At what point do you let go and file for divorce?

[jmcrae]

She has been very kind to me. She is angry/disappointed in him as well - wasn’t going to let him move home (40 miles from us) but I **ASKED **her to allow it. We can not afford “rent/apartment” for him and I needed him gone. Hence, the reason he comes to my house to visit with kids. He cant take them to GMa’s on school nights.

Sorry, WHAT?

He visits with the kids inside the house???

I am a child of divorced parents, and believe me, my father has not stepped foot in my mother’s house since he packed his bag and left. He didn’t even come inside when he came to get the rest of his clothes and stuff. He waited outside while my mother brought out his packed suitcases and boxes.

(There’s a story about that, that I’m not allowed to tell until they’re both dead and gone. It’s enough to say that my Mom can be just as mean as my Dad, though, and she has an interesting sense of humour. )

 

[BMB]

Sorry, WHAT?

He visits with the kids inside the house???

I am at a loss as to other options. He can’t afford his own place, What kind of visit would it be if he just took them to dinner? No money to waste on eating out all the time. My counselor is flabbergasted that I allow this too… but I feel they need to see him / don’t want them to feel totally abandoned. He left ME but loves his children.

So… I usually leave the house to visit my sister, run errands, etc. Sometimes I go to my room and read (a luxery) for me while he spends time with them (the youngest really - as the older ones are into their own lives.)

Perhaps I AM giving the **wrong message **to the kids by letting him “in.”

A better solution/suggestions?

He didn’t even come inside when he came to get the rest of his clothes and stuff. He waited outside while my mother brought out his packed suitcases and boxes. (There’s a story about that, that I’m not allowed to tell until they’re both dead and gone. It’s enough to say that my Mom can be just as mean as my Dad, though, and she has an interesting sense of humour. )

OK, now you’ve got me REALLY interested. Would I benefit from some CATHARTIC temper-tantrum? It’s an idea!

 

[jmcrae]

I am at a loss as to other options. He can’t afford his own place,

Surely, that is his problem.

What kind of visit would it be if he just took them to dinner? No money to waste on eating out all the time. My counselor is flabbergasted that I allow this too… but I feel they need to see him / don’t want them to feel totally abandoned. He left ME but loves his children.

So… I usually leave the house to visit my sister, run errands, etc.

And he is alone in your house, in the middle of divorce proceedings - he could plant illegal drugs to make you look like a bad mother; he could go through your papers to see what you are working on with your lawyer; he could put rat poison in the sugar bowl - he could really, really mess up your life in all kinds of ways.

A better solution/suggestions?

He takes them to his place, and entertains them there. Or out some place, or not at all.

He should not be in your house. Not even with you there, but certainly not with you away.

Sorry to sound like such a crank, but my goodness, you really do need to look out for your own interests, here!

In our case, we visited my Dad every second weekend, from Friday evening to Monday morning. When we were younger, he’d pick us up from Mom’s on Friday evening in time to give us dinner, and then drop us off at school on Monday mornings, with a packed lunch. When we got older, we took the bus to his place on Friday evenings (or else to his office, if he was working late), and then he’d drop us off at school on Monday mornings, again, with a packed lunch. He never had any contact, other than by telephone, with my mother.

After we reached the age of 16, we got keys to his place, and then we pretty much came and went between his place and Mom’s place - as long as they both knew where we were, they were fine with it, although (and even today they still) would get cranky if it seemed like we were honouring one parent with more of our time than the other.

We still have the Christmas battle, every year - whose turn is it to open presents with us, whose turn is it to have Christmas dinner with us, and all that.

Small potatoes in the larger scheme of things, though. I love them both, as if they were my own children.

 

[jmcrae]

OK, now you’ve got me REALLY interested. Would I benefit from some CATHARTIC temper-tantrum? It’s an idea!

OH, okay. She packed her wedding dress in with his underwear.

(But you never heard that from me. I’m not even supposed to know.)

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Do you all think these posts should be required reading for Pre-Cana classes?

 

[BMB]

OH, okay. She packed her wedding dress in with his underwear.

(But you never heard that from me. I’m not even supposed to know.)

Secret is safe with me… I swear! (Me and and about 1,000 other posters!)
You’ve made me laugh and I love you for that.

Well, as far as the visitation goes, I’m beginning to see my situation as others see it. Others who aren’t emotionally invested. Others who haven’t been desperate to save what I hoped & prayed WAS saveable.

A reasonable person might question if “letting him in unsupervised” is a wise choice. I believe the further I remove myself from this mess emotionally, the more reasonable I am/will become.

I get the point. His mess, his problems, his turn to figure out what he has to do. You did kinda scare me with the sugar bowl comment though!

I was smart enough to get a safety deposit box and new safe for my important documents and “proof”. Just don’t want to believe he would try to hurt me more… Reality bites.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

BMB, surely the cheater has a good imagination and can figure out where to have fun when he’s not at your house. After all, he’s been doing it for years.

Let him now use 1/2 the creativeness finding places to take the kids to be with them during his time with them.

He can take them to the mall and walk around, to a movie, to the park, ride around, talk.

He can take them to the school and play baseball or basketball at the courts.

If a restaurant is too expensive, he can pack a dinner for them and eat it in his car.

Since he seems to prefer having his fun outside the home, you need to cater to his desire to have all his fun outside your front door.

Be a sport, why don’t ya!

I’m sure he’ll find a way. He always has.

As for his mother, I think she created a little narcissist. Seriously, look up narcissistic personality disorder. Might give you a clue what you’re really dealing with.

He sounds like he thinks he’s just so special.

I repeat my warning. Do NOT let him in your house. jmcrae pointed out the reasons well.

Yes, Cracker Mom, but the starry eyed couples wouldn’t really understand that this might apply to THEM. After all, aren’t they so in love it will never end?

 

[BMB]

We still have the Christmas battle, every year - whose turn is it to open presents with us, whose turn is it to have Christmas dinner with us, and all that.

AUGH! So NOT looking forward to drama all my life.

Small potatoes in the larger scheme of things, though. I love them both, as if they were my own children.

Charitible and gracious!

 

[BMB]

Let him now use 1/2 the creativeness finding places to take the kids to be with them during his time with them.

He can take them to the mall and walk around, to a movie, to the park, ride around, talk.

He can take them to the school and play baseball or basketball at the courts.

If a restaurant is too expensive, he can pack a dinner for them and eat it in his car.

Great suggestions. I will share these with him… Why, I will even ask the children to add their suggestions to the list.

As for his mother, I think she created a little narcissist. Seriously, look up narcissistic personality disorder. Might give you a clue what you’re really dealing with.

Going to look online re Narcissistic PD and ask my counselor what she knows about the disorder. Are they cureable? Probably not since there is nothing wrong with THEM, right? Was your ex this type of person?

 

[BMB]

Seriously, look up narcissistic personality disorder. Might give you a clue what you’re really dealing with.

 

[Lerin]

I have some professional psychologists in the family… they pegged my ex as a Sociopath. I remember the first time I read the description, I almost was physically ill by the end of the article because it was so dead on! Thank goodness that he is permanently out of our lives, as his rights were permanently terminated and my husband has adopted my daughter.

Isn’t it scary… we can be so blind for so long, and when the scales fall off of our eyes, to really SEE who we’ve been living with is a punch in the gut. But by identifying behaviors that these men have in common, it makes it easier to stay detached and not get sucked into the manipulations.

I’m so glad you found support on CAF. I think getting support and friends who genuinely care and have been through it can be most helpful in navigating these extremely painful circumstances. And I know that I’m praying for you… I don’t doubt everyone else is too!!!

 

[Liberanosamalo]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=249609&highlight=narcissist

BMB, make yourself a cup of coffee and pull up a chair and read a long-ago conversation that may help you.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

BMB, I’m also going to suggest something that might make you view the relationship with the concubine differently. (I call her that because what else do you call it?)

Here’s my guess:

If indeed the guy has NPD, he only wants what he can’t have. Once he has it, it’s no longer a challenge. The MARRIED woman at work was a challenge. He decided he was better than that woman’s husband and took up with her. After carefully determining through work conversations what weaknesses she had in the marriage. They went out for conversations and coffee. They talked at the desk. They were “just friends.” He was oh, so understanding (in a way you probably don’t remember it was so long ago he treated you that way.)

Eventually he went in for the kill. He helped her to ratchet the relationship up a notch. Neither of them wanted to divorce and marry each other. For whatever reasons. He has probably lied to her about you and told her all sorts of stories about why he has to stay with you.

But once the divorce goes through, he won’t want her anymore. Once she is available, she won’t be adventurous forbidden fruit. And he’ll dump her. I would bet money. Because then she becomes an emotional responsibility. He doesn’t want that. She lost her husband because of him. She will end up hating him too.

About the same time he will see you as unattainable. And start making comments about how good you look. Don’t fall for it.

He knows what strings to pull.

And put in the divorce that the kids can’t be in his house overnight if he isn’t there, or if he has an unmarried unrelated person of the opposite sex there.

That way your kids don’t have to watch him entertain girlfriends when they’re with him.

Good luck.

 

[just_me_1]

I am so sorry to hear your troubles. I apologise that I didn’t read very many replies so I may be redundant here. this SAME thing happened to my girlfriend, she and her husband were married for 5 years, 2 kids, had been together 7 years, he couldn’t hold down a job so he joined the army. He ended up meeting some army floozie right out of bootcamp and started cheating on his wife, who at the time, still lived back home, 2000 miles away. she found out, they fought, then she forgave him, so to speak, when he promised her they were finished. (coincidentally, this army chick was engaged and “enjoying the company” of several other soldiers and her sergant!!! yuck yuck yuck!!!

so to make a long story short, my friend packed up the kids and moved down to base only to catch them in the act again! and he kept bringing her around the kids after she told him not to, cops got involved, all very ugly and would make great springer material. She since is seperated and moved home and has met a great guy going through a similar situation… She’s baptist and doesn’t have the same marriage views as we do. but I can about guarantee the SOB she was married to (I never did like him) had screwed up enough prior to the marriage that she could be anulled.

She’s still very hurt and angry and that won’t change for a while, but life did go on. she has her family and friends and this new boyfriend (who treats her like a queen, unlike that last jerk!), and of course her kids… she went from stay at home to working almost full time and is getting back on her feet. I’m so proud of how independent she has become!

I don’t know how relative this is other than to say it’s common, you’re not alone, and there are other BETTER fish out there. I would try for an anullment I think. It’s no good to be alone and you didn’t deserve that or sign up for it when you said I do. It would be different if he was willing to change and NOT see that b**ch anymore but…

As for me, I’m married to an ex marine, and understand the military life to some degree. I’m just thankful he got out and we’re away from base! If it’s not the army whores themselves (sorry but very few seem to be morally sound), it’s the leeches that hang out off base and try to snag them a soldier and some free housing and health care…

Good luck with whatever you decide, you’re in our prayers!

 

[just_me_1]

oh, just for spite, you can always call his commanding officer (not sure who exactly, I will ask DH later) and tell him your HUSBAND was with another woman (and who she is too) and they will both get in a boatload of trouble. It’s as close to revenge as you might get!

 

[Godfollower]

oh, just for spite, you can always call his commanding officer (not sure who exactly, I will ask DH later) and tell him your HUSBAND was with another woman (and who she is too) and they will both get in a boatload of trouble. It’s as close to revenge as you might get!

But, ten years from now, you’ll feel better about yourself if you don’t.

 

[dulcissima]

But, ten years from now, you’ll feel better about yourself if you don’t.

I agree.

 

[BMB]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=249609&highlight=narcissist

BMB, make yourself a cup of coffee and pull up a chair and read a long-ago conversation that may help you.

Wow. Just finished the thread above. I don’t know how to react. I am NOT crazy, I am NOT without value… Not sure if I feel better or not.

Oh my God… how much has this man taken from me? Truly just about every bit of confidence and emotional strength. If he is truly NPD (sooooo much validation in the posts) I fear the posibility of further manipulation when I show that I am building self esteem! Will he react irrationally when I tell him to leave his key and take the kids out to “visit?”

The most stiking posts described his absolute change of personality immediately following our wedding. Like a stranger really. It felt weird immediately… not natural at all. He was very kind, loving, affectionate when we dated… but BOOM, the honeymoon was … uncomfortable for lack of a better word. I expected lovey dovey… he was instantly remote. Of course, I shook it off and got to the business of starting our married life.

I got pregnant IMMEDIATELY ( thank God for my baby blessing!) and remember not understanding why he was so impatient with me when I was naseaus. I didn’t feel like going out… he got irritated. He got orders to deploy to Iraq but was angry that I didn’t feel well enough to go out and buy his supplies. “Aren’t you going to go to the store and buy the stuff from my supply list?” - Excuse me? I’m throwing up here, tired and pregnant… but of course, I went.

Over the years I took it all upon myself. He simply had to work. He’s never been physically abusive, but emotionally abusive - oh yea.

THe lightbulb is ON. I have been manipulated by the master charmer for 18 years. Might have been worth it if he had been satisfied with charming me exclusively.

I’m not qualified to diagnose NPD… but I can recognize emotional abuse thanks to my “on-line angels.” You have given me a safe place to think and vent and consider possibilities. Forever grateful.

 

[BMB]

Isn’t it scary… we can be so blind for so long, and when the scales fall off of our eyes, to really SEE who we’ve been living with is a punch in the gut. But by identifying behaviors that these men have in common, it makes it easier to stay detached and not get sucked into the manipulations.

Yes, horrifyingly scary. Like living with the enemy. And EVERYONE believes he’s a great guy because I made it so… I covered up, made excuses for bad behavior and selfishness. “No need to get presents for me. Dont worry about my birthday. No, I don’t mind if you go on that trip without me…” I, at very least, allowed the beast to consume all that made me me.

Marriage to a Sociopath must have been absolutely terrifying. I am so thankful that you have been able to erase him from your and your daughters life completely. Scary stuff when you trust, esp. when you trust the wrong guy. Seems to me I’ve spent 18 years convincing myself he wasn’t any different from any other husband. All I need do is look around the loving, affectionate touches and converstations REAL marriage partners display. I’ve been duped into a poor, poor imitation.

 

[BMB]

But, ten years from now, you’ll feel better about yourself if you don’t.

I don’t plan on giving him any ammunition against me. He’s surely lied enough about me… no need to give him something real to relay.