestants or people who are practicing at nondenominational churches are saved, truly love the Lord with all their heart and have much of the Holy Spirit living within them, moreso than many Catholics do. And that God is not the respecter of religions but can live in people’s hearts no matter what religion they practice.

I’ve met so many warm, loving people in these Protestant denominations who love the Lord with all their hearts and who have nailed it on the head in their congregations with healing ministries, ministries to the sick and addicted, poverty, you name it! I have taken part in some of these ministries because they seem to be so in touch with the spirit of God in outreaching ministry in the community. One ministry in particular I was involved with helped me immensely.

Emotionalism is not the answer, however. It’s faith in God whether emotion is there or not. My experience is that the people who attend these churches demonstrate their faith in powerful ways and know Who the Lord is through His Word which we are all called to meditate on daily.

It would be good if they had more knowledge about the Catholic church, however, as the above poster described.

 

[4Squarebaby]

But it is not showboating nor ridicule…maybe those people sitting in the seats have already accepted Jesus into their hearts.

Let me put it another way. Suppose we had a community which held a mandatory meeting every week. And at this meeting everybody except foriegners and those who did something bad had to step forward to receive something from a community leader.

Those who don’t step forward are seen by everybody and they know he did something bad. When they explain to others what the leader gives them it has to be in emotional terms because it is super natural.

Is there not social pressure involved? Do a percentage of people who did a bad thing step forward anyway so everybody else doesn’t then know they were bad?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Ladybri,

This is an interesting position you have presented. After reading it several times, it appears to me to be built upon emotionalism and relativism.

Yes, for people who truly believe that the protestant or non-denominational belief is the way to Christ, the Catholic Church does accommodates this position.

No, God is a ‘respector of religions’ in the sense that He sent His Only Begotten Son to save us from sin and founded His Church (and, that would be the Catholic Church) on Peter as The Way we are to approach God. Christ gave us the Sacraments - and the protestants went to great lengths to throw them out of their belief system. Christalso went to great lenghts, while He was on earth, to convince the Jews that He was the awaited Messiah and that He was changing the relationship between God and man. The Jews rejected Him because He did not meet their expectations. The protestants rejected His Church.

Let’s see how this works out in practice…

I read an article once and I truly believe in my heart that many Protestants or people who are practicing at nondenominational churches are saved, truly love the Lord with all their heart and have much of the Holy Spirit living within them, moreso than many Catholics do.

Woooooooo … just what are you using to base this statement, “…moreso than many Catholics do…”? How can you possibly quantify such a satement?

And that God is not the respecter of religions but can live in people’s hearts no matter what religion they practice.

Is this really different from saying that something like, “God made us and loves and and we are all going to heaven?” If it is different, please clarify.

I’ve met so many warm, loving people in these Protestant denominations who love the Lord with all their hearts and who have nailed it on the head in their congregations with healing ministries, ministries to the sick and addicted, poverty, you name it! I have taken part in some of these ministries because they seem to be so in touch with the spirit of God in outreaching ministry in the community. One ministry in particular I was involved with helped me immensely.

I am very happy that you were personally helped by one particular ministry, but anecdote is not the singular of data. If you are going to non-Catholic services, do you feel you are witnessing to them the truth of the Catholic Faith, or is it they who are witnessing to you that break-away protestantism is the way to go. Seriously, statement like this appear to fall short of Catholics actually upholding the Truth of the Church of Christ (the Catholic Church)

Emotionalism is not the answer, however. It’s faith in God whether emotion is there or not. My experience is that the people who attend these churches demonstrate their faith in powerful ways and know Who the Lord is through His Word which we are all called to meditate on daily.

OK, Ladybri, while you say that emotionalism is not the answer, it would appear that it goes a long way in the way to explain their position. It would appear that explaing your own view of Catholic belief did not quite make it to this post…

It would be good if they had more knowledge about the Catholic church, however, as the above poster described.

Well, given your stated proximity to some of these groups, maybe you could tell us how you spreading the Faith that Christ entrusted to Peter when he was given the Keys. I really do not know where you are coming from on this matter.

God bless

 

[ladybri77]

Let me put it another way. Suppose we had a community which held a mandatory meeting every week. And at this meeting everybody except foriegners and those who did something bad had to step forward to receive something from a community leader.

Those who don’t step forward are seen by everybody and they know he did something bad. When they explain to others what the leader gives them it has to be in emotional terms because it is super natural.

Is there not social pressure involved? Do a percentage of people who did a bad thing step forward anyway so everybody else doesn’t then know they were bad?

There’s nothing “emotional” by coming forward to accept Jesus. A lot of times people do not have an emotional experience when they come forward and recite the prayer and are prayed over. All it is is professing your faith in Him in front of a congregation which we are all called to do. We Catholics do this at confirmation when we profess our belief in Christ before others.

If I know someone who has done something bad and does not come forward at an altar call, then I’m thinking maybe he’s not ready yet and will continue to pray for that person. On the other hand maybe a person does feel “pressured” for one reason or another, and then he would be in the wrong, but I don’t think collectively everyone is “pressured” but they just might think about it a little more when they see people going up…which might be a good thing!

 

[4Squarebaby]

There’s nothing “emotional” by coming forward to accept Jesus. A lot of times people do not have an emotional experience when they come forward and recite the prayer and are prayed over. All it is is professing your faith in Him in front of a congregation which we are all called to do. We Catholics do this at confirmation when we profess our belief in Christ before others.

If I know someone who has done something bad and does not come forward at an altar call, then I’m thinking maybe he’s not ready yet and will continue to pray for that person. On the other hand maybe a person does feel “pressured” for one reason or another, and then he would be in the wrong, but I don’t think collectively everyone is “pressured” but they just might think about it a little more when they see people going up…which might be a good thing!

So if I am following you right with the public sign of continued faith it would be like stepping forward for a weekly baptism if we were talking about my church?

Part of me hope that I am reading the other part wrong that emotions are not invovled it is just following orders and obedience?

 

[ladybri77]

No, God is a ‘respector of religions’ in the sense that He sent His Only Begotten Son to save us from sin and founded His Church (and, that would be the Catholic Church) on Peter as The Way we are to approach God.

I should have said God is not a “respecter of persons” in any given religion. In other words, Protestants can have Jesus in their hearts just as much as Catholics can. I am surely no relativist, but I know that God’s truth and love are not limited to the Catholic church. I have met many Holy Spirit filled Christians (people with Jesus in their hearts) on fire with the Lord through nondenominational or Assemblies of God churches. That has been my experience. You cannot limit God’s promise of salvation to Catholics only. His gift of salvation is free to anyone. But just as a disclaimer, I do not believe Jesus or God is found in all religions, i.e., Buddhaism, Hinduism and the like.

I believe in the truths of the Holy Catholic church, however, all I’m saying is don’t limit others experience of knowing Christ in their own Christian denominations as I and others have experienced this very much so in these churches. I have also witnessed for the Catholic faith to a particular Protestant person which I feel has been very fruitful in that I believe God was speaking through me.

I am in no way being swayed to leave the Catholic church by Protestant influences, I’m sorry you interpreted what I said that way. I find that since we all have different personalities, people choose different religions for their own reasons based on their personality, and even though there are many truths and wonderful blessings in the Catholic church, people are comfortable with their own style of worship whether it be emotional or not, and can be touched by God with different styles of worship which aren’t always the way you and I would desire.

I sometimes wish they could see the richness of what the Catholic church possesses in the way of sacraments, the Real Presence, and different forms of prayer, so they could experience the blessings in them. The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist has been and can be a very powerful turning point for converts I know who have converted to Catholicism. I believe there are many tools in the Church that contribute to a closer relationship with God that the Protestant churches don’t experience, and that is too bad.

Like I said in a prior post, it is not just emotionalism you would experience in visiting one of these churches, it can be a spiritual awakening just as much which could lead one closer to God, so let’s not judge a book by its cover until we have experienced it ourselves or ask a person first hand how this style of worship has affected their relationship with God.

Some of them are so filled with the Lord, it is truly amazing. The gifts of the Spirit seen in those churches is remarkable. They aren’t afraid to use these gifts, i.e., lay hands on someone and have the healing power of God flow through them and then that person is healed. God’s power is available to us all to minister to His people, and you see these “hands on” gifts manifested more in these type churches.

 

[AliciaCL]

I should have said God is not a “respecter of persons” in any given religion. In other words, Protestants can have Jesus in their hearts just as much as Catholics can. I am surely no relativist, but I know that God’s truth and love are not limited to the Catholic church. I have met many Holy Spirit filled Christians (people with Jesus in their hearts) on fire with the Lord through nondenominational or Assemblies of God churches. That has been my experience. You cannot limit God’s promise of salvation to Catholics only. His gift of salvation is free to anyone. But just as a disclaimer, I do not think Jesus or God is found in all religions, i.e., Buddhaism, Hinduism and the like.

. . . I find that since we all have different personalities, people choose different religions for their own reasons based on their personality, and even though there are many truths and wonderful blessings in the Catholic church, people are comfortable with their own style of worship whether it be emotional or not, and can be touched by God with different styles of worship which aren’t always the way you and I would desire.

I sometimes wish they could see the richness of what the Catholic church possesses in the way of sacraments, the Real Presence, and different forms of prayer, so they could experience the blessings in them. The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist has been and can be a very powerful turning point for converts I know who have converted to Catholicism. I believe there are many tools in the Church that contribute to a closer relationship with God that the Protestant churches don’t experience, and that is too bad.
. . .
.

Concur that many Protestants experience God and they can absolutely obtain salvation. But, as Catholics we do have a striking difference in fundamental belief. We do not believe in once saved always saved; many Protestants do. We don’t judge what may happen to them in the next life. Although it is not doctrinal for us, we may think that God will indeed have mercy on any of them who who committed damning sins without absolution because they never really knew the full faith.(examples: technical adultery by divorced & remarried persons, abortion by those who believe it is acceptable, homosexual acts by those who believe it is not immoral). Also, personality and a preferred style of worship as you say, has nothing to do with “chosing” a church for worship. I’d love to have some of the social interactions that Protestants have but I’d never give up the RCC for it. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t touch Protestants. It’s a great irony that many of their efforts are helping Catholics go deeper in the study of our own faith. I think this is a step toward ultimate unity, which we know God desires. I feel sorry for the deeply religious Protestants because the sins of their forefathers 500+ years ago are now visited upon them. They have been separated from Christ’s church and do not know the fullness of the faith – and they don’t know they don’t know. Eccumenism is great but we must be careful not to slide away from foundational RCC doctrine. Eccumenism is really, really hard.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Ladybri,

No argument there - “God is no respector of persons…” Rom 2:11 is a good reference for this quote. The Catholic Chuch has never said that protestants can’t have Jesus in their hearts or on their minds or anywhere else. But, let me tell you about ‘relativism’ as I read your post. The emphasis on ‘Holy Spirit filled Christians’ as non-Catholics and a minimizing of the Catholics you have encountered in your life appers to establish a dynamic that has an uncertain destination (at least, uncertain to me). This is just a heads-up … maybe you would like to talk about a Catholic that you have found to be ‘Spirit filled’…?

I should have said God is not a “respecter of persons” in any given religion. In other words, Protestants can have Jesus in their hearts just as much as Catholics can. I am surely no relativist, but I know that God’s truth and love are not limited to the Catholic church. I have met many Holy Spirit filled Christians (people with Jesus in their hearts) on fire with the Lord through nondenominational or Assemblies of God churches. That has been my experience. You cannot limit God’s promise of salvation to Catholics only. His gift of salvation is free to anyone. But just as a disclaimer, I do not believe Jesus or God is found in all religions, i.e., Buddhaism, Hinduism and the like.

I believe in the truths of the Holy Catholic church, however, all I’m saying is don’t limit others experience of knowing Christ in their own Christian denominations as I and others have experienced this very much so in these churches. I have also witnessed for the Catholic faith to a particular Protestant person which I feel has been very fruitful in that I believe God was speaking through me.

I am in no way being swayed to leave the Catholic church by Protestant influences, I’m sorry you interpreted what I said that way. I find that since we all have different personalities, people choose different religions for their own reasons based on their personality, and even though there are many truths and wonderful blessings in the Catholic church, people are comfortable with their own style of worship whether it be emotional or not, and can be touched by God with different styles of worship which aren’t always the way you and I would desire.

I sometimes wish they could see the richness of what the Catholic church possesses in the way of sacraments, the Real Presence, and different forms of prayer, so they could experience the blessings in them. The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist has been and can be a very powerful turning point for converts I know who have converted to Catholicism. I believe there are many tools in the Church that contribute to a closer relationship with God that the Protestant churches don’t experience, and that is too bad.

Like I said in a prior post, it is not just emotionalism you would experience in visiting one of these churches, it can be a spiritual awakening just as much which could lead one closer to God, so let’s not judge a book by its cover until we have experienced it ourselves or ask a person first hand how this style of worship has affected their relationship with God.

Some of them are so filled with the Lord, it is truly amazing. The gifts of the Spirit seen in those churches is remarkable. They aren’t afraid to use these gifts, i.e., lay hands on someone and have the healing power of God flow through them and then that person is healed. God’s power is available to us all to minister to His people, and you see these “hands on” gifts manifested more in these type churches.

When I told you that personal experience is no substitute for data - I am being quite serious. Many people have had ‘personal experience’ and been lead away from the Truth! How could this be - especially when we can clearly and unmistakenly identify those who are ‘Spirit filled’ and those who aren’t?

Well… it goes like this: Matt 24:24, “False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect.” Is it possible to be deceived by the Devil? Yes. Have others been deceived by him? Yes, and we can start off with Adam and Eve - who did not have the burden of Original Sin consequences when they first encountered the Evil One.

So, all of this talk about ‘spirits’ … there really has to be some evaluation or discernment of these spirits to see if they are from God or the Devil. The Catholic Church is the only organization certified by God to lead men without error to Christ. All of the other groups - no matter how well intentioned - do not have such a guarantee. I am delighted to read that you are not being lured away from your Cahtolic faith. Apparently, such thoughts are based on a mis-reading of your posts. Sorry about that…

God bless

 

[Emerite]

Out of curiosity, I went with a cousin to a Reverend Gorman’s Assembly of God service several years ago in New Orleans. I saw and heard many members of the congregation speaking in “tongues.” The reverend was on stage, and asked us to bow our heads as he described a beautiful out-of-door nature scene. When I lowered my head and listened to him, it was difficult to keep from being hypnotized. Then members went to the front where churchmen pressed on their foreheads, and many keeled over in what they call being “slain in the spirit.” Although I see good Christian/Judaeo values while attending many Protestant and Jewish services, they’ll never compare to the complete devotion of the Roman Catholic Church as the original, one true Christian Church.

 

[ladybri77]

Hi, Ladybri,

No argument there - “God is no respector of persons…” Rom 2:11 is a good reference for this quote. The Catholic Chuch has never said that protestants can’t have Jesus in their hearts or on their minds or anywhere else. But, let me tell you about ‘relativism’ as I read your post. The emphasis on ‘Holy Spirit filled Christians’ as non-Catholics and a minimizing of the Catholics you have encountered in your life appers to establish a dynamic that has an uncertain destination (at least, uncertain to me). This is just a heads-up … maybe you would like to talk about a Catholic that you have found to be ‘Spirit filled’…?

Yes, the charismatic movement is still alive in the Catholic church of which I have been a part of. I know of many “Spirit-filled” Catholics. We have a healing Mass here on Monday nights in which the gift of healing is manifested. We have also had masses where people have been slain in the Spirit.

True, I believe that scripture as well in that we have to make sure the leaders are actually Spirit-filled or sound biblical preachers. True about the Catholic church being grounded in the Truth, I am just saying there are many other denominations which are also grounded in it also. And yes, they are ignorant of and missing out on the fullness of the Catholic church. Usually if someone is truly born-again, they believe the above sins are wrong also, so no guessing there.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Emerite,

Excellent post.

Tom

Out of curiosity, I went with a cousin to a Reverend Gorman’s Assembly of God service several years ago in New Orleans. I saw and heard many members of the congregation speaking in “tongues.” The reverend was on stage, and asked us to bow our heads as he described a beautiful out-of-door nature scene. When I lowered my head and listened to him, it was difficult to keep from being hypnotized. Then members went to the front where churchmen pressed on their foreheads, and many keeled over in what they call being “slain in the spirit.” Although I see good Christian/Judaeo values while attending many Protestant and Jewish services, they’ll never compare to the complete devotion of the Roman Catholic Church as the original, one true Christian Church.