At war with the squirrels

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on_the_hill said:
I have neither the time nor the inclination to read all the posts. I’ll just add that I’ve been fending off a mouse jihad in my garage.

Wish I could share more, but in the interest of anonymity, I cannot, because I’ve shared my stories online with friends, under my real name.
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Aw come on…I won’t tell 😃
 
Ok, I did get a reply from a priest I e-mailed to.
That was in German (I am actually writing from Switzerland), but I will try to translate the important parts into English.

He gave 4 points.

1. (here I am not exactly sure if I had told him the story well, what exactly the game was about, but I think I should anyway relate a little something of what he wrote): He speaks of games of cruelty in childhood which do not have to do with a moral attitude. In adults, making a game out of it it is nothing more than regressive behavior. ( I really hope this does not come across as insulting!!!)

2.
there is no official church teaching to the topic of hunting.
BUT! Since the Council of Lateran in 1215 there is a church law that says that priests are not allowed to hunt!

3. Feeling joy at a well-aimed shot and at killing is morally condemnable and does no longer fit with today’s insights about the dignity of animals.

4. There may be a moral legitimation for hunting for reasons like protecting the forest or overpopulation. But there are longterm studies that have shown that such interventions in the end are not effective and aren’t necessary.
 
Kathrin said:
Ok, I did get a reply from a priest I e-mailed to.
That was in German (I am actually writing from Switzerland), but I will try to translate the important parts into English.

He gave 4 points.

1. (here I am not exactly sure if I had told him the story well, what exactly the game was about, but I think I should anyway relate a little something of what he wrote): He speaks of games of cruelty in childhood which do not have to do with a moral attitude. In adults, making a game out of it it is nothing more than regressive behavior. ( I really hope this does not come across as insulting!!!)
Some play softball for recreation and some hunt for recreation. Softball is trying to hit a ball that another does not want you to hit and is a game. Hunting is perusing an animal, over which man has dominion, while the animal tries to escape. It’s recreation and can be thoughht of as a “game”.

2.
there is no official church teaching to the topic of hunting.
BUT! Since the Council of Lateran in 1215 there is a church law that says that priests are not allowed to hunt!
I don’t believe that “law” is in effect in America as I know several priest who hunt. This one you’ll have to prove.
3. Feeling joy at a well-aimed shot and at killing is morally condemnable and does no longer fit with today’s insights about the dignity of animals.
This statement makes no sense. Have you ever been to a beef or pork production factory?
4. There may be a moral legitimation for hunting for reasons like protecting the forest or overpopulation. But there are longterm studies that have shown that such interventions in the end are not effective and aren’t necessary.
**You’ll have to persuade the biologists at the Department of Natural Resources of every state in our union. **
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I’m not insulted in the least but I do have to say this priest is out of touch with all points pertaining to hunting in the United States.
 
Remember this suggestion?
prodigalson2011 said:
Three churches in a small Texas town, one Presbyterian, one Methodist and one Catholic, were having a terrible problem with squirrel infestations. Predictably, they all had different ways of dealing with the problem.

The Presbyterian church called a meeting to decide what to do. After much prayer and consideration they determined that the squirrels were predestined to be there, and they shouldn’t interfere with God’s divine will.

The Methodist church got together and decided that they were not in a position to harm any of God’s creation. So, they humanely trapped the squirrels and set them free a few miles outside of town. Three days later, the squirrels were back.

The Catholic church came up with the best and most effective solution: they baptized the squirrels and registered them as members of the church. Now they only see them on Christmas and Easter!
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Have you laid in your stock of Holy Water and high-power squirt guns for bushy-tailed tree rat baptisms? Now that winter is almost here, you can hit them during a good freezing spell so the water will stick to their fur for a long time. This may make the baptism much more potent.

Didn’t you say that the neighbor on the other side of your fence is a Methodist? You may need to convert him before you can set up a real sqwerl-free perimiter. RCIA classes are still enrolling new members.
 
Nan_S said:
Remember this suggestion?

Have you laid in your stock of Holy Water and high-power squirt guns for bushy-tailed tree rat baptisms? Now that winter is almost here, you can hit them during a good freezing spell so the water will stick to their fur for a long time. This may make the baptism much more potent.
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:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
 
In the back of our church is a HUGE Holy Water fountain. You could easily bathe several small children in it simultaneously. It’s also deep enough to completely immerse Super Soaker water cannons and quickly charge up all the tanks with The Right Stuff.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I see a few squirrels in my yard every day, but I don’t remember seeing any near the church in quite some time.
 
We have myriad grey squirrels in our little mountain town. I’ve always been friendly to them when I’m out walking, even try to talk to them but they quickly run away. However, on the two occasions when I’ve talked to them in Latin, reciting a Latin prayer, they have stopped moving and been very attentive. I am not kidding, there is something about Latin, or my tone of voice, or the fact that it is a prayer.

However please don’t recite Latin prayers to the squirrels if the intent is only to induce temporary motionlessness so that they will be an easier target. That would be a sin, imho!:cool:
 
Kathrin said:
I don’t believe that “law” is in effect in America as I know several priest who hunt. This one >> you’ll have to prove.
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So would that be just for Roman Catholics? As this shows, the Eastern Catholics have the right to keep their traditions and customs:

papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12OMNES.HTM

And I suppose you’ll call Pope Leo XII on a violation, as he had a dog?

Or we can look at this in context, and understand that the “hunting” which is forbidden is not the “hunting” which takes place today. Or not what should be considered hunting. Hunting for food, to defend one’s family and livestock, and, to a limited extent, for useful articles such as bone and fur are good and wholesome. Man is given domain over the earth, and we should care for it and nurture it. We should hunt for food and for defense, and never take what we will not use. I will not hunt what I do not intend to eat, but this is not the place for that debate.

Now, the “hunt” of the middle ages was getting the household together, getting them drunk, on horseback and well armed to take a pack of hounds out to watch them tear some poor creature to bits for nothing more than the joy of the chase. I think we can all agree that this practice is vulgar, and at it’s core a deep wrong. Definately nothing which any good catholic, let alone a priest should be involved.

But sitting in the woods at just before dawn, waiting for the forest to come alive is something which I will always treasure. You can see the wonder of God in nature, and appreciate the many gifts which we are given.

And I have yet to meet a hunter who didn’t praise God after lining up that perfect shot.
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Nan_S said:
In the back of our church is a HUGE Holy Water fountain. You could easily bathe several small children in it simultaneously. It’s also deep enough to completely immerse Super Soaker water cannons and quickly charge up all the tanks with The Right Stuff.

http://images.sscentral.org/makes/cps2000_prototype.jpg

I see a few squirrels in my yard every day, but** I don’t remember seeing any near the church in quite some time**.
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Originally Posted by prodigalson2011
Three churches in a small Texas town, one Presbyterian, one Methodist and one Catholic, were having a terrible problem with squirrel infestations. Predictably, they all had different ways of dealing with the problem.
Click to expand...
The Presbyterian church called a meeting to decide what to do. After much prayer and consideration they determined that the squirrels were predestined to be there, and they shouldn’t interfere with God’s divine will.
Click to expand...
The Methodist church got together and decided that they were not in a position to harm any of God’s creation. So, they humanely trapped the squirrels and set them free a few miles outside of town. Three days later, the squirrels were back.
Click to expand...
The Catholic church came up with the best and most effective solution: they baptized the squirrels and registered them as members of the church. Now they only see them on Christmas and Easter!
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And here I thought this was a joke! Let me know if you see any on Christmas 😉
 
Kathrin said:
2.
there is no official church teaching to the topic of hunting.
BUT! Since the Council of Lateran in 1215 there is a church law that says that priests are not allowed to hunt!.
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That is actually contradicted by several Moral Theology textbooks, including pre-Vat II works.

The first that comes to mind is Jone’s “Moral Theology”, which was the primary Moral Theology textbook from 1920-1960. It was done in a format that allowed priests to keep a copy in the confessional to look up the gravity of sins as they were confessed.

I’ll post the citation tonite, but it specifically allows priests to bear arms for hunting, but not for self defense.
 
Faithdancer said:
We have myriad grey squirrels in our little mountain town. I’ve always been friendly to them when I’m out walking, even try to talk to them but they quickly run away. However, on the two occasions when I’ve talked to them in Latin, reciting a Latin prayer, they have stopped moving and been very attentive. I am not kidding, there is something about Latin, or my tone of voice, or the fact that it is a prayer.

However please don’t recite Latin prayers to the squirrels if the intent is only to induce temporary motionlessness so that they will be an easier target. That would be a sin, imho!:cool:
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That’s like saying “here’s what works for me, but don’t you try it” I think you’ve joined us without knowing it 😃

BTW, I love your signature. Seems a little Freudian.Which side are YOU on?? :rolleyes:
 
TheDoors said:
So would that be just for Roman Catholics? As this shows, the Eastern Catholics have the right to keep their traditions and customs:

papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12OMNES.HTM
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That I really do not know.
I have not studied chirch history and I am not sure how this works, which Councils still count and for whom… maybe htis is all too complicated for the layperson to find out. The good thing is that we can talk to and ask those who know more, and that is what I did. 🙂

I also do not know the exact nature of the relationship between eastern and Western catholics, and which rules count for who… The document you give a link to is very long, maybe it would be good to say which paragraph is of matter for this 😉 (as I also did for my link, so you all who are interested didn’t ave to search for the hunting passage) ;)))

(Anyway all of this is getign a little much now I must admit, but this has more personal reasons that I have to be careful don’t cause stress for me, so I apologize)
TheDoors said:
And I suppose you’ll call Pope Leo XII on a violation, as he had a dog?
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It says they are not allowed to have dogs or birds FOR FOWLING (I assume his counts for the birds as well as the dogs?. I made sure to read that right as I love dogs :).
TheDoors said:
Now, the “hunt” of the middle ages was getting the household together, getting them drunk, on horseback and well armed to take a pack of hounds out to watch them tear some poor creature to bits for nothing more than the joy of the chase.
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You think that is why this hunting thing is mentioned under the heading of gluttony and drunkenness? I was wondering about that,

On the other hand, couldn’t it also be that it was decided that something related to bloodshed (also a topic in another paragraph) is not suitable for a priest? Wasn’t it anyway that people were only allowed to eat meat again after Noah’s arch, because of their weakness?
TheDoors said:
And I have yet to meet a hunter who didn’t praise God after lining up that perfect shot.
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The priest I first asked, the one who gave me the name of the oher one, mentioned also that hunters often would put a twig in the mouth of the deer when it was dead… also a kind of thank you or sign of honor?

OK, and now this is also important, after that paragraph there is a little number [4], and if you scroll down to the end you will see that this means that the part on hunting was omitted in some other document(s), it seems they were later documents. But I have no idea whether that means they don’t “count” anynmore. And I do have trust in the pries who mailed me, especially as I have been told he knows a lot about these kinds of issues.

Kathrin
 
By the way; squirrels have taken apples from under my tent when I have been camping, even though I had put them in a plastic bag … and even taken them up on the tree(s), and one time an apple fell from the tree back down exatly on my leg and it did hurt!!!
But still I think they’re cute 🙂 🙂 🙂
 
shipwrkd said:
We live in a suburban neighborhood with many beautiful oak trees and in those trees, many annoying and destructive squirrels. Used to think they were cute and enjoyed playing games with them and my bird feeders.Then they started to cause damage. Chewed their way into the attic and nested, damaged screens by crawling on them, gnawed the siding etc. My devout Catholic wife counted 16 of them in our 75 X 100 foot front yard a few years ago and for my birthday a couple weeks later, I received a pellet gun and war was declared. It’s not a just war because I have no chance of winning it. My neighbor and I have turned this into a competition in which the rules of engagement state we can’t shoot anything not in our own yard, so if one makes it to the fence, it belongs to him. He’s not Catholic, but I’m a better shot and together, we’re over two hundred confirmed kills. Do I need to confess this???
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:D:D

That is VERY amusing. I have done that before myself to chase possums away, and it’s quite effective.

I don’t think there is any moral issue with killing the squirrels, as they are destroying your property, but there may or may not be a legal issue (as others have mentioned) so I’m sure you’ll check on that.

Happy shooting! :yeah_me:
 
Kathrin said:
By the way; squirrels have taken apples from under my tent when I have been camping, even though I had put them in a plastic bag …
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The mice in my garage were eating from a heavy plastic bag of bird seed. The top of the bag was open, yet they chewed a hole in it, about an inch below the opening. :confused:
 
TheDoors said:
But sitting in the woods at just before dawn, waiting for the forest to come alive is something which I will always treasure. You can see the wonder of God in nature, and appreciate the many gifts which we are given.
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But maybe you could try it just ONCE and do all that, wait for nature to become alive, watch the wonders of God… but don’t take the gun. And on the way back home through the wonderful forest and fields think about how wonderful it is that there is now one animal out there that is still alive and part of this because YOU didn’t shoot it. Isn’t that even better???
 
Kathrin said:
But maybe you could try it just ONCE and do all that, wait for nature to become alive, watch the wonders of God… but don’t take the gun. And on the way back home through the wonderful forest and fields think about how wonderful it is that there is now one animal out there that is still alive and part of this because YOU didn’t shoot it. Isn’t that even better???
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Na, much more fun to know that your aim was good.
 
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