G
Goya
Guest
Eufrosnia;10745831]
It was GOD’S pronouncement, through the ‘Spririt of God’ that appeared as a dove, that made that Christ’s divinity apparent–not the act of baptism. And again, NO mention of the Aposltes there, at all.
i.e.—Assent MUST follow reason.
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See below.
That would be you, sir.
Note: Attempting to disprove my generalization–that Beauty attracts first–with one or two examples that don’t fit the generalization–does not disprove the generalization.
However, one example that contradicts your absolute assertion, disproves your absolute assertion.
Not at all. Why pray tell MUST they assent to John the Baptitst??? Who was he of any significance, aside from his kinship to Christ???First, you have not yet shown this conclusively at all. As I explained, there is even an inconsistency with the facts of the Gospel narrative and what you want to claims (Jesus had not preached anything yet when he called the first Apostle. So their assent must be due to John the Baptist and his authority as a prophet).
It was GOD’S pronouncement, through the ‘Spririt of God’ that appeared as a dove, that made that Christ’s divinity apparent–not the act of baptism. And again, NO mention of the Aposltes there, at all.
Why not? I say it’s possible. Disprove that assertion. You can only do so, by proving that it is IMpossible.Second, the claims you make that “Divine truths can be communicated without reason” is itself a Transcendent claim. There is no need to even believe that to be true.
Strawman–‘must work that way’ implies necessity. you’re the one arguing in absolutes.In other words, if we follow what you say, we could just be believing a lie that we patched up using more Transcendent premises like "Divine truths ***must work this way ***and without reason etc…
i.e.—Assent MUST follow reason.
Who said this at all? I said beauty attracts. It may attract to teh Truth; it may attract to lies; it may attract to danger or death. It simply attracts.To say that beauty attracts one to the truth is logically invalid because
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Assent isn’t Truth either; neither is reason. Pointless observation.The beauty is irrelevant. IF the truth is ugly, you have to assent to it. You do realize that there is no logical rule of inference that states “Beauty = Truth”, yes?
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See below.My point here is that assent must be based purely on reason. We then believe what is revealed by that authority on faith. That is actually part of Church teaching itself. In fact, blind assent by faith is condemned under Fideism. So your request that we assent to premises such as “We know Transcendent truths because they are beautiful to us” is a Transcendent claim and is therefore asking for blind assent. We do not need to assent to such things.
…The arguments here are only about who or what to assent. So one cannotassent to the Church, the Bible or anything else as an authority because it is beautiful or makes us all warm inside. It has to bebecause there is REASON to think they have authority. The doctrine they teach must be believed because of their authority.
See below.
Now…just to be clear here…WHO IS SPEAKING IN ABSOLUTES?After one has assented, then one can surrender to the beauty of it. But one must make sure that who or what they are assenting to has authority. Otherwise it is an act of deceiving oneself.
That would be you, sir.
Note: Attempting to disprove my generalization–that Beauty attracts first–with one or two examples that don’t fit the generalization–does not disprove the generalization.
However, one example that contradicts your absolute assertion, disproves your absolute assertion.
- the Apostles can not be proven to have assented upon reason;
- St. Augustine reasoned himself in circles, to no avail…but, one beautific vision (with St. Moncia)–which incidentally, he described in the most eloquent language, as essentially, ‘beautiful’–and bam, he was converted;
- 1.1 billion Catholics. Can you honestly assert–with a straight face–that NOT ONE of these Catholics, assented without reason???