Assembly of God

[Katrina5]

My sister went to Catholic schools through eighth grade. She married a Protestant, and about ten years later got “saved” and left the Catholic Church.
She is now an AOG member, and seems to enjoy the loud praise and worship, and babbling in tongues.
She has said to me things like, “Your Catholic God” which leads me to think she believes there is more than one God.
She thinks the Epistles are “Gospels”.
She has no idea who King James is, and doesn’t think that’s important.
She doesn’t know where the word Protestant came from, and doesn’t care.
She confuses Martin Luther with Martin Luther King, Jr.
She thinks Joan of Arc is a Biblical figure.
She said she would “never bow down and kiss a Man’s ring” (The Pope)
HOWEVER, there are so many problems in her church with people fighting and starting new churches when there are disagreements.
And, she may not bow down and kiss a man’s ring, but when Pastor Tim left, she went to HIS church, so it isn’t about Jesus at all, it’s about who can PREACH the best.
She thinks The Word Made Flesh is the Bible.
She has no clue who the Early Church Fathers are. In her Church History class, they teach that Clement, Iraneus, etc “didn’t live very long” which means they were wrong. Seems to forget Jesus lived only 33 years.
She has no idea who Jerome is.
Pastor Tim knows a little Hebrew and a little Greek, so he is ‘learned’ but has no seminary training.
The Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, and will be cast into the Lake of Fire for worshipping statues, praying to Mary and Saints.
They know about twenty Bible verses that back up their beliefs.
Oh, and on the ‘levels of sin’ thing? Homosexuality is THE worst sin there is. She has been divorced three times.
I finally decided that she wasn’t paying attention during the years when she made her first Holy Communion, Confession, or Confirmation-- except St Joan was her Confirmation name!
I stopped trying to help her, because the people in her church are not nice to her. But I do pray for her every day.
We have to trust that the Holy Spirit will guide everyone to the Truth.

 

[cyber1call]

There are ignorant and foolish people in all denominations. We should love them and pray for them.

 

[1holycatholic]

My sister went to Catholic schools through eighth grade. She married a Protestant, and about ten years later got “saved” and left the Catholic Church.
She is now an AOG member, and seems to enjoy the loud praise and worship, and babbling in tongues.
She has said to me things like, “Your Catholic God” which leads me to think she believes there is more than one God.
She thinks the Epistles are “Gospels”.
She has no idea who King James is, and doesn’t think that’s important.
She doesn’t know where the word Protestant came from, and doesn’t care.
She confuses Martin Luther with Martin Luther King, Jr.
She thinks Joan of Arc is a Biblical figure.
She said she would “never bow down and kiss a Man’s ring” (The Pope)
HOWEVER, there are so many problems in her church with people fighting and starting new churches when there are disagreements.
And, she may not bow down and kiss a man’s ring, but when Pastor Tim left, she went to HIS church, so it isn’t about Jesus at all, it’s about who can PREACH the best.
She thinks The Word Made Flesh is the Bible.
She has no clue who the Early Church Fathers are. In her Church History class, they teach that Clement, Iraneus, etc “didn’t live very long” which means they were wrong. Seems to forget Jesus lived only 33 years.
She has no idea who Jerome is.
Pastor Tim knows a little Hebrew and a little Greek, so he is ‘learned’ but has no seminary training.
The Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, and will be cast into the Lake of Fire for worshipping statues, praying to Mary and Saints.
They know about twenty Bible verses that back up their beliefs.
Oh, and on the ‘levels of sin’ thing? Homosexuality is THE worst sin there is. She has been divorced three times.
I finally decided that she wasn’t paying attention during the years when she made her first Holy Communion, Confession, or Confirmation-- except St Joan was her Confirmation name!
I stopped trying to help her, because the people in her church are not nice to her. But I do pray for her every day.
We have to trust that the Holy Spirit will guide everyone to the Truth.

I have a family member who was mistreated by the members of the local AoG.

It sounds like Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Steven_John]

We all are “sick” to some extent and all need the Great Physician to heal us. I was wondering what the best way is to deal with people who are atheist. Certainly it should not be the way former President Bush did by calling them “un-american and not fit to be citizens of this country!” We expect them to respect our beliefs, how do we respect theirs? Many of them it seems are quite set in their ways and seem to have plausable answers for why they are atheist. I see them as one of the most persecuted groups in the world if not this country.

peace and blessings to you and yours,
I think you have asked a very wide question as every human including atheists is an individual.
We need to pray for Br George, being a believer is not exclusive to being American it is a much wider family that covers our globe. Also we are given a gift of free will and atheists have a God given right to exercise it how they want. To do otherwise is against God.

I would like to offer you a track for dialog that can help atheists to see God is with them but i dont know plausible reasons to be an atheist. Could u share with me how you approach discussion and some of the reasons you have been offered.

 

[LegoGE1947]

peace and blessings to you and yours,
I think you have asked a very wide question as every human including atheists is an individual.
We need to pray for Br George, being a believer is not exclusive to being American it is a much wider family that covers our globe. Also we are given a gift of free will and atheists have a God given right to exercise it how they want. To do otherwise is against God.

I would like to offer you a track for dialog that can help atheists to see God is with them but i dont know plausible reasons to be an atheist. Could u share with me how you approach discussion and some of the reasons you have been offered.

I found an interesting website about atheism which is atheism.about.com/od/atheismatheiststheism/tp/DebateKillers.htm. Actually I haven’t approached discussion because I have felt intimidated in the past. I have been studying what is in this website. Their seem to be plausible reasons for this belief just as their are plausible reasons for belief in a personal God!

 

[LegoGE1947]

My sister went to Catholic schools through eighth grade. She married a Protestant, and about ten years later got “saved” and left the Catholic Church.
She is now an AOG member, and seems to enjoy the loud praise and worship, and babbling in tongues.
She has said to me things like, “Your Catholic God” which leads me to think she believes there is more than one God.
She thinks the Epistles are “Gospels”.
She has no idea who King James is, and doesn’t think that’s important.
She doesn’t know where the word Protestant came from, and doesn’t care.
She confuses Martin Luther with Martin Luther King, Jr.
She thinks Joan of Arc is a Biblical figure.
She said she would “never bow down and kiss a Man’s ring” (The Pope)
HOWEVER, there are so many problems in her church with people fighting and starting new churches when there are disagreements.
And, she may not bow down and kiss a man’s ring, but when Pastor Tim left, she went to HIS church, so it isn’t about Jesus at all, it’s about who can PREACH the best.
She thinks The Word Made Flesh is the Bible.
She has no clue who the Early Church Fathers are. In her Church History class, they teach that Clement, Iraneus, etc “didn’t live very long” which means they were wrong. Seems to forget Jesus lived only 33 years.
She has no idea who Jerome is.
Pastor Tim knows a little Hebrew and a little Greek, so he is ‘learned’ but has no seminary training.
The Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, and will be cast into the Lake of Fire for worshipping statues, praying to Mary and Saints.
They know about twenty Bible verses that back up their beliefs.
Oh, and on the ‘levels of sin’ thing? Homosexuality is THE worst sin there is. She has been divorced three times.
I finally decided that she wasn’t paying attention during the years when she made her first Holy Communion, Confession, or Confirmation-- except St Joan was her Confirmation name!
I stopped trying to help her, because the people in her church are not nice to her. But I do pray for her every day.
We have to trust that the Holy Spirit will guide everyone to the Truth.

My priest says we are not praying TO Mary and the saints but rather asking them to pray WITH us per James 5:16 “The effective prayers of a righteous man avail much” and who could be anymore righteous than those who are in the very presence of the Almighty! You point out the double standard where they say Homosexuality is the ULTIMATE sin yet some of them have been married and divorced several times. As to Bible verses they pretty much know John 3:16 and Acts chapter 2 about the apostles speaking in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit. For them the “early church fathers” are the likes of Arminius, the Wesleys, Charles Grandison Finney, the founders of their own denomination. etc.

 

[sambos671]

I think to clarify you sister about the “Catholic God” is an indication that Catholics do not worship the Christian God but have an idol instead. It’s just ignorance. However, the fact that she believes is what spurs her on. She needs education. As do most “born Again” believers.

 

[1holycatholic]

I have a family member who was mistreated by the members of the local AoG.

It sounds like Stockholm Syndrome.

Just to clarify.

That family member is a member of AoG who was mistreated/exploited by members of the local AoG in the normal course of AoG functions.

 

[Katrina5]

My priest says we are not praying TO Mary and the saints but rather asking them to pray WITH us per James 5:16 “The effective prayers of a righteous man avail much” and who could be anymore righteous than those who are in the very presence of the Almighty! You point out the double standard where they say Homosexuality is the ULTIMATE sin yet some of them have been married and divorced several times. As to Bible verses they pretty much know John 3:16 and Acts chapter 2 about the apostles speaking in tongues when they received the Holy Spirit. For them the “early church fathers” are the likes of Arminius, the Wesleys, Charles Grandison Finney, the founders of their own denomination. etc.

When people say we “worship” Mary, they don’t know the difference between worship and honor. We pray (ask) saints to pray with us, just the same as we ask our friends to “Pray for me”. The problem they have is that Saints are “dead”. However, Saints, (I include my parents and deceased brother) are very much alive in Heaven!
Praying and worshiping statues is another mistaken belief that we are idol worshiping, like the golden calf.
Statues are works of art, not idols. Many people worship money, and they aren’t even aware of it.
There is also a mistaken idea that the Vatican has greedily collected valuable works of art that should be sold off and the money given to the poor. Ignorance, again. The Vatican has been there for centuries and artworks have accumulated over time, making them more valuable.
But the Pope sleeps in a small room and lives very humbly. Someone recently criticised his “fancy clothes”. This Pope is very uncomfortable in those fancy ceremonial clothes. His shoes of “rich, Italian leather” aren’t expensive-- he lives in Italy!
Sen Chuck Grassley of Iowa had been investigating some televangelists who really are doing what these people accuse the Pope of doing.
Every beautiful cathedral was built for the glory of God-- give Him the best-- but I don’t think a mansion in some Southern state is quite the same.
And have you ever seen the suits that Binny Hinn wears?
Some people are so willfully ignorant there is no use talking to them. But we do have to pray for them.
By the way, how did this thread go from Assemblies of God to atheists?

 

[Katrina5]

Just to clarify.

That family member is a member of AoG who was mistreated/exploited by members of the local AoG in the normal course of AoG functions.

I’m curious about this mistreatment, especially since you say it was in the normal course of things. The AoG church my sister attended pretty much wanted her to stop asking them for transportation to and from services. They wouldn’t return phone calls, and she was very hurt by them.
She kept trying for a year to get someone to help her. I think she now goes to another similar “Spirit-filled” church that is on a bus line.

Can you say more about your family member? Maybe it’s my sister and we’re related. (Just kidding)

 

[Katrina5]

I think to clarify you sister about the “Catholic God” is an indication that Catholics do not worship the Christian God but have an idol instead. It’s just ignorance. However, the fact that she believes is what spurs her on. She needs education. As do most “born Again” believers.

Lack of education, especially history, seems to be the biggest problem I have found in trying to reason with these folks.
Willful Ignorance is a terrible thing. Stubbornly refusing to find out more about why you believe what you do is hard to deal with. You might find out you’re wrong. I don’t like to use right and wrong, maybe I should say, “off base.”
I think what impressed me most about Scott Hahn and others like him who studied more about the Church and then admitted he had been wrong, takes not just curiosity and brains, but humility.
Now I’m praying for Rick Warren. He is soooo close, he could come Home in a heartbeat.

 

[LegoGE1947]

When people say we “worship” Mary, they don’t know the difference between worship and honor. We pray (ask) saints to pray with us, just the same as we ask our friends to “Pray for me”. The problem they have is that Saints are “dead”. However, Saints, (I include my parents and deceased brother) are very much alive in Heaven!
Praying and worshiping statues is another mistaken belief that we are idol worshiping, like the golden calf.
Statues are works of art, not idols. Many people worship money, and they aren’t even aware of it.
There is also a mistaken idea that the Vatican has greedily collected valuable works of art that should be sold off and the money given to the poor. Ignorance, again. The Vatican has been there for centuries and artworks have accumulated over time, making them more valuable.
But the Pope sleeps in a small room and lives very humbly. Someone recently criticised his “fancy clothes”. This Pope is very uncomfortable in those fancy ceremonial clothes. His shoes of “rich, Italian leather” aren’t expensive-- he lives in Italy!
Sen Chuck Grassley of Iowa had been investigating some televangelists who really are doing what these people accuse the Pope of doing.
Every beautiful cathedral was built for the glory of God-- give Him the best-- but I don’t think a mansion in some Southern state is quite the same.
And have you ever seen the suits that Binny Hinn wears?
Some people are so willfully ignorant there is no use talking to them. But we do have to pray for them.
By the way, how did this thread go from Assemblies of God to atheists?

Oh it was just me getting off the beaten path with a question about atheists. I gotta get my head around staying on the subject! Sorry.

 

[sambos671]

Lack of education, especially history, seems to be the biggest problem I have found in trying to reason with these folks.
Willful Ignorance is a terrible thing. Stubbornly refusing to find out more about why you believe what you do is hard to deal with. You might find out you’re wrong. I don’t like to use right and wrong, maybe I should say, “off base.”
I think what impressed me most about Scott Hahn and others like him who studied more about the Church and then admitted he had been wrong, takes not just curiosity and brains, but humility.
Now I’m praying for Rick Warren. He is soooo close, he could come Home in a heartbeat.

The problem with the AoG and studying history is that they run right up against the Montanist movement and then have to question their own validity.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Lack of education, especially history, seems to be the biggest problem I have found in trying to reason with these folks.
Willful Ignorance is a terrible thing. Stubbornly refusing to find out more about why you believe what you do is hard to deal with. You might find out you’re wrong. I don’t like to use right and wrong, maybe I should say, “off base.”
I think what impressed me most about Scott Hahn and others like him who studied more about the Church and then admitted he had been wrong, takes not just curiosity and brains, but humility.
Now I’m praying for Rick Warren. He is soooo close, he could come Home in a heartbeat.

It was kind of interesting that Mr Obama included him in the Inaugeration ceremony much to the chagrin of people who don’t like Warren’s policy on abortion and gay marriage etc.

 

[1holycatholic]

The problem with the AoG and studying history is that they run right up against the Montanist movement and then have to question their own validity.

That problem can be avoided through willful ignorance.

 

[Katrina5]

Oh it was just me getting off the beaten path with a question about atheists. I gotta get my head around staying on the subject! Sorry.

No problem! I think this is so interesting.
I got into some pretty deep discussions about atheism when the books started coming out a couple years ago, and concluded that they are mostly areligious, not atheistic. They usually had no education or foundation in religion, had been brought up in a super-rigid denomination, or had been glared at (or worse) by a nun, priest or minister.
Oh, my. I have just gotten off the subject myself. See how easy it is to do.

 

[1holycatholic]

I’m curious about this mistreatment, especially since you say it was in the normal course of things. The AoG church my sister attended pretty much wanted her to stop asking them for transportation to and from services. They wouldn’t return phone calls, and she was very hurt by them.
She kept trying for a year to get someone to help her. I think she now goes to another similar “Spirit-filled” church that is on a bus line.

Can you say more about your family member? Maybe it’s my sister and we’re related. (Just kidding)

I don’t know all of the details, they were hidden from us. I think the AoG must practice tithing plus aka “give till it hurts.” We live in an extremely affluent community where the typical homeowner is around forty years old and the typical household income is triple the state average.

The AoG building was a few hundred feet from the Catholic Church. I think the AoG had 300-400 members. Our parish has 10,000-12,000 parishioners.

The relative is 72 year old woman with about $400.00 per month in Social Security. She already was an AoG member. She moved into our home and lived with us with free room and board. Even with free room and board her expenses (medical, insurance, automobile etc.) left little money for anything else.

On her first visit to the AoG apparently they weren’t interested in having her worship with them. I’m not certain what happened, but she came away from the AoG extremely upset.

She finally did join them when she moved in with us. They would schedule people to buy donuts and coffee for the members for a social after their services. I don’t know how she could afford to do this. All too often one of the other AoG who was scheduled to do this would bail at the last minute and dump the job on her.

Many of the AoG members were fallen away Catholics, usually over “pelvic issues” like divorce and remarriage, contraceptives, female clergy etc… They apparently are quite hostile to the Catholic Church.

I found it odd that while they downplayed the importance of good works, they appeared to have an unwritten rule that those not heavily involved in AoG activities weren’t “saved” (in the Protestant sense.) Further, the AoG profess that evidence of being “saved” (in the Protestant sense) comes through glossolalia, and if you don’t, you aren’t.

 

[Katrina5]

I don’t know all of the details, they were hidden from us. I think the AoG must practice tithing plus aka “give till it hurts.” We live in an extremely affluent community where the typical homeowner is around forty years old and the typical household income is triple the state average.

The AoG building was a few hundred feet from the Catholic Church. I think the AoG had 300-400 members. Our parish has 10,000-12,000 parishioners.

The relative is 72 year old woman with about $400.00 per month in Social Security. She already was an AoG member. She moved into our home and lived with us with free room and board. Even with free room and board her expenses (medical, insurance, automobile etc.) left little money for anything else.

On her first visit to the AoG apparently they weren’t interested in having her worship with them. I’m not certain what happened, but she came away from the AoG extremely upset.

She finally did join them when she moved in with us. They would schedule people to buy donuts and coffee for the members for a social after their services. I don’t know how she could afford to do this. All too often one of the other AoG who was scheduled to do this would bail at the last minute and dump the job on her.

Many of the AoG members were fallen away Catholics, usually over “pelvic issues” like divorce and remarriage, contraceptives, female clergy etc… They apparently are quite hostile to the Catholic Church.

I found it odd that while they downplayed the importance of good works, they appeared to have an unwritten rule that those not heavily involved in AoG activities weren’t “saved” (in the Protestant sense.) Further, the AoG profess that evidence of being “saved” (in the Protestant sense) comes through glossolalia, and if you don’t, you aren’t.

This is quite interesting, since my sister is also on SS, not only did she tithe, she sent money to her TV preachers, and helped with food-related activities at the church, which were not appreciated. Her church also had more affluent people than middle-incomers, and was full of ex-Catholics.
She could never get an appointment with the lead pastor. They assigned her to a female deacon, but she doesn’t believe women should speak in church, so they didn’t hit it off.
They mostly looked down on her, and I met some of them and was…“not impressed.”
The glossalalia was a sore topic, since I think they have it backwards. The Holy Spirit allowed the Apostles to speak in tongues and all would understand, not “no one would understand except that prophet standing next to you.”
They have prophets who come around every year or so and say things like, “Someone here has a heavy heart.” to get the session started. Most of us have something heavy at any given time. Sounds more like classic fortune telling to me.
Some churches like this one,are more of a social club. I do believe we should have a ‘community’ at church, but not a country club.

 

[cyber1call]

All too often one of the other AoG who was scheduled to do this would bail at the last minute and dump the job on her.

That sucks. I’m sure that NEVER happens in any Catholic Church.

Further, the AoG profess that evidence of being “saved” (in the Protestant sense) comes through glossolalia, and if you don’t, you aren’t.

That is simply wrong. No matter what anyone at that particular church may have said, the AoG does NOT believe that glossolalia has anything to do with salvation. They believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit in a manner similar to the disciples on the Day of Pentecost. I don’t personally believe that, but that it how they believe. (I used to be a member of the AoG.)

… “saved” (in the Protestant sense) …

So in what sense do you think Protestants are saved in contrast to how Catholics are saved?

 

[Katrina5]

That sucks. I’m sure that NEVER happens in any Catholic Church.

That is simply wrong. No matter what anyone at that particular church may have said, the AoG does NOT believe that glossolalia has anything to do with salvation. They believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit in a manner similar to the disciples on the Day of Pentecost. I don’t personally believe that, but that it how they believe. (I used to be a member of the AoG.)

So in what sense do you think Protestants are saved in contrast to how Catholics are saved?

“Saved” to my many protestant friends and relatives means “accepting Christ as your PERSONAL Lord and Savior” and you have to use those words.
They don’t think Catholics are “saved” because we believe you also have to live a good life, “go and sin no more”, and we believe in Tradition as well as Scripture.
I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT I AM NOT SAVED BY PROTESTANTS, some of whom I have just met and they ask me where I go to church. When I say I’m Catholic, they try to SAVE me, and it has to be by uttering those words described above.
I HAVE BEEN ATTACKED BY PROTESTANTS, quoting things like what jonathan did about graven images, etc.
I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT I’M GOING TO BE THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE because I don’t speak in tongues.
I usually don’t defend myself, because it does no good, when it becomes so emotionally driven and they are so determined to WIN an argument.
When Jesus said “If you do not eat my body, you have no life in you,” that is a personal relationship with him, don’t you think?