Atheism

  • Thread starter Thread starter atheist
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
JimO:
Thanks for the explanation and I am sorry for not turning the other cheek. We do truly share the same types of frustrations. Mine have originated in participating in several threads were faith-based discussions are going along, only to have someone claiming to be an atheist “charge” in with the same tired arguments, antagonize people and derail the original discussion. It’s just plain discourteous.

Again, sorry for the harsh response.
Click to expand...
Not a problem, we are just trying to show people what we believe to be the holes in their arguments. That’s what ‘debate’ is all about.🙂
 
“…the Way to the Dwelling of Light” by Brother Guy Consolmagno, S.J., Astronomer, Vatican Observatory.

(title from the book of Job)

Subtitle, How Physics Illumines Creation

Chapter 2, How using mathematics to explain reality is like using words to describe God

Available from Amazon

It delights me to know that there are priests and brothers who are also astronomers and astrophysicists and biologists and . . .

JMJ Jay
 
40.png
GordonBOPS:
Squirt - Doesn’t sound like you have any answers then - what did humans evolve from then… a tree? A dolphin?
Click to expand...
Monkeys and humans decended from a comon ancestor.
 
40.png
retina_md:
Do any of the atheist posting ever have doubt about their belief that God does not exist?
Click to expand...
All people have doubts. If I have doubts about something I investigate it and find out more.
 
Assuming they descended.

Atheist -

[33](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/33.htm’)😉 The human person: with his openness to truth and beauty, his sense of moral goodness, his freedom and the voice of his conscience, with his longings for the infinite and for happiness, man questions himself about God’s existence. In all this he discerns signs of his spiritual soul. The soul, the “seed of eternity we bear in ourselves, irreducible to the merely material”,9 can have its origin only in God.

[34](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/34.htm’)😉 The world, and man, attest that they contain within themselves neither their first principle nor their final end, but rather that they participate in Being itself, which alone is without origin or end. Thus, in different ways, man can come to know that there exists a reality which is the **first cause **and final end of all things, a reality "that everyone calls God".10

[35](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/35.htm’)😉 Man’s faculties make him capable of coming to a knowledge of the existence of a personal God. But for man to be able to enter into real intimacy with him, God willed both to reveal himself to man and to give him the grace of being able to welcome this revelation in faith. The proofs of God’s existence, however, can predispose one to faith and help one to see that faith is not opposed to reason.

III. THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD ACCORDING TO THE CHURCH

[36](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/36.htm’)😉 “Our holy mother, the Church, holds and teaches that God, the first principle and last end of all things, **can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason.”**11 Without this capacity, man would not be able to welcome God’s revelation. Man has this capacity because he is created “in the image of God”.12
 
[37](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/37.htm’)😉 In the historical conditions in which he finds himself, however, man experiences many difficulties in coming to know God by the light of reason alone:

Though human reason is, strictly speaking, truly capable by its own natural power and light of attaining to a true and certain knowledge of the one personal God, who watches over and controls the world by his providence, and of the natural law written in our hearts by the Creator; yet there are many obstacles which prevent reason from the effective and fruitful use of this inborn faculty. For the truths that concern the relations between God and man wholly transcend the visible order of things, and, if they are translated into human action and influence it, they call for self-surrender and abnegation. The human mind, in its turn, is hampered in the attaining of such truths, not only by the impact of the senses and the imagination, but also by disordered appetites which are the consequences of original sin. So it happens that men in such matters easily persuade themselves that what they would not like to be true is false or at least doubtful.13
[38](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/38.htm’)😉 This is why man stands in need of being enlightened by God’s revelation, not only about those things that exceed his understanding, but also “about those religious and moral truths which of themselves are not beyond the grasp of human reason, so that even in the present condition of the human race, they can be known by all men with ease,** with firm certainty and with no admixture of error”. 14**
 
40.png
Booger:
I guess not, but I always try to be open minded to new ideas. I always double check (triple, quadruple etc.) my own understanding of things to make sure that my decisions are informed.
Click to expand...
Same here.
 
40.png
buffalo:
Atheist - something I learned awhile ago - walk outside and show yourself anything that was created by man.
Click to expand...
I assume you meant to fine tune this more, because I can go outside right now and see dozens and dozens of manmade things like buildings and cars,etc…
 
40.png
Monarchy:
I assume you meant to fine tune this more, because I can go outside right now and see dozens and dozens of manmade things like buildings and cars,etc…
Click to expand...
No need to fine tune - created (from nothing) is the key word.
 
40.png
JimO:
No, I have not examined all the information about every single religion, but I have examined a lot, enough to convince me that my own path is right for me. However, as I stated, someone who is 18 has hardly had the time to examine sufficient information to make an informed judgement about any religion. I already acknowledged that this was a presumption that assumed Atheist is a teenager with an average intellect and average interest in philosophy and, I stated that I could be wrong about this. If this is the positive assertion you are referring to, then you are not correct in dismissing it, simply because it was a direct response to Atheist’s request for (name removed by moderator)ut, not the statement of a theory to be tested.

If you and I were debating the evidence of a particular religion, I would grant your dismissal, but you simply jumped into the middle of a thread where individuals were relating their own experiences in response to a request for that (name removed by moderator)ut. Instead of providing your own experience, such as how long you have been an atheist (another presumption on my part, sorry) and why you hold to that, you come in swinging. Forgive me for not turning the other cheek, I’m still a work in progress.

Like I said, if you want a confrontation on the merits of a given belief system, start a thread, or jump in to one of the others that is raging at the moment. Otherwise, let us theists answer Atheist’s question directed to us.
Click to expand...
Sorry,

I am a 31 year old atheist and have been most of my life. I have prayed heart felt prayers and felt nothing but stupid. I do not believe that the bible is infalible, as it was written by man. My main problem with Xianity is the concept of hell. I cannot make the logical dissconnect needed for me to believe that a ‘loving god’ would be willing to throw me in to a burning torture pit for eternity, simply for not seeing enough evidence for his existance. I do not deny god exists, as that is illogical. I am simply without God Belief.
 
40.png
buffalo:
No need to fine tune - created (from nothing) is the key word.
Click to expand...
The quote stated anything that was manmade. ‘From nothing’ is not in there. If I missed it please show me where, thanks.:tiphat:
 
40.png
buffalo:
Atheist - something I learned awhile ago - walk outside and show yourself anything that was created by man.
Click to expand...
This is the original quote - doesn’t say anything about manmade.

Everything you see is from pre-existent material.
 
40.png
Monarchy:
Sorry,

I am a 31 year old atheist and have been most of my life. I have prayed heart felt prayers and felt nothing but stupid. I do not believe that the bible is infalible, as it was written by man. My main problem with Xianity is the concept of hell. I cannot make the logical dissconnect needed for me to believe that a ‘loving god’ would be willing to throw me in to a burning torture pit for eternity, simply for not seeing enough evidence for his existance. I do not deny god exists, as that is illogical. I am simply without God Belief.
Click to expand...
You raise some interesting questions, but I would suggest that is not God who places the non-believer into hell, but the non-believer who, by his own free will, decides for himself to not follow God. God simply allows the non-believer to make this decision for himself. It is the job of the Christian to try to make others aware that this choice is real and serious. A writer named C.S. Lewis was a strong atheist until a Catholic by the name of J.R.R. Tolkien (and some other friends from the Inklings) persuaded him to take another look at faith. A good book for you to consider reading would be *Mere Christianity, *if you’re interested in an ex-atheist’s perspective on Christ.
 
40.png
Monarchy:
My main problem with Xianity is the concept of hell. I cannot make the logical dissconnect needed for me to believe that a ‘loving god’ would be willing to throw me in to a burning torture pit for eternity, simply for not seeing enough evidence for his existance.
Click to expand...
It is a very Catholic concept that God judges each person based on his/her understanding. The Church has always taught that nobody can be held accountable for something they did not understand or did not have knowledge of. This is termed “invinscible ignorance” and was first elaborated on by Augustine (I believe).

We further believe that everyone has a choice. Nobody is sent to hell (which is not so much a lake of fire as eternal separation from God, the source of all we consider good). C.S. Lewis calls the “fires” of hell the “lights of heaven seen from a distance.” The way I understand it, if someone spends their entire life in a selfish pursuit of pleasure with no regard for the need of others, for example, that person will likely be no less selfish when they die and will probably be incapable of abiding the presence of God. Sadly, many people fit this description.

There are also those who call themselves believers who, with a fairly thorough understanding of the faith, want to force God into an image they have created that suits their own selfish desires. They too may not like the God they meet when they die and may choose separation. Finally, the core reason, I believe, people end up in hell is that they refuse to humble themselves. Humility is tough to take for anyone who has spent many years building their own egos.

Sorry to go on, but you did say before that you were willing to hear the facts. I don’t offer this to you as objectively factual, only the factual representation of what the Catholic Church teaches (sorry, but I’m only an amateur - others can probably do a better job). Unfortunately, too many Christians misrepresent the teachings of Christ and many Catholics don’t know what the Church teaches.

God is a loving God, we believe, but He wants us to freely accept His love. I’ve learned more about the love of God by having children than in all the reading I’ve ever done. Children often reject their parents and go their own way despite the depth of love the parents might have. We are capable of treating God the same way. But, God’s love is perfect and we believe that He will meet each person where he/she is.
 
40.png
Writer:
You raise some interesting questions, but I would suggest that is not God who places the non-believer into hell, but the non-believer who, by his own free will, decides for himself to not follow God. God simply allows the non-believer to make this decision for himself. It is the job of the Christian to try to make others aware that this choice is real and serious. A writer named C.S. Lewis was a strong atheist until a Catholic by the name of J.R.R. Tolkien (and some other friends from the Inklings) persuaded him to take another look at faith. A good book for you to consider reading would be *Mere Christianity, *if you’re interested in an ex-atheist’s perspective on Christ.
Click to expand...
AKA = Free Will

I too recommend C.S. Lewis as well as Thomas Aquinas.
 
40.png
Monarchy:
Show me a extra biblical example (other than Josephus, which is a fake) of his life.

And I am reminded of something that Carl Sagan said “Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence”. Claim that a Jewish capenter/teacher lived in the middle east and taught a different version of Judaim and it isn’t so extraordinary. Claim he could heal people, raise the dead, was killed, rose the third day, and went up to heaven and That is an extraordinary claim. All you have is Hearsay.
Click to expand...
Look, there’s plenty of evidence that he lived - the existance of the faith based on his name is clearly strong evidence. The Shroud of Turin another mystery of his existance. Further, if we expand the scope of evidence of God’s existence BEYOND Jesus’ life we have abundant evidence of Miracles that are associated directly with Catholicism.

Another interesting article from the faith is the Tilma of Our Lady of Guadalupe. This article has been scientifically tested and nobody can explain how it has held up over the years.

Are you familiar with the INCORRUPTABLE bodies of saints? These are individuals who were DUG UP after they had been burried for a number of years to find that their bodies are completely intact.

You rest your faith in an uncertain theory of NO CREATOR behind this creation. Your faith of NO FAITH can’t explain the unexplained such shows the limits of human knowledge.
 
40.png
Monarchy:
Monkeys and humans decended from a comon ancestor.
Click to expand...
That really hasn’t been proven.

Just to clarify my position: I’m not a fundamentalist-creationist, either.

I just don’t like to see Darwinian evolution credited as something proved, when in fact there are some pretty gaping holes in the theory. (See Michael Behe’s “Darwin’s Black Box.”)

God bless,

Gryphon
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top