Augustine, slavery, and whipping

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You can just say that Society is subjective and inconstant. I don’t know what Augustine meant by his words since I don’t know much about the disciplines of that era.
 
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I have answered many of your questions answer mine please. Was Augustine wrong?
 
I’ve asked several times now. Could anyone provide arguments for why corporal punishment is wrong?
 
theCardinalbird said:
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Alex337:
They are all morally wrong. And you keep straying into “at the time” apologism.
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Did you know that “at the time” St. Paul does not suggest that the Christian master free his slave in the first-century Roman empire, nor does he allow slaves to run away or revolt. This was because in the conditions of that society Christians could respect the dignity of slaves better by keeping them or by gradually freeing them. St. Peter Claver had to own slaves in order to guarantee their good treatment, for example.

Would you say that was wrong of them?
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I would say “it is immoral to keep slaves”. You? Would you happily nod and send a runaway slave back to their master?
 
OsculeturMeOsculo said:
I don’t know what Augustine meant by his words since I don’t know much about the disciplines of that era.
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If it is like the way the South treated slaves than I guess it would be wrong. But it might be like the way parents used to discipline their children and might be okay. I don’t know what types of whips they used or how hard they used to flog them.
 
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OsculeturMeOsculo said:
If it is like the way the South treated slaves than I guess it would be wrong. But it might be like the way parents used to discipline their children and might be okay. I don’t know what types of whips they used or how hard they used to flog them.
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I really need to make sure I’m understanding you. Are you saying that if people didn’t whip their slaves too hard then it’s ok?
 
Alex337 said:
I’m doing so now. And so did you earlier when you said slavery was wrong.
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Yes, but think of the dignity of that person which would be guaranteed by the Christian who would protect him or her.
 
Have you constructed an argument yet for why corporal punishment is inherently wrong?

Many people reject that view, so you should try to justify it.
 
People used to hit children with belts and rulers so it might be like that and it could be okay if that’s how it was. You can slap someone and not get into to much trouble if it didn’t hurt that much so there seems to be a standard on pain. I am trying to not use stereotypes when it comes to things. Pain is also subjected to the physical state.
 
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Alex337 said:
The dignity of the slave that was sent back to their master after having tried to flee?
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That slave sent back to a Christian master would be guaranteed his or her dignity compared to fleeing and finding another master who would not respect it. These slaves would retain their dignity and some would be gradually freed. That is better then what others would probably give to a slave.
 
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theCardinalbird said:
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Alex337:
The dignity of the slave that was sent back to their master after having tried to flee?
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That slave sent back to a Christian master would be guaranteed his or her dignity compared to fleeing and finding another master who would not respect it. These slaves would retain their dignity and some would be gradually freed. That is better then what others would probably give to a slave
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Ah, but that ruling says all slaves should not rebel. You’ll be sending slaves back to non Christians, friend.

And no, a Christian master does not guarantee dignity. They may well beat their slaves like Augustine, which you have already said is immoral.
 
OsculeturMeOsculo said:
People used to hit children with belts and rulers so it might be like that and it could be okay if that’s how it was. You can slap someone and not get into to much trouble if it didn’t hurt that much so there seems to be a standard on pain. I am trying to not use stereotypes when it comes to things. Pain is also subjected to the physical state
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I can’t believe I am having to tell you this I really can’t. No no no no no. Slavery is wrong. Beating is wrong. These are elementary things. The church would not stand behind you on this. I feel sorry for you I truly do. This will be my last reply.
 
Alex337 said:
And no, a Christian master does not guarantee dignity. They may well beat their slaves like Augustine, which you have already said is immoral.
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In epistle 10*, addressed to Alipius, the bishop of Thagaste, Augustine brings to Alipius’s attention his concerns regarding the activities of slave dealers in his region. As Augustine explains, these “businessmen” are “draining Africa of much of its human population and transferring their ‘merchandise’ to the provinces across the sea.”[1] These traders and their hired thugs preyed upon the poorest of Roman citizens, kidnapping them and then selling them as slaves.[2] As he emphasizes throughout the letter, the situation at Hippo Regius had become increasingly violent. With the most vulnerable terrorized, and receiving little or no protection from Roman officials, they turned to the church for help.

In the midst of this violence, Augustine and his church intervened. Not only did Augustine investigate Roman law in order to find potential loopholes to help put an end to this criminal activity,[3] but he and his church actually physically rescued captives from slave ships and hid them away—actions which put their own lives at risk. Augustine recounts to Bishop Alipius one such rescue mission, in which over one hundred individuals captured by Galatian merchants were rescued by parishioners from Augustine’s church.[4]
There was not lacking a faithful Christian who, knowing our custom in missions of mercy of this kind, made this known to the church. Immediately, partially from the ship in which they had already been loaded, partially from the spot where they had been hidden prior to boarding, about 120 people were freed by our people […] Your Holy Prudence can imagine how much similar trafficking in unfortunate souls goes on in other coastal areas, if at Hippo Regius, where in God’s mercy, the great vigilance of the church is on the watch so that poor people can be freed from captivity of this sort and these people who carry on such a trade, though far from suffering from the severity of this law, are nevertheless punished, at least by the loss of the money they originally spent, so great is the greed of these people.[5]

cont’d
 
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