At what point does cafeteria Catholicism become material Protestantism?

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Lepanto said:
At what point does cafeteria Catholicism become material Protestantism?

How many or which doctrinal and/or binding disciplinary matters can a self-professed Catholic knowingly and willingly disregard before sinking into de facto Protestantism?

Where is the line drawn? :confused:
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To deny ONE dogma of the Church makes one a heretic.

To be a heretic is to be a protestant, as the authority to proclaim dogmas as truth is what one is protesting against in being protestant.

The line is “one”.
 
I would like to hear the answer too. Also, if Protestantism is so elevated, who so many elevated sects. You would think one would be enough if they got it right.
Deacon Ed B
 
MarcoPolo said:
I’d like to hear the answer to Tomster’s question too.
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It’s not a matter of sects. It’s just that if one believes the Catholic church became apostatized because of non scriptural doctrine and dogma it can be viewed as a step up to leave the RCC behind and find salvation in a different denomination.

But if you insist on names of denominations I would offer that the Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, etc are reasonable alternatives.

Of course this assumes that one really believes that the RCC is not valid in her teachings, which is what I believe.

I had an interesting conversation today with two people who call themselves Catholics. They both said they don’t accept all the teachings of the RCC. I told them that if they refuse to believe even one dogma of the RCC they can’t be Catholic. I got slammed pretty hard and I just left it at that. They both said that the RCC is changing a lot. I told them that as far as dogma is concerned that isn’t true, but they didn’t agree with me at all.

I don’t want to beat on Catholics, but I hear that sort of reasoning a lot. These people don’t believe a whole bunch of what the RCC teaches but they still go to Mass and receive the Eucharist. I know they are wrong, but they are convinced what they are doinbg is just fine. They are actually Protestants but don’t understand that.

The reason is that the teachings of the RCC is anachronistic. These are very good people who just do not believe that the RCC could teach things they don’t accept at all, in any way. There are a lot of people like them too.

So it makes a lot more sense to get honest and look for a denomination closer to what one really believes instead of making a mockery of Roman Catholic teachings by going through the motions even though one does not believe that the RCC is valid.

Maybe that didn’t make much sense, but I think it does.
 
mark_a said:
In which way(s)?
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Well, it’s a long list. Start with birth control. Celibacy for priests. Papal infallibility. Purgatory. Ordination of women. The one true church. In no particular order.
 
Namesake said:
Well, it’s a long list. Start with birth control. Celibacy for priests. Papal infallibility. Purgatory. Ordination of women. The one true church. In no particular order.
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Thanks.

I see birth control leads the list. You hit the nail on the head.

The rest of the items are the usual “disagreements” cafeteria Catholics make to help justify their dissatisfaction with reason #1.

I’m with you though, I can’t understand why these people stay in the Church. And no, I don’t WANT them to leave.
 
Namesake said:
Lots of cafeteria Catholics that I know don’t believe in transubstantiation, and many that I know don’t respect the authority of Rome.

And that’s just fine with me because they are very good people. If they weren’t Catholic and instead were Jewish they would be assured of heaven. But the Roman Church insists on excluding them.

I go along with the Jews. They really do accept most everyone even if they aren’t Jewish.
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So the doctrine of sunstantiation doesn’t matter? In any case. many 'good"people do things you wouldn’t approve of if you knew about them, things that are objectively evil.
 
RobbyS said:
So the doctrine of sunstantiation doesn’t matter? In any case. many 'good"people do things you wouldn’t approve of if you knew about them, things that are objectively evil.
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For me and a whole lot of people, Catholics included, do not believe that transubstantiation matters at all.

And, I can’t imagine being so cynical that I think the good people I know are doing evil things.
 
Namesake said:
There was no particular order. The first one they talked about was celibacy. They both think it is a ridiculous thing.
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Priestly celebacy is a Roman discipline, not a universally Catholic one. Its not doctrine like the rest.

Sounds like you know more about Catholicism than your Catholic friends.

Keep up the good work for us!!
 
Namesake said:
It’s not a matter of sects. It’s just that if one believes the Catholic church became apostatized because of non scriptural doctrine and dogma it can be viewed as a step up to leave the RCC behind and find salvation in a different denomination.

But if you insist on names of denominations I would offer that the Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, etc are reasonable alternatives.

Of course this assumes that one really believes that the RCC is not valid in her teachings, which is what I believe.

I had an interesting conversation today with two people who call themselves Catholics. They both said they don’t accept all the teachings of the RCC. I told them that if they refuse to believe even one dogma of the RCC they can’t be Catholic. I got slammed pretty hard and I just left it at that. They both said that the RCC is changing a lot. I told them that as far as dogma is concerned that isn’t true, but they didn’t agree with me at all.

I don’t want to beat on Catholics, but I hear that sort of reasoning a lot. These people don’t believe a whole bunch of what the RCC teaches but they still go to Mass and receive the Eucharist. I know they are wrong, but they are convinced what they are doinbg is just fine. They are actually Protestants but don’t understand that.

The reason is that the teachings of the RCC is anachronistic. These are very good people who just do not believe that the RCC could teach things they don’t accept at all, in any way. There are a lot of people like them too.

So it makes a lot more sense to get honest and look for a denomination closer to what one really believes instead of making a mockery of Roman Catholic teachings by going through the motions even though one does not believe that the RCC is valid.

Maybe that didn’t make much sense, but I think it does.
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Couple points.
  1. If we are to look “for a denomination closer to what one really believes” we should then include Catholicism as an option, no? Therefore no one denomination is elevated over another? Yet you have asserted that those who have chosen the Catholic denomination are less elevated.
  2. To suggest Lutheranism, Methodists, Episcopalians, etc. as “reasonable alternatives” bears no resemblance to what Christ established. He was clear about one Church. Not “reasonable alternatives.”
  3. If ever there was evidence of the devil sifting Christians “like wheat”, why shouldn’t I look first to post-Reformation Christianity?
  4. And I do not understand the purpose of your story about the 2 Catholics, but I don’t doubt it for a second! 🙂
 
Same old, same old with Protestant theology-by-subtraction.

Protestants are simply cafetaria Catholics who decide to appoint themselves Head Chef.

You’ll notice that they emphasize what THEY believe, not Truth.

The chief difference between Protestants and Catholics is not only respect for authority, but respect for Truth.
 
😃
Namesake said:
Well, it’s a long list. Start with birth control. Celibacy for priests. Papal infallibility. Purgatory. Ordination of women. The one true church. In no particular order.
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Birth Control
Contraception – Why Not?

Celibacy and the Priesthood

Papal Infallibility

Purgatory
The Roots of Purgatory

Ordination of Women

The One True Church

Hope this helps. 😃

Looks like Cling2Cross hasn’t been back… it’s a shame; I was really hoping he’d answer the questions I asked in my last post.
 
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