Atheists:

[Blade_and_Blood]

No one knows how it began - but there is not a single scientist ready to back up the theory that nothing created something.

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing.

Nothing cannot produce anything more than nothing.

And until you see nothing create something - you have no proof.
Seeing the Universe itself is proof of a Higher Intelligence that created it with order.

And I call it “Time.”

 

[bbarrick8383]

And I call it “Time.”

And only time will tell…

You that you are wrong, unless you wish to accept that there is a God beyond your ability to understand, go to his Church, follow it’s teachings, accept him into your life and then when the Time comes, heaven awaits.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

And only time will tell…

You that you are wrong, unless you wish to accept that there is a God beyond your ability to understand, go to his Church, follow it’s teachings, accept him into your life and then when the Time comes, heaven awaits.

Why would you underestimate Time? I’ve accepted god once, but I realized that he and Santa Claus just happened to be the same person. Not that I’m sour about it; I just grew out of it. Time is all I need now, but I must use it wisely because, for all I know, I could log off and you will never from me again. :yup: I must be productive and so should you. Use your Time however you feel you need to. No pressure.

 

[Veritas248]

I’ve been on a “vacation” so to speak. Now I’m back, and am ready for discourse.

Time, huh? Sorry, but you put far more into time than there actually is. Time is the measure of change in matter, not some strange unknowable force. We can measure time, we can know time. To want to worship time as a god? Folly. Since time is contingent on there being matter, to worship time is to worship something less than perfect. Why worship something imperfect?

God and Santa Claus? I don’t know what to say. I’ll pass on something I recently read in the Peter Kreeft book: The Best Things in Life.

Kreeft, through Socratic dialogues, explains that only an omniscient being can claim that something doesn’t exist. If you do not have full knowledge of ALL of reality, there may exist in reality that we don’t know about, and therefore, to say that something doesn’t exist without definite proof is snobbery. Atheism is snobbery. Only God can say there is no God.

Its good to be back. I expect “colorful” dialogue in the near future.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I’ve been on a “vacation” so to speak. Now I’m back, and am ready for discourse.

Time, huh? Sorry, but **you put far more into time than there actually is. **Time is the measure of change in matter, not some strange unknowable force. We can measure time, we can know time. To want to worship time as a god? Folly. Since time is contingent on there being matter, to worship time is to worship something less than perfect. Why worship something imperfect?

God and Santa Claus? I don’t know what to say. I’ll pass on something I recently read in the Peter Kreeft book: The Best Things in Life.

Kreeft, through Socratic dialogues, explains that only an omniscient being can claim that something doesn’t exist. If you do not have full knowledge of ALL of reality, there may exist in reality that we don’t know about, and therefore, to say that something doesn’t exist without definite proof is snobbery. Atheism is snobbery. Only God can say there is no God.

Its good to be back. I expect “colorful” dialogue in the near future.

The same can be said for the concept or idea of god. Notice the many religions and cultures who worship a god–their perception of what or who god may be. (Granted that a Divine Being exists for a moment,) There’s divinity and far down the scale is where humans are; notice the gap… we, as humans, try to fill that role to somehow reach that divine being. It’s unfortunate, but that’s the price for curiosity.

 

[Veritas248]

The same can be said for the concept or idea of god. Notice the many religions and cultures who worship a god–their perception of what or who god may be. (Granted that a Divine Being exists for a moment,) There’s divinity and far down the scale is where humans are; notice the gap… we, as humans, try to fill that role to somehow reach that divine being. It’s unfortunate, but that’s the price for curiosity.

You speak of man’s search for God.
There is also God’s revelation to man.
There is a MAJOR difference between these two.

I already know what the next question will be:
How can you tell which religion is God’s revelation?
My answers:

1. The laws of logic can eliminate foolish religions.
   2) The being worshiped must be portrayed as perfect.
   3) Consistency in the religious teachings.
   4) Historicity, that is, having a strong root in history.
   5) The number of fulfilled prophecies.
   Not all religions are created equal. There are ways to tell the difference.

PS: I invite all Atheists and strong Agnostics to read the works of Nietzsche and Sartre, the only two atheist philosophers to accept the logical consequences of Atheism. It isn’t pretty.:sad_yes:

 

[bbarrick8383]

The same can be said for the concept or idea of god. Notice the many religions and cultures who worship a god–their perception of what or who god may be. (Granted that a Divine Being exists for a moment,) There’s divinity and far down the scale is where humans are; notice the gap… we, as humans, try to fill that role to somehow reach that divine being. It’s unfortunate, but that’s the price for curiosity.

As I was listening to the Mike Church show today, a young athiest lady called into his show. She said that she lives by a moral code, that she does not need religion to tell her that killing is wrong.

He responded with, well what if I was your atheist neighbor and I chose not to live by that code. (As some would if it were not for religion) What would stop him from killing her to take something just because he needs it, such as food.

Was a very interesting discussion.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

As I was listening to the Mike Church show today, a young athiest lady called into his show. She said that she lives by a moral code, that she does not need religion to tell her that killing is wrong.

He responded with, well what if I was your atheist neighbor and I chose not to live by that code. (As some would if it were not for religion) What would stop him from killing her to take something just because he needs it, such as food.

Was a very interesting discussion.

Common sense and rational thinking. :ehh:

Well, I do believe their are a fair many people who need to live by an organized religion to thrive because without it, they may not possess the common sense that most have in order to live life and survive.

 

[Veritas248]

Common sense and rational thinking. :ehh:

Well, I do believe their are a fair many people who need to live by an organized religion to thrive because without it, they may not possess the common sense that most have in order to live life and survive.

You mind providing evidence that religious people have no common sense?

(Besides the usual stock excuses I mean.)

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

You speak of man’s search for God.
There is also God’s revelation to man.
There is a MAJOR difference between these two.

I already know what the next question will be:
How can you tell which religion is God’s revelation?
My answers:

1. The laws of logic can eliminate foolish religions.
   2) The being worshiped must be portrayed as perfect.
   3) Consistency in the religious teachings.
   4) Historicity, that is, having a strong root in history.
   5) The number of fulfilled prophecies.
   Not all religions are created equal. There are ways to tell the difference.

PS: I invite all Atheists and strong Agnostics to read the works of Nietzsche and Sartre, the only two atheist philosophers to accept the logical consequences of Atheism. It isn’t pretty.:sad_yes:

Oh, I’ve read some of Nietzsche. That dude is a genius… and considering his time, he must’ve been a little more than just brave.

Your five excuses–I mean, answers ] are definitely applicable to any argument that has anything to do with religion… in other words, even an Atheist could use them-- #3 being more psychological than anything else; #4 and #5 being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And no, I wasn’t going to ask you that question–(Please, don’t put words into my mouth, by the way: My major pet peeve.) I was just going to comment: “Man’s search for their ideal perception of a god.” Nothing major; nothing unheard of.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

You mind providing evidence that religious people have no common sense?

(Besides the usual stock excuses I mean.)

No. As people, in general, common sense is there… obviously. There are just some people who are used their religion acting as a crutch for so long that it is basically all they know. Many who are asked to imagine if a god doesn’t exist, they answer that they couldn’t live or “what’s the point of living?” or “there would be no morals to live by”-- as if a sense of right and wrong was invented by religion when it was clearly organized by religion.

Some would just “go crazy” without their god. Your perception of an Atheist and the Atheist itself are two totally different Atheists.

 

[Veritas248]

Oh, I’ve read some of Nietzsche. That dude is a genius… and considering his time, he must’ve been a little more than just brave.

Your five excuses–I mean, answers ] are definitely applicable to any argument that has anything to do with religion… in other words, even an Atheist could use them-- #3 being more psychological than anything else; #4 and #5 being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And no, I wasn’t going to ask you that question–(Please, don’t put words into my mouth, by the way: My major pet peeve.) I was just going to comment: “Man’s search for their ideal perception of a god.” Nothing major; nothing unheard of.

1. Let me tell you a secret about Nietzsche: He died insane in an asylum. Couldn’t handle his own philosophy.
2. Your cleverly disguised insult aside, if those 5 statements are used together, they can be of major use. Sure, people will believe what they want, but that is exactly the point: no one cares about truth anymore.
3. Fair enough, but that question usually follows.

 

[Veritas248]

No. As people, in general, common sense is there… obviously. There are just some people who are used their religion acting as a crutch for so long that it is basically all they know. Many who are asked to imagine if a god doesn’t exist, they answer that they couldn’t live or “what’s the point of living?” or “there would be no morals to live by”-- as if a sense of right and wrong was invented by religion when it was clearly organized by religion.
**
Some would just “go crazy” without their god**. Your perception of an Atheist and the Atheist itself are two totally different Atheists.

And as Nietzsche proved, some go crazy without a God.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

And as Nietzsche proved, some go crazy without a God.

The key word is “some.” :yup:

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

1. Let me tell you a secret about Nietzsche: He died insane in an asylum. Couldn’t handle his own philosophy.
2. Your cleverly disguised insult aside, if those 5 statements are used together, they can be of major use. Sure, people will believe what they want, but that is exactly the point: no one cares about truth anymore.
3. Fair enough, but that question usually follows.

1. Who told you that was a secret? Besides, I highly doubt his philosophies had anything to do with his psychotic breakdown. If it did, then wow! The truth really does hurt.
2. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist.) People are increasingly caring about the truth, actually. Agnosticism and Atheism is on the rise. Just kidding. But don’t say that people don’t care about truth. If anything, many search for it, but a philosophical, theological, or religious truth (or all three) are more opinion, even for you and even for me. Catholicism just makes sense to you in every way; I’m assuming it’s all you know in experience, so it’s only natural for it to be absolute truth in your mind and your life along with the minds and lives others. Not that that’s bad. It’s whatever helps you sleep at night. But this is coming from an Agnostic, so I wouldn’t think you’d see it my way.
3. I’m not Atheist, man. Agnosticism has different levels; we’re not too predictable as you’d like to think we are.

 

[annem]

But don’t say that people don’t care about truth. If anything, many search for it, but a philosophical, theological, or religious truth (or all three)

Do you really think so? I have to say, I find the opposite true. There is a shallow silliness to the Oprah/Deepak Chopra types that makes me feel like giggling. Then there are the ones who hunt for truth in eastern ‘religions’ because they have no solid morality. Then there are the haters and ranters, who just want to have fun. But true thinkers…I don’t see it, not much.

You have to ask yourself–and it’s the first question and the most important question–whether or not God exists. The answer you find changes everything and for the rest of your life. Frankly, all I see is shallow nonsense and angry hedonists who want to do what they want to do. Serious thought about whether God exists? Nowhere.

May God grant you a million miracles, Annem

 

[AirLiner]

You have to ask yourself–and it’s the first question and the most important question–whether or not God exists. The answer you find changes everything and for the rest of your life. Frankly, all I see is shallow nonsense and angry hedonists who want to do what they want to do. Serious thought about whether God exists? Nowhere.

Well, not all atheists are hedonistic libertines. Nonetheless one of the greatest absurdities of atheism is that it’s compatible with morality. In an atheist viewpoint the world is merely matter in motion. If you pick up a rock you merely move matter, if someone is killed, matter is merely moved. So the idea that atheism and morality are compatible is absurd. However they do tend to accept one of the most obvious forms of morality (altruism). So either atheists paradoxically acknowledge the absurdity of materialism by thinking morality is real or they just accept that they’re reasoning is flawed and decide to live moral lives knowing it doesn’t make sense.

Another thing that demonstrates the pathetic attempts to conform materialism to obvious truths is free will. Apparently there are atheists that believe in free will, because it well its obviously real not to mention the basis for all legal systems. But from an atheistic standpoint the mind is made of brain tissue, nerves, atoms, sub atomic particles merely moving around. Hence there is no free will unless matter in motion like rock slides have free will. Most scientists don’t believe in it. Yet the common atheist being the extraordinary philosopher that he is doesn’t realize the implications of his beliefs and often does seem to believe in free will. However the atheistic standpoint makes for an interesting concept. Let’s say someone commits a murder and as their defense they use the atheistic idea that free will isn’t real. Hence for billions of years now his fate was sealed. Nobody had any control over whether he would commit a crime or even be acquitted. So why should he be punished? From the standpoint of atheistic materialism this actually makes sense. :dts:

So yes indeed atheism is inherently nihilistic. Luckily for us the atheists ignore their own reasoning so we don’t have a bunch hedonistic libertines running around.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Do you really think so? I have to say, I find the opposite true. There is a shallow silliness to the Oprah/Deepak Chopra types that makes me feel like giggling. Then there are the ones who hunt for truth in eastern ‘religions’ because they have no solid morality. Then there are the haters and ranters, who just want to have fun. But true thinkers…I don’t see it, not much.

You have to ask yourself–and it’s the first question and the most important question–whether or not God exists. The answer you find changes everything and for the rest of your life. Frankly, all I see is shallow nonsense and angry hedonists who want to do what they want to do. Serious thought about whether God exists? Nowhere.

May God grant you a million miracles, Annem

Mind the rest of my statement. :ehh:

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Well, not all atheists are hedonistic libertines. Nonetheless one of the greatest absurdities of atheism is that it’s compatible with morality. In an atheist viewpoint the world is merely matter in motion. If you pick up a rock you merely move matter, if someone is killed, matter is merely moved. So the idea that atheism and morality are compatible is absurd. However they do tend to accept one of the most obvious forms of morality (altruism). So either atheists paradoxically acknowledge the absurdity of materialism by thinking morality is real or they just accept that they’re reasoning is flawed and decide to live moral lives knowing it doesn’t make sense.

Another thing that demonstrates the pathetic attempts to conform materialism to obvious truths is free will. Apparently there are atheists that believe in free will, because it well its obviously real not to mention the basis for all legal systems. But from an atheistic standpoint the mind is made of brain tissue, nerves, atoms, sub atomic particles merely moving around. Hence there is no free will unless matter in motion like rock slides have free will. Most scientists don’t believe in it. Yet the common atheist being the extraordinary philosopher that he is doesn’t realize the implications of his beliefs and often does seem to believe in free will. However the atheistic standpoint makes for an interesting concept. Let’s say someone commits a murder and as their defense they use the atheistic idea that free will isn’t real. Hence for billions of years now his fate was sealed. Nobody had any control over whether he would commit a crime or even be acquitted. So why should he be punished? From the standpoint of atheistic materialism this actually makes sense. :dts:

So yes indeed atheism is inherently nihilistic. Luckily for us the atheists ignore their own reasoning so we don’t have a bunch hedonistic libertines running around.

Atheists still have a sense of responsibility… and common sense. It’s not good to generalize with stereotypes.

 

[AirLiner]

So yes indeed atheism is inherently nihilistic. Luckily for us the atheists ignore their own reasoning so we don’t have a bunch hedonistic libertines running around.

Atheists still have a sense of responsibility… and common sense. It’s not good to generalize with stereotypes.

Thanks for proving my point.