Assurance of Salvation (Part II)

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mackbrislawn said:
It is possible also that even pastors may be of the damned. As a corollary of knowing one is saved, is it then the case that one knows that they are of the reprobate?
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From what i have heard from a pastor on the radio, the answer to your question seems to be no.:confused:
this pastor stated on air that, if he was one of the damned , he would march right off to hell singing praises to God.
 
paul_c said:
Paul actually warns about overconfidence;[BIBLEDRB]1 cor 10:1-13[/BIBLEDRB]
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Verse 12 …as in some ALREADY thinking they were more enlightened & with greater wisdom than the Apostles, who sat at feet of Christ. Gnosticism got an early start in 1st Century. They thought only they had God’s truth … the first Illuminati heretics, already challenging Paul.
 
pablope said:
pocohombre;10326464:
Hmm…more confusion, Poco.

So what you are saying, God has two minds, and cannot decide which side to chose?

So, again, which side is correct and which side is not? You said it works…so how does it work, having two sides? God has two sides?

Which side will get one to heaven? One is following heresy and one is not…so, why don’t you clear up the confusion, tell us catholics here, how can we tell which side is the correct side?
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It’s His salvation coin. It’s not a coin toss. When you give someone a coin, do you give him just one side ? There is no confusion to a coin.
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brb3 said:
Verse 12 …as in some ALREADY thinking they were more enlightened & with greater wisdom than the Apostles, who sat at feet of Christ. Gnosticism got an early start in 1st Century. They thought only they had God’s truth … the first Illuminati heretics, already challenging Paul.
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Agree brother .One can definitely be overconfident,but not in God’s ability.One can also be underconfident.Here we are talking about assurance, even keeled steady sound minded assurance. Is it really impossible ?
 
paul_c said:
I was under the assumption that Refromed Christians believe that you were born a goat or a sheep. what is this miscarriage thing? that seems to be a new innovation of thought
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No, was just thinking of the sower and the seed and the 4 “soils” .
 
pocohombre said:
Agree brother .One can definitely be overconfident,but not in God’s ability.One can also be underconfident.Here we are talking about assurance, even keeled steady sound minded assurance. Is it really impossible ?
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You see, St. Paul is thinking in Catholic terms, that you have to cooperate with God’s grace to get to heaven and that we shouldn’t be overconfident that we will persevere to the end.

He is obviously not speaking consistent with reformed theology, because if you were right, there would be no reason for a lack of confidence if your salvation was assured.
 
pocohombre said:
No, was just thinking of the sower and the seed and the 4 “soils” .
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That’s good. That’s the Holy Spirit opening your mind to the the fact that Jesus said that salvation can be lost, even by those who truly believe the message of Christ redeeming power. Sometimes it is lost because the person can’t withstand persecution. Sometimes it is lost because the person gets caught up with worldly matters.

Stop worrying about whether your salvation is assured. Love God and neighbor and leave the judgement to Jesus. He will see into your heart and judge fairly.
 
pocohombre said:
Agree brother .One can definitely be overconfident,but not in God’s ability.One can also be underconfident.Here we are talking about assurance, even keeled steady sound minded assurance. Is it really impossible ?
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Nothing is impossible with God.
But, if one claims SA, [like the Gnostics] they need to back it up with Scripture or Apostolic teachings, …because only You/I believe OUR OWN Private 21st Century Revelations !
 
pablope said:
pocohombre;10326464:
Hmm…more confusion, Poco.

So what you are saying, God has two minds, and cannot decide which side to chose?

So, again, which side is correct and which side is not? You said it works…so how does it work, having two sides? God has two sides?

Which side will get one to heaven? One is following heresy and one is not…so, why don’t you clear up the confusion, tell us catholics here, how can we tell which side is the correct side?
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May I also add the coin is made of a unique metal called foreknowledge.
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brb3 said:
Nothing is impossible with God.
But, if one claims SA, [like the Gnostics] they need to back it up with Scripture or Apostolic teachings, …because only You/I believe OUR OWN Private 21st Century Revelations !
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Amen to the first,and He did answer your second as did OlProf with scriptures and I gave two solid scriptures dealing with assurance.
 
pablope said:
pocohombre;10326464:
Hmm…more confusion, Poco.

So what you are saying, God has two minds, and cannot decide which side to chose?

So, again, which side is correct and which side is not? You said it works…so how does it work, having two sides? God has two sides?

Which side will get one to heaven? One is following heresy and one is not…so, why don’t you clear up the confusion, tell us catholics here, how can we tell which side is the correct side?
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How about this, one side of the coin says, “Choose you this day whom you will serve” and the other , "I have chosen you ".
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paul_c said:
Stop worrying about whether your salvation is assured.
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Again, who is worrying about it. No one on this thread has said they were worried. We are discussing whether it is proper to have such assurance and why. Shall I say stop telling me (not you but this thread in general) that I can’t have assurance ? What is the advantage of that ?
 
pocohombre said:
pablope;10326499:
How about this, one side of the coin says, “Choose you this day whom you will serve” and the other , "I have chosen you ".
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Still can resist the call. One can change from a sheep to a goat. The father is not required to keep you from leaving Jesus’s hands once He draws you there. Jesus chose Judas no?

peace
steve
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paul_c said:
That’s good. That’s the Holy Spirit opening your mind to the the fact that Jesus said that salvation can be lost, even by those who truly believe the message of Christ redeeming power. Sometimes it is lost because the person can’t withstand persecution. Sometimes it is lost because the person gets caught up with worldly matters.
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pocohombre said:
pablope;10326499:
It’s His salvation coin. It’s not a coin toss. When you give someone a coin, do you give him just one side ? There is no confusion to a coin.
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Poco…:confused:

If God will give a coin…both sides will be the same so that it is not confusing.

But it is confusing if it is two sided.

I posted a simpel question…and you keep givine evasive answers…is it really that hard to give an answer?

Let me repost:

So what you are saying, God has two minds, and cannot decide which side to chose?

So, again, which side is correct and which side is not? You said it works…so how does it work, having two sides? God has two sides?

Which side will get one to heaven? One is following heresy and one is not…so, why don’t you clear up the confusion, tell us catholics here, how can we tell which side is the correct side?

As an aside…how many ways are there to get to heaven? You seem to be saying there are many ways?
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pocohombre said:
. [/QUOTE said:
Poco…here is the original question I asked which you have evaded so far also:

I am asking for you to explain your response to paulc:

paulc said: God’s grace is freely given. But not everyone cooperates with grace.

Poco responded: You can’t unless you are saved/born again.

So my question is: How can you start being saved/born again…unless you first accept God’s grace that He freely gives to you to be born again?
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paulc said: God’s love is freely given, but not everyone loves God back

Poco responded: You can’t unless you are saved/born again.

Same question: How can you start being saved/born again…unless you first accept God’s grace/love that He freely gives to you to be born again?

Can you explain the conundrum here?
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paul_c said:
You see, St. Paul is thinking in Catholic terms, that you have to cooperate with God’s grace to get to heaven and that we shouldn’t be overconfident that we will persevere to the end.

He is obviously not speaking consistent with reformed theology, because if you were right, there would be no reason for a lack of confidence if your salvation was assured.
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Actually I am wondering if it is back to whether you are good soil, that is, are you born again ? For though you may be in the midst of much spiritual drink (religious,church centered) ,are you really saved so that the last verse noted may apply ; “God is faithful, and will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you can bear” ?
 
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