Atheists delusional?

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Curious11 said:
Are you saying an atheist who sacrifices his life for others can’t be good
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You can do what you like but it doesn’t mean anything. we are all going to cease to exist anyway. What possible meaning could it have beyond your imagination and the fantasies going on in the head of the person you saved. Anybody who rationally understood the choice they were making when they committed themselves to metaphysical naturalism would probably think your a fool.

I of course think that it is a noble and great think to sacrifice yourself for the well being of others. But then again i believe in the object moral value of human beings and refuse to think of them as being any less. I don’t do things that make no sense and then act surprised when people shake their heads.
 
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Well you can assert things all you want, but if you don’t want us to think that you are just a bundle of assertions with nothing of real substance to add, i think you should at least explain your reasoning. We have all been charitable enough to explain why we think the way we do. Why can’t you?
 
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Because I didn’t call you delusional, you guys did. Bedsides, I won’t waste anymore of my energy shouting as a voice in the wilderness.

For the record, if an atheist came here and created a thread called “Christians are delusional”, you would hear the controversy accusations and the flag button pressing all the way from China.

So much for “Christian” (it didn’t even originate with Jesus) golden rules and turn the other cheek
 
Curious11 said:
For the record, if an atheist came here and created a thread called “Christians are delusional”, you would hear the controversy accusations and the flag button pressing all the way from China.
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If it makes you feel any better i wouldn’t flag you. All you would have to do is give good reason for thinking that Christians are delusional. If by some miracle you actually had irrefutable evidence of this i admit that you would be faced with much anger and brutal disgust, but such is the nature of this discussion.

If you come away with anything at all i hope you see how integral and necessary God is to some peoples sense of worth and value. Not everybody can just make it up, like an atheist.
 
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What has lack of belief in God and/or us defining Who God is brought us in the West? Family dissolution like never before, broken homes like never before, highest suicide rate ever, social decay to the point where you cannot even trust your nearest and dearest, not to mention your neighbors and coworkers, confusion about what gender we are - which there is NOTHING “intelligent” about by the way - cultural dissolution and even and lack of understanding of who we are ourselves as individuals. There’s much more than this that can be said but I don’t think that we can say that atheism only is delusional because it was us Christians, who were the guardians of Western society, that allowed the fore-mentioned problems to run riot. Then many of us cry “martyr” for the slightest criticism by those embracing the evils we allowed to be unleashed in the first place. If that doesn’t classify us as delusional, not to give the atheist worldview a pass being that it is bereft of anything of true value either intellectually or spiritually, I don’t know what does.
 
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Atheism is the fault of Christians. Atheism is not really a well reasoned system of philosophy. For the most part it is a reaction against the evils and ignorance committed in the name of religion.
 
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IWantGod said:
If you think that, then you don’t understand the argument. The mere fact that you have brought quantum physics into the discussion proves to me that you don’t understand what you are talking about.
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The fact that you are unaware of how far Quantum physics butts into the metaphysical proves that you don’t understand the counter-intuitiveness of the quantum world and how it relates to the underlying structure of our macroscopic world and potentially to its very inception.
 
IWantGod said:
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pocaracas:
the substrate of all physics, space-time, can account for all the features attributed to the philosopher’s god.
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Nice assertion. Now please explain, or remain silent.
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Universe-Nothing-Lawrence-M-Krauss/dp/1471112683
 
pocaracas said:
The fact that you are unaware of how far Quantum physics butts into the metaphysical proves that you don’t understand the counter-intuitiveness of the quantum world and how it relates to the underlying structure of our macroscopic world and potentially to its very inception.
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Then explain it. What are we talking about here? Multiverses, things popping in and out of nothing, what?
 
Explain what exactly in the link proves that the universe exists without out a cause.

I can’t believe i allowed myself to get excited there. And i was until i saw the name Lawrence Krauss. Then i realized that Pocaracas has got his information from somebody who doesn’t understand metaphysics or the epistemological limitations of the scientific method. You really had m going there.
 
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Marcia said:
Such an interesting thread! My 2cents as a devout practicing Roman Catholic, God gave each of us free will! Christ tells me He has placed before me life and death. Therefore I have a choice. Just as every other human has a choice. I do not consider an atheist delusional, I have friends who are very intelligent atheists. I know that at whatever level I judge I will also be judged. I try to lead by example and love the least of these as Christ has taught me. Very slim chance of conversion when we call people who believe differently than we do delusional.

PEACE BE WITH YOU
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Hello Marcia. The word delusional has a definition, it is not to be thought of as just an insult. I agree with you that there are very many intelligent atheists just as there are very many intelligent Catholics.

You can be intelligent and delusional. In fact in some ways a certain level of intelligence is needed to justify the continuance of falsities in the face of reason.Perhaps the greater the delusion the greater the intelligence needed to talk oneself out of reality. I don’t mean that people who are deluded in some way are stupid. Far from it.

My understanding is that a delusion is to see things not in accordance with reality and to internalise these falsities as if they were true.

I am concerned that if we see the word ‘delusional’ as only an insult which should not be spoken then that is a curtailment of discussing important issues.

As mentioned above. I would expect atheists to see Catholics as delusional. I do not see it as an insult and it is not given as one by me.

whatswrongwithatheism.wordpress.com

Atheism and Delusion – Think about it.

I understand an atheists reluctance to ‘not base his whole life on something he sees no evidence for’. Nobody wants to ‘waste his life’ on delusions. You have to do what your mind thinks is sensibl…
whatswrongwithatheism.wordpress.com whatswrongwithatheism.wordpress.com

PEACE BE WITH YOU TOO. THANK YOU.
 
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You may be interested in reading the book “Disinformation” by Ion Mihai Pacepa.

He was the highest level Soviet intelligence officer to defect to the west and he details the Soviet success in infiltrating Left politics. universities, Left learning Christianity and media and Hollywood. Once infiltrated, these sections of our community fed the general population a diet of disrespect for authority, for western history, politics, capitalism and culture and of course for Christianity.

Many in the west today believe they are independent free thinkers when in fact they have been duped by propaganda. Thinking certain things may be a pre-requisite but as you so rightly point out the real destruction is in the life of the family and the cultural bonds that are supposed to support it.

I am currently reading chapter 9 now titled “The Failed Birth of Hitler’s Pope”. He explains that when the Soviets first tried to invent the idea the Pope colluded with the Nazis no one would believe it because the pope was still alive and everyone knew his opposition to Nazism and his support for the Jews. After Pius XII died they tried again and the idea that the bad Catholic Church helped the Nazis spread like wild fire in the universities. There are so many other such examples.

I think this is much of the Trump phenomena with ‘fake news’ and ignoring Hollywood star endorsements and even climate change and the false compassion of churches in the service of political correctness. There is a huge rebellion against the groups that have been duped into attacking the western cultural tradition that has caused so much pain but I am getting off thread topic.
 
Atheist/ agnostic here,

I really enjoyed your post, but would like to make one argument. The assumption that atheists are delusional if they try and find meaning in the world without a belief in God, or that they believe in any such thing as objective truth doesn’t seem right to me. Is God the only thing in the universe that gives it order and meaning? To believers, this might be the case, but I think that many Atheists think that there is a natural order to things, whether it exists solely in nature, or is a result of the human condition. I don’t know what the truth is, but I do think that there are objective morals and laws which we should all strive towards if we want to coexist peacefully.

Where does the objectivity in the world come from? You got me there. I think that you might have a more fully fleshed out and more concrete answer than I do. If your answer gives you comfort and helps you to find meaning in the world, that’s great, I’m actually jealous! I don’t think (all) atheists and agnostics are delusional, although I’m know many of them are. I think that the search for truth should be encouraged, but unfortunately it seems that many of us arrive at different “truths”. Please, don’t think that I am delusional because I find meaning in different places than you, I certainly don’t think that you are delusional for believing in God.

Cheers!
 
Sorry, i have gone over the video again and nothing he suggests allows me to think that physical reality necessarily exists. We all know that mechanistic causality breaks down at the quantum scale.

I don’t understand why you would think this is evidence of anything? Can you enlighten us?
 
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