Attending Mass at your local parish

[Phemie]

It’s a simple matter to get permission from your local Pastor.
It helps him know how he’s not meeting the needs of all his parishioners.
This may help countless other neighbors of yours.

Win-win-win situation that way.

Having grown up in a small village with a school and a church, I knew nothing about the canonical rules on a pastor’s responsibility: we just went to the local school and church. When I got married I was still living in that community so that wasn’t a problem, but marriage made me a military dependent with all the moves that entailed.

When our first child was born it never occurred to me that I would need the Padre’s permission to take my child back home for baptism. Dad called the pastor in village church, made arrangements and he baptized DD when we went home, no questions asked, no mention that we needed our pastor’s permission. Same with our second child. We lived too far away when the third child was born so he was baptized on the military base.

As a military family our parish was the military chapel on base, whether or not we lived on Base. In reality those who didn’t live in on-Base housing usually joined their territorial parish and the children received sacraments in those parishes or in the parish where they went to school. Never was I asked for my pastor’s permission for my children to make their First Communion.

It was only when I had been working as a parish secretary for a few years that I happened to see a note in the baptismal register of one of the parishes I was serving. The baptism was entered with a comment that the baby having been baptized at St. Anne de Beaupré “without permission”. Why the baptism was noted in this register on hearsay I don’t know but I asked the pastor about the ‘without permission’ and he explained.

Until that time I had seen young families do exactly what I had done in their shoes: brought their children ‘home’ to be baptized. We required proof of preparation but never did we ask for their pastor’s permission. From then on when we prepared someone for a baptism that we knew was going to be celebrated in another parish (not rare with our transient population) I always made sure that the letter telling the other parish that the parents had been prepared also included a mention of the pastor giving his permission for the baptism to take place in another parish and if someone called to ask about coming home to have their child baptized I asked them to bring a letter from their pastor with them. All this to say that I haven’t met too many priests who paid much attention to this particular rule.

 

[Catholic90]

I wonder how things will go for you if in another 20 years you find yourself homebound with a new generation of parishioners that have no idea who you are, and with priests that are overtaxed by their “own” parishioners. I just did a funeral for a woman who went through this sad state. It was horrible. The children were all adrift and lost as well. Pray for them.

I have always been very involved, and I do not see that changing at all in years to come. My parish has people who drive 45 minutes or more to attend and who drive their children to RE there as well on Wednesdays - 45 minutes or more! As part of my volunteering, I have to prepare mailings from the parish occasionally, and there are something like 45 different zip codes that get mailings.

Many of my neighbors attend there. The church I attend is physically closer to me than my “geographic parish”. I am literally 5 minutes from there. The other one, I have to cross a freeway, go through several lights, and it takes about 20 minutes to get to.

I have NEVER heard the priests talk about “geographic parishes”.

 

[FrDavid96]

Isn’t there a canon law about using to much canon law?, just kidding. My only question is:
Is a territory by parish or by dioceses?

My local Church (2 miles away) has mainly Spanish masses so I have to go to one about 8 miles away in city traffic. Would I be ok?

First, I quoted the canons because the OP did ask for them.

Secondly, the point is that there are both rights and obligations under canon law, and there are indeed times when the question of “who is the proper pastor?” is a very important one.

As to your question, remember that I’ve already posted that a Catholic can visit any parish at any time. So if you have some reason (you only need to satisfy your own criteria here) to go to the one 8 miles away on a Sunday, that’s your call. But you do need to know that going there won’t make you a parishioner. And keep in mind that there may be some event in your future where you will be required to go through your proper parish and when that day comes, you probably don’t want to be in a situation where you are unknown to your own parish.

Both parishes and dioceses are territorial. The exceptions of course being “personal” ones. The only personal dioceses (in the US) are the Military Archdiocese and the new Anglican Ordinariate (which isn’t actually a diocese–different thread).

 

[FrDavid96]

I do find it amazing that people will post personal anecdotes here about “I’ve done it this way and it’s never been a problem…” to suggest (whether directly or indirectly) that others disregard canon law. It truly does amaze me.

Think about these statements:

I’ve never got a speeding ticket, although I often drive over the limit
I’ve never been audited by the IRS, although I often cheat on my taxes
I’ve never been fired, although I often help myself to what’s in the cash register at work
I’ve never been caught, although I often download pirated music and movies from the internet
I’ve never been caught, although I still vote for governor of the state where I don’t live anymore.

Why is it that when it comes to a matter of canon law a different standard applies?

 

[puzzleannie]

The 1917 Code of Canon Law required that the faithful attend Mass at their local parish. The 1983 Code seems to have dismissed that requirement: 1248 states that “A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.” My reading of this is that no matter which parish you go to, as long as it’s a valid, licit Mass, you have fulfilled your obligation.

quite right, whereever you go to Mass in a Catholic Church fulfills your obligation, but that is not related to the rest of this discussion about which parish you belong to, which is covered in another section of canon law, and which essentially has not changed. you are automatically a member of the geographic or canonical parish in which you reside. That has always been the case and still is.

What has changed is that in most places it is somewhat easier to change parishes, and that is how the system of “registration” came to be so the pastor knows who, outside his boundaries, wants him to be the pastor in charge of their sacramental life. It is still the pastor’s right and duty to care for the souls in his jurisdiction and he is the one who decides who is or is not a practicing Catholic, who is or is not supporting the parish, and who will or will not be candidates for sacraments. That also has not changed.

 

[zab]

We only have two Catholic Churches in our town. They are about 6 miles apart. There is only one Catholic School and the parents who are parishioners get a break on tuition. ( It is assumed that parishioners contribute to the support of the parish.) Over the years, there have been some families who wanted to be members of our parish, not only to get the reduced tuition but because our parish is more traditional in both celebration and architecture than the other parish. I recall that our pastor required those school parents who wanted to be parishioners at our church but lived in the territory of the other parish to get permission from the other pastor.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Don’t take this as a slam against the OF but pre-VII it didn’t matter much where one attended Mass since all were essentially the same. Today we sadly have a widely varying Liturgical format, GIRM aside since it is often ignored, so it can make a spiritual difference to an individual where one attends Mass. I will not set foot in my local parish rather I attend the OF at a far more conservative parish 10 miles away when I attend the OF at all, mostly I attend at an FSSP parish, also 10 miles away where I can worship at an EF Mass. According to the Canon Law my attendance at the TLM parish is acceptable as a Personal Parish but attendance at the non-local OF parish is not. This is not a matter of scripture, dogma or anything other than archaic custom that needs modification in light of the highly variable “new” Mass.

For the record, our Archdiocese office when asked specifically about this issue stated that we could attend and register at any parish within the Archdiocese and treat it and be treated as if it was our local parish.

 

[Catholic90]

What has changed is that in most places it is somewhat easier to change parishes, and that is how the system of “registration” came to be so the pastor knows who, outside his boundaries, wants him to be the pastor in charge of their sacramental life. It is still the pastor’s right and duty to care for the souls in his jurisdiction and he is the one who decides who is or is not a practicing Catholic, who is or is not supporting the parish, and who will or will not be candidates for sacraments. That also has not changed.

We “registered” at our current church when we joined as a newly married couple 22 years ago. Our kids later went to the parish school there, and school admissions were based on registration dates. So people who had been registered longer were admitted before people who registered the week before school started. (there is a waiting list for this Catholic school). So that is where we have always gone. No one ever told us that was not our “geographic parish”, ever. How would we have known that? The priests at this church have been the ones to care for our souls…they are the ones who visited DH in the hospital, administered the sacraments, buried him, etc. So if it is the pastor’s duty to care for souls in his jurisdiction, should not THAT priest from our geographical parish have found us and told us that? How would we have known otherwise? No one ever told us any differently.

I plan to be buried (in about 40 years ) at this same parish where my kids went to school and where I have been an active member. I plan to be buried in the church cemetery. It is my church home.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Thank you for your kind reply. I would love to see the references in Canon Law, if you please.

I’m not sure I understand what someone in my situation is supposed to do. We began attending Mass at our current parish with an eye to the future - we anticipated buying a house in that parish’s territory. And so we got involved.

Life happened, and now we are not going to be living in that territory…but we have ties to this parish. Are we supposed to just sever those ties and move on, just because we are moving somewhere we weren’t planning to move? What does that mean for the parish we’re moving to? Should we bother getting involved if we are going to be obligated to just chuck it all and start over at another parish if we move again?

Of course you shouldn’t refrain from getting involved at your proper parish just because one day in the future you might move. That makes no sense.

What Fr David is saying is that despite your preferences or registration or common practice, there is indeed still such a thing as a territorial parish - the parish whose boundries include your house.

In your situation, I would make an effort to begin to attend my local parish - especially since it is in a difference diocese. First because it is your proper parish, but also because with a new baby and hopefully more to come, you will likely find that a distance considered not too far now becomes difficult to navigate for weekly Mass and other activies.

Speak to the pastor of your current church and let him know where/when you are moving. I’m sure you will find him very understanding. The same with the Knights and other groups you may belong to. In a major metropolitan area people are used to transition and I am sure you will not find anyone expecting you to regularly drive across town to continue attending there.

A final thought - priests are regularly moved between parishes (here it is about every 3 years for associates and 10 years or so for pastors). You could easily find the priests you like moved to new parishes after ordinations this summer. It is better to build community within the community where you live.

 

[FrDavid96]

Without even thinking about it very long, I can think of 3 high-profile examples of parish territory being very much an issue: Boston, Philadelphia and Cleveland.

In these 3 places (and many others that I haven’t bothered to really try to remember) because of parishes closing, combining, re-aligning, etc. Parish boundaries are being very strictly enforced (as they should be everywhere). There are many people there who are finding themselves in difficult situations because they are disregarding (either intentionally or not) the parish territories.

The simple reality is that in today’s Catholic environment parishes and especially priests are being stretched to the limit. Parishes have no choice but to tell people who don’t live within their proper boundaries “we cannot accomodate you, you will have to go to your own proper parish.” This is especially relevant for baptisms, wedding, funerals, and sacramental preparation.

Surely, most pastors are willing to make the occasional exception and either give or obtain permission if it’s required—but that’s not the issue. It doesn’t mean the boundaries are unimportant, certainly not that they don’t exist. It just means that exceptions can be made. At the same time though, Catholics should not just assume that those exceptions will be made when the time comes. Sometimes they just cannot be done.

Whether people like it or not, and whether posters here are willing to admit it or not, a Catholic parish is a territory.

One person’s experience of “I’ve always done it this way and I’ve never had a problem” is not in any way, shape, or form, an indication that someone else will not have a problem either now or in the future. Indeed, posts like that do more harm than good.

 

[zab]

We “registered” at our current church when we joined as a newly married couple 22 years ago. Our kids later went to the parish school there, and school admissions were based on registration dates. So people who had been registered longer were admitted before people who registered the week before school started. (there is a waiting list for this Catholic school). So that is where we have always gone. No one ever told us that was not our “geographic parish”, ever. How would we have known that? The priests at this church have been the ones to care for our souls…they are the ones who visited DH in the hospital, administered the sacraments, buried him, etc. So if it is the pastor’s duty to care for souls in his jurisdiction, should not THAT priest from our geographical parish have found us and told us that? How would we have known otherwise? No one ever told us any differently.

I plan to be buried (in about 40 years ) at this same parish where my kids went to school and where I have been an active member. I plan to be buried in the church cemetery. It is my church home.

The problems mostly occur when someone has not been attending Mass regularly and is not known by the pastor or parishioners. This is when there could be problems.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I like to attend the numerous Catholic churches in my area, the mass is different. Some kneel some don’t in various Catholic churches. Some do sign of peace others don’t.

You can attend Mass anywhere. But you only belong to one parish.

 

[Phemie]

I do find it amazing that people will post personal anecdotes here about “I’ve done it this way and it’s never been a problem…” to suggest (whether directly or indirectly) that others disregard canon law. It truly does amaze me.

Think about these statements:

I’ve never got a speeding ticket, although I often drive over the limit
I’ve never been audited by the IRS, although I often cheat on my taxes
I’ve never been fired, although I often help myself to what’s in the cash register at work
I’ve never been caught, although I often download pirated music and movies from the internet
I’ve never been caught, although I still vote for governor of the state where I don’t live anymore.

Why is it that when it comes to a matter of canon law a different standard applies?

I didn’t post to say ‘do as I did’ but rather to say that most of us don’t know about this because we’ve never run into priests who’ve mentioned it or insisted on it. In fact, on these boards the most frequently mentioned time when this becomes an issue is not Baptism, Confirmation or First Communion, it’s marriage and that usually in large parishes with a limited number of slots available for marriage celebrations.

Just to give an example, in the town next to the village where I grew up, there were two parishes based on geography, one 65 years old, one 140 years old. The parishes served a bilingual population and Masses were celebrated in English and French. About 15 years ago those two parishes where rearranged based on language. It was easier to assign one Pastor to the Francophone parish and make him administrator to 3 neighbouring parishes (one of which is my village parish) with primarily Francophone populations, and a Pastor to the Anglophone parish and make him administrator of 3 neighbouring parishes serving primarily Anglophone populations. Canonically, all Anglophones belong to one parish and all Francophones belong to the other. If bilingual families, such as I grew up in, don’t care whether they attend Mass in English or French, how do they determine to which parish they belong? The bilingual people who lived next door to one church were unlikely to start attending the other parish unless they really wanted to only hear Mass celebrated in their mother tongue.

 

[Kielbasi]

. Canonically, all Anglophones belong to one parish and all Francophones belong to the other. If bilingual families, such as I grew up in, don’t care whether they attend Mass in English or French, how do they determine to which parish they belong? The bilingual people who lived next door to one church were unlikely to start attending the other parish unless they really wanted to only hear Mass celebrated in their mother tongue.

In a situation like what you’ve described, I think that only one of the parishes can be the geographic parish for the town.

Which would people that live in the town who aren’t French or English belong to? Suppose the Canadian government were to resettle presumably Catholic Croat or Cuban refugees in the town?

Here in the United States, if someone is a Pole for example, they would still have the right to be a member of the geographic parish even if there was a personal, Polish ethnic parish in the town.

 

[dans0622]

The 1917 Code of Canon Law required that the faithful attend Mass at their local parish. …

Hello,

I am not that well-informed on the 1917 Code so there might be a regulation of which I am unaware. The only requirement I am aware of has been alluded to by FrDavid96, regarding the fulfillment of the “Easter Communion” precept. Canon 859.3 of the 1917 Code stated: “The faithful are to be persuaded to satisfy this precept in their own parishes; those who satisfy it in another parish should take care to let their own pastor know about their fulfilling the precept” (Ed Peters’ translation).

So, it really isn’t that anyone was required to fulfill this precept at his own parish but that somebody (a parish priest, I suppose) was to tell the faithful to do this. However, if they didn’t do it at their own parish, the faithful were to tell their own pastor.

There is no such norm in the 1983 Code.

Dan

 

[Phemie]

In a situation like what you’ve described, I think that only one of the parishes can be the geographic parish for the town.

Which would people that live in the town who aren’t French or English belong to? Suppose the Canadian government were to resettle presumably Catholic Croat or Cuban refugees in the town?

Here in the United States, if someone is a Pole for example, they would still have the right to be a member of the geographic parish even if there was a personal, Polish ethnic parish in the town.

I suppose they would attend Mass in the language with which they are most comfortable. AFAIK, there is no geographic parish, there are two language-based pastoral units. I wanted to show how it’s broken down on the diocesan website but they’ve updated it and haven’t translated it to English yet.

 

[InspiritCarol]

I have always been very involved, and I do not see that changing at all in years to come. My parish has people who drive 45 minutes or more to attend and who drive their children to RE there as well on Wednesdays - 45 minutes or more! As part of my volunteering, I have to prepare mailings from the parish occasionally, and there are something like 45 different zip codes that get mailings.

Many of my neighbors attend there. The church I attend is physically closer to me than my “geographic parish”. I am literally 5 minutes from there. The other one, I have to cross a freeway, go through several lights, and it takes about 20 minutes to get to.

I have NEVER heard the priests talk about “geographic parishes”.

Please, I’m not trying to be argumentative or even say *you *are doing anything wrong, that is not my place. But I feel I must elaborate on the sad story of this woman. She got alzheimers and was locked away for 20 years before she died. Not a single parishioner from where she had been so active had any idea she was even in there; and not a single parishioner at her location had any idea she was even Catholic, let alone someone who had given every bit of herself to the church when she was able.

It’s really not a big deal to talk to one’s pastor about these things if you have any doubt.

-Carol

 

[Bob_Aliano]

If the Church expects us to respect parish boundaries then the Church must respect our right to a Liturgically proper and spiritually fulfilling Mass. When a parish violates our right to a proper Liturgy it abrogates it’s right to demand us as parishioners simply because of where we had the fortune or misfortune to reside. Since when is residence a consideration to our quest for salvation? Are we to submit ourselves to slipshod, even abusive Liturgical practices just to satisfy some archaic rule? No thank you and if a parish I have supported for 25 years decides I’m not worth it’s time in the event of a necessary sacrament then I expect those priests can answer for it at the proper time.

 

[InspiritCarol]

If the Church expects us to respect parish boundaries then the Church must respect our right to a Liturgically proper and spiritually fulfilling Mass. When a parish violates our right to a proper Liturgy it abrogates it’s right to demand us as parishioners simply because of where we had the fortune or misfortune to reside. Since when is residence a consideration to our quest for salvation? Are we to submit ourselves to slipshod, even abusive Liturgical practices just to satisfy some archaic rule? No thank you and if a parish I have supported for 25 years decides I’m not worth it’s time in the event of a necessary sacrament then I expect those priests can answer for it at the proper time.

That’s the point, if you just leave:
-There is no way for your parish to read your mind and know why you are gone
-You are abandoning the other parishioners, especially the ones who don’t know any better, to the whims of the world

If you stay, or at least seek out your Pastor for permission to go
-He is informed of his “offenses”
-He is informed that what he does matters to people
-You demonstrate a willingness and obedience to the overall heirarchy

Though I can not imagine a Pastor demanding that you remain when things just don’t work out; at least this way you give him an opportunity to fix things.

This is not an easy thing we are being asked to endure; but it is for the greater good of the body if we communicate.

 

[TrueLight]

…d who will or will not be candidates for sacraments. That also has not changed.

No priest has told me anything like this. I’m getting confirmed and no one has told me, you must go to your local parish (not sure where that is) and get permission.

In fact, I’m getting confirmed outside of the parish where I am registered (which is not my local parish) and I did ask that priest for permission to do that.