Attending Mass At Different Parishes

[po18guy]

The importance of prayer cannot be over-stressed.

 

[babochka]

African priests also tend to speak longer

I was married by a Nigerian priest. Our wedding was 1 hour and 40 minutes long. It wasn’t a problem for me, as I am Byzantine and used to rather long services, but I think that our non-catholic family and friends were a little taken aback by the length, even those who knew to expect a long wedding in a Catholic Church.

 

[dochawk]

I was married by a Nigerian priest. Our wedding was 1 hour and 40 minutes long.

:crazy_face:

I don’t know which African country the priest from my former RC parish was from, but his homilies were certainly long.

I managed to force myself to stay with him through an entire homily once. I was exhausted by the end.

Now, to put this in context, I have a physics degree, a law degree, and a Ph.D. jointly in Economics and statistics. I can and have sat through and absorbed 50 minute lectures in quantum physics averaging two lines of notes, and 100 minutes lectures in Ph.D. Economics averaging about the same, and 50 minute Ph.D. classes in Statistics, at probably three or four lines.

Staying with that homily was work. And it was easily enough content for a 50 minute masters class . . .

Great information, very well organized, but not something that more than a couple of people in town would possibly have a chance of taking in.

And that’s before accounting for his thick accent, which most people didn’t get past . . .

And, come to think of it, when we were doing KofC breakfasts, we changed our timing when he was the celebrant . . .

One of the things I love about Pittsburgh/Ruthenian parishes is that almost everyone sings all of the people’s parts . . . the interchange between clergy and laypeople was one of the things that drew me to it . .

 

[blackforest]

I would compare what I’ve seen instead to going to someone’s house, and when everyone started to leave for the evening, one of the other guests insisting that everyone stay until she performed a song . . .

Hopefully God isn’t staring at a watch and musing, “Will this crazy women EVER leave???”

 

[dochawk]

kind of like the priest and 17 year old girl in St. Peter’s waiting room?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I was married by a Nigerian priest. Our wedding was 1 hour and 40 minutes long.

I think someone, perhaps the bishop himself, needs to tell these priests, “Look, I know it doesn’t seem right to you, and maybe it’s not right, but Americans have very short attention spans, compared to what you’re used to — they can’t help it, that’s just our culture, just the way they were brought up, and it’s no reflection on their holiness. If you want to have these people take to heart what you say, you really need to speak for a briefer period of time than what you are accustomed to doing. It’s not you, it’s them, but just cater to them, could you do that for them?”

 

[catholic03]

We currently have a couple of African immigrant priests at two parishes I regularly attend.

It’s so wonderful how they give up their lives at home and come and serve the Lord in a new country - we have exactly the same issues in New Zealand.

The Irish families who traditionally produced many sons, and at least one priest no longer exist anymore - we have priests from Samoa, Tonga, Kiribati, Vietnam, India etc. Like African priests in the US, they have come to a new country. My pastor is NZ European but both our assistant priests are from the Pacific Islands.

These men are most honourable for giving up their lives at home to come here and serve the faithful in countries where vocations are at a standstill. Nonetheless, the situation in the US is still better - at least you have Americans who are becoming priests!

At the seminary in Auckland, NZ, there are about 3 NZ Europeans, no Maori (the indigenous population of NZ), but many Vietnamese and Chinese seminarians (the majority, in fact).

I feel that in some places, the future of the Church is that priests from other countries will become more common.

 

[phil19034]

Do you know who taught thjs? Was it a “church” teaching or a family/group teaching?

I know that there is an official ending of the Ordinary Form. There is a time that the priest says “Mass has ended.”

Is there a time when the Extraordinary Form ends? Or is the end more fluid?

In the Extraordinary Form:

• the priest says at a Low Mass or chants at a High Mass “Ite, missa est” which translates to “Go, the Mass is ended.” (NOTE: At a Solemn Mass, it’s different)
• Then people respond “Deo gratias” which translates to “Thanks be to God.” Then, everyone kneels for the blessing.
• Afterwards, the Last Gospel is read (first few verses of John 1)

In regards to your question “who taught this,” it was in the personal missals. If you have a Missal for the Extraordinary Form, you are following along the whole mass.

At the end of the mass, there are prayers ordered by the Pope used during the Low Mass:

• Three Hail Mary’s
• Hail Holy Queen
• St. Michael the Archangel
• and finally three “Most Sacred Heart of Jesus” - “Have mercy upon us”

After that, there are a number of after Mass prayers in the “Thanksgiving After Mass” section.

So when you are using the missal at the Latin Mass, it basically instructs you to start praying right after mass has ended. In my Latin Mass missal, there are 5 pages of prayers to use after mass. And that’s not including all the personal prayers after communion that they have listed in the beginning of the missal.

The missal is truly amazing and something that vast majority of Catholics stopped buying when the mass became vernacular.

God Bless

 

[dochawk]

t’s not you, it’s them, but just cater to them, could you do that for them?”

that would, indeed, be useful.

He had wonderful stuff in those homilies. There was just more than anyone could digest.

And it applies not just to priests from other cultures, but to some of our own very best. I’ve seen some of the best homilists I’ve ever heard make a perfect conclusion, knocking the lesson out of the park . . . and then continue, losing that incredibly effective would-be conclusion . . .

(our priest was invited some years to a predominantly black parish that converted to RC en mass from whatever type of protestantism–but had retained the taste for the long homilies. He was warned ahead of time that the minimum expecting speaking time was something like fifty minutes–and the those that didn’t were never invited back! He’s one of the small handful that can pass the “seven minute” mark and still be effective, and sometimes puts on hour long adult educational talks for us–but I sure would have loved to hear that one . . .)

“Ite, missa est” . . .Then people respond “Deo gratias” which translates to “Thanks be to God.”

Whereas in some parishes, the people say that when the sermon ends

something that vast majority of Catholics stopped buying when the mass became vernacular.

I’m not sure that it was so much that as the fact that misalettes in the pews became the norm . .

 

[phil19034]

I’m not sure that it was so much that as the fact that misalettes in the pews became the norm . .

I was born in 1977. In the early 80s, I don’t remember seeing a missalette. I don’t think my parish had them until the late 80s or early 1990s (that’s not to say they didn’t exist elsewhere).

In the 80s, I remember every one would get the bulletin before Mass because the readings would be printed at the beginning (similar to what a lot of Latin Mass parishes still do today).

I don’t know how many parishes were like that in the early 80s, but mine was.

Anyone remember when the OCP and other “throw away” missalettes became a staple in American parishes?

 

[dochawk]

I was born in 1977. In the early 80s, I don’t remember seeing a missalette

I remember them from before you were born

As a practical matter, both they and the folders of poorly mimeographed copyright violations, err, hymns and modern hymns, must have been in my parish by about 1970 or so.

And come to think of it, at the beginning of the day’s entry, where it noted the Sunday on the calendar, it also noted the “Eastern Rite” calendar day for some reason or another. It wasn’t because any EC churches were still using the Western liturgy; that forcible abuse had ended decades earlier . . . this was the only reference I would see to Eastern Catholicism until an article in Time in jr high or high school which noted the use of the Orthodox liturgy, fancier vestments, and married priests–which was pretty much more than most RC knew about the east just in that sentence!

 

[Phemie]

And come to think of it, at the beginning of the day’s entry, where it noted the Sunday on the calendar, it also noted the “Eastern Rite” calendar day for some reason or another. It wasn’t because any EC churches were still using the Western liturgy; that forcible abuse had ended decades earlier . . . this was the only reference I would see to Eastern Catholicism until an article in Time in jr high or high school which noted the use of the Orthodox liturgy, fancier vestments, and married priests–which was pretty much more than most RC knew about the east just in that sentence!

It still amazes/saddens me that we are not taught about the Eastern Rites. I’m sure I was in my 40s before I discovered there was more than Roman Catholic. Unfortunately, due to where I live, I have not had the opportunity to experience an eastern liturgy.

 

[Glennon_P]

Anyone remember when the OCP and other “throw away” missalettes became a staple in American parishes?

My earliest memories of Mass (1967 or so) include Missalettes. I’ve never been in a parish that didn’t have them.

 

[maryjk]

The “who taught this,” was in reference to it being rude to leave during the recessional. And in reference to the Ordinary form of the Mass. Since based on what you wrote, the Extraordinary Form doesn’t have a recessional.

I’m sorry that wasn’t obvious to you.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

And it applies not just to priests from other cultures, but to some of our own very best. I’ve seen some of the best homilists I’ve ever heard make a perfect conclusion, knocking the lesson out of the park . . . and then continue, losing that incredibly effective would-be conclusion . . .

That is precisely what I am talking about. They reach a certain point, you think “excellent sermon! — loved it!” and then… five more minutes of explanation. As I said above, for Protestants, this would be nothing, but aside from Anglicans and Lutherans, they really don’t have a “liturgy”, no, it is all about the sermons and the hymns. Both have to be excellent, and it has to be a “good production”, otherwise it’s a failure. Emotions have to be lifted. It has to feel good. Many people pick a “church home” largely for the preaching and the music. If you have a Catholic parish where the sermon and the hymns fall flat, it’s no big deal — the Mass is always “excellent” simply because it is the Mass. I’m sure it happens, but it’s not common to hear a Catholic raving about how wonderful the sermon and the hymns are at Parish X.

 

[phil19034]

Since based on what you wrote, the Extraordinary Form doesn’t have a recessional.

The Extraordinary Form does have a recessional on Sundays, Feast Days & Solemnities.

The priest and servers recess out, the people in the pew stay put.

The “who taught it was rude” I think really does come from the 1962 Missal. Families were taught to stay in their pews and then to pray after the recessional hymn was over. Hence, you didn’t leave until after it was over.

I think what has happened is that people have forgotten that the reason to wait until the hymn is over is so you can quietly pray. Its not about showing the musicians respect, it’s about taking time to give Thanksgiving to God.

 

[Anne1964]

I’m the one who made the “taught it was rude” comment.

It may have been that when I was a child (60s-70s) people were still in the habit of waiting until the recessional hymn was over before leaving.

I was away from the Church for 30 years and when I returned I was surprised that so many people left either after receiving Communion or during the recessional hymn.

 

[dochawk]

They reach a certain point, you think “excellent sermon! — loved it!” and then… five more minutes of explanation.

which, unfortunately, undercuts the point, and leaves the listener not remembering what it was about!

The “who taught it was rude” I think really does come from the 1962 Missal. Families were taught to stay in their pews and then to pray after the recessional hymn was over. Hence, you didn’t leave until after it was over.

The directive to pray would certainly be a way to reign in the performers in the choir who want to sing another six verses . . . with such a directive in place, their performance would actively impede what is supposed to happen ,. . .

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The “who taught it was rude” I think really does come from the 1962 Missal. Families were taught to stay in their pews and then to pray after the recessional hymn was over. Hence, you didn’t leave until after it was over.

I have never heard that. Just putting it bluntly, Catholics don’t have a concept of “that guy was rude” in Mass — we go for the sake of Almighty God and our own sanctification, and Catholics typically neither know nor care what the other guy does. Catholics tend not to be judgmental about other people’s behavior — everyone is more or less “doing their own thing”.

And I’ve never understood this thing of “leaving right after communion”. You can stay the entire hour to receive, but you can’t manage that last 10 minutes? Are people really that pressed for time? Wait — in the United States, that very well could be. Our entire culture needs to slow down and recollect itself. People are nervous wrecks anymore.

They reach a certain point, you think “excellent sermon! — loved it!” and then… five more minutes of explanation.

And, as I alluded to above, it’s an American attention span thing. In many (if not most) other cultures, people have a higher tolerance for lengthy explanations. In France and Poland, to use just two examples that are not so far removed from ours (when compared to African or Asian cultures), people take time to go into detail, to consider various aspects, to listen, and to absorb what they discuss. Here, not so much. Everything is sound bites, tweets, texts, and other forms of information conveyed in brief. And I’ve gotten infected with it myself. Occasionally I try to watch the PBS Newshour and the CBC National, and eventually I just throw my hands up, say “this is too much”, and change the channel. Thoughtful discussion and analysis isn’t respected in today’s culture, and this percolates down to inability to appreciate long sermons.

 

[ThomasMT]

And I’ve never understood this thing of “leaving right after communion”. You can stay the entire hour to receive, but you can’t manage that last 10 minutes?

I do find it a bit silly myself… especially as it invalidates fulfillment of holy day obligation (at least that is my understanding).