Atheism: The Stars Are On Our Side

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The Stars Are On Our Side

Better To Be On The Side Of The Angels !:angel1:
 
tonyrey said:
So your main criterion of importance is frequency of occurrence?
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My stand was that using these kind of arguments is meaningless toward either side.

Importance is obviously relative to the person. So even if he is the only human in all existence, how important he is wouldn’t change from the idea of him being only one out of trillions of humans and species.
 
James_S_Saint said:
My stand was that using these kind of arguments is meaningless toward either side.
Importance is obviously relative to the person. So even if he is the only human in all existence, how important he is wouldn’t change from the idea of him being only one out of trillions of humans and species.
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Is importance relative only to the individual? Or is it ever relative to everyone?
 
MindOverMatter said:
This does not tell me that the universe wouldn’t be this way if God didn’t exist. You made a giant leap from identifying that there is a natural order with rules and principles to making those principles or rules a universal principle of reality. Everybody agrees that there is a natural order, but why do you think that the universes entire existence is explainable by naturalist principles? Why do you think that natural events are the cause of existence in its entirety?
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I think that everything is explainable by naturalist principles because it looks that way to me. To me, humans look like they are intelligent, social apes, the sun looks like a giant ball of gas undergoing nuclear fusion, and so on.

Also, I don’t see any empirical evidence of a God.
 
Shredderbeam said:
I think that everything is explainable by naturalist principles because it looks that way to me. To me, humans look like they are intelligent, social apes, the sun looks like a giant ball of gas undergoing nuclear fusion, and so on.

Also, I don’t see any empirical evidence of a God.
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The question one has to ask is - do I see everything there is?
 
buffalo said:
The question one has to ask is - do I see everything there is?
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Do you make judgments off of the actions of people you’ve never met in Russia? It’s not a question of whether you see everything, it’s a question of how to make sense of what you *do *see.
 
buffalo said:
The question one has to ask is - do I see everything there is?
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Presumably no, and neither do I - but I cannot find any other rational basis for belief other than going by what I can see.
 
liquidpele said:
Do you make judgments off of the actions of people you’ve never met in Russia? It’s not a question of whether you see everything, it’s a question of how to make sense of what you *do *see.
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If you live in a box without windows how do you know there is light outside the box?

So the best minds speculate about what they observe with. They make theories. They prove there is no light. All the successive generations are convinced of darkness and mock any dissent. To them they make absolute sense of what they see. It becomes like a religion.

Then one day the lid is blown off the top of the box and they too are blown away for in the corner of the box sits a book covered with dust no one could read in the darkness. The very first pages reveal that there is light. If only they would have read the book illuminated by God.
 
buffalo said:
If you live in a box without windows how do you know there is light outside the box?

So the best minds speculate about what they observe with. They make theories. They prove there is no light. All the successive generations are convinced of darkness and mock any dissent. To them they make absolute sense of what they see. It becomes like a religion.

Then one day the lid is blown off the top of the box and they too are blown away for in the corner of the box sits a book covered with dust no one could read in the darkness. The very first pages reveal that there is light. If only they would have read the book illuminated by God.
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These box people would be entirely rational to believe that there was no light. The fact that light actually exists didn’t matter because it had no effect on them, they have never experienced it. My point is that, given explanation that is beyond your experience or understanding, how can you determine a valid explanation from madness?

Using your box analogy, what is in the box?
 
Charles_Darwin said:
I was going to answer point by point but i don’t even need to… God of the gaps anyone haha :D:D:D
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i asked you where you thought the universe came from. where do you see a G-d of the Gaps argument?

you wouldnt just be dodging the arguments again, now would you?
 
buffalo said:
There will always be at least one gap or you would be god. Face it.
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its his pattern, when he is cornered, instead of facing the irrationality of his position, he dodges or leaves a thread to protect his cherished belief. he doesnt seem interested in the truth so much protecting his cherished belief at all costs.
 
Shredderbeam said:
I think that everything is explainable by naturalist principles because it looks that way to me. To me, humans look like they are intelligent, social apes, the sun looks like a giant ball of gas undergoing nuclear fusion, and so on.

Also, I don’t see any empirical evidence of a God.
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I want you to show me why you think that naturalist “principles” represents what the world would be like if God didn’t exist. How did you get that information? You are assuming that the world would appear in particular fashion if God had created it, as if to say that if there was a God there would not be a “natural order” that functions according to various principles, evolving over a period of time. This is a straw-man of what it means for God to create something.You are implying that physical events necessitates the idea that natural events explains “existence” in its entirety. You haven’t shown me how that can be the case or how you have come to knowledge of it.
 
liquidpele said:
These box people would be entirely rational to believe that there was no light. The fact that light actually exists didn’t matter because it had no effect on them, they have never experienced it. My point is that, given explanation that is beyond your experience or understanding, how can you determine a valid explanation from madness?

Using your box analogy, what is in the box?
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Correct, by themselves they could not know anything else. That is our current situation. We can only know so much. However, we have Revelation to gives us more. We should heed it.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Answer = We don’t know. That includes you…

How is that dodging the question??
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aren’t you presuming a lot about what other people know??

You appear to think that if the preachers for Socialist Secularism haven’t declared that Science has decided on something, then no one knows.
 
liquidpele said:
Using your box analogy, what is in the box?
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Interesting video.

It supposes that we start off with no advance knowledge.

The other problem with the video is that we are looking into the box. In reality we are in the box trying to look out. So the countless possibilities of what exists outside the box cannot be eliminated by the restraints of the box. In fact the multi-verse theory posits an infinite amount of possibilities.

One other - on the inside wall there is writing that tells us of things outside the box.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Answer = We don’t know. That includes you…
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But, by the fact that your an atheist, are you not assuming that everything came from physical principles; that the universe came from physics? Am i not correct? If so, you might want to explain how thats possible logically speaking.
 
buffalo said:
One other - on the inside wall there is writing that tells us of things outside the box.
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Though I agree, don’t forget that those writings were still put there by someone inside the box. :o
 
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