Australians Say ‘Yes’ to Same-Sex Marriage, Clearing Path for Legalization

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Me too. And they ought not be presumptively sexual - eg they should admit siblings etc.
 
Rau said:
If one is determined to live chastely, why does one need to be public about one’s sexual attractions?
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No one needs to come out. But what if they need help or support in dealing with their attractions? I know when I was in the closet I was suffering on the inside because I was combating lust and the will to find a boyfriend. My parents had no idea what was going on with me, neither did my friends. Sometimes you need people to support you with these attractions. When I came out I felt a lot better. A burden was removed and I began to find support for living a chaste life.

This may not be the reason for why everyone comes out. But sometimes you want to and sometimes it’s for the better
 
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Joe1 said:
No one needs to come out. But what if they need help or support in dealing with their attractions? I know when I was in the closet I was suffering on the inside because I was combating lust and the will to find a boyfriend. My parents had no idea what was going on with me, neither did my friends. Sometimes you need people to support you with these attractions.
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Yes, I agree entirely. Confiding in parents or a close friend is one thing. The public pronouncements of celebrities another.
 
Joe1 said:
That’s cruelty to the innocent! Yes gay marriage is sinful and should be condemned. But having innocent people be demonized, ostracised, and depressed for the sake of preventing a vote seems horrific. How will these same sex attracted people live in society? What did they ever do to deserve this?
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Nothing, but I don’t think you’re going to be able to condemn gay marriage and win majority support without demonizing homosexuals. That seems to be the reality.
 
Rau said:
To a degree it is true that, in the course of rejecting SSM, the sexual behaviour is rejected, but not the persons.
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Without rejecting the persons, you won’t be able to win majority support to condemn gay marriage. That’s what going on now. Young people aren’t exposed to ideas that gays are these horrible people and they are now supporting the idea that they should be able to get married like everyone else, because they aren’t horrible people.

It’s impossible for the vast majority of the people to distinguish between condemning the behavior but not the persons.
 
Jig_Saw said:
I don’t think you’re going to be able to condemn gay marriage and win majority support without demonizing homosexuals.
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Certainly proponents of SSM want opposition to it to be regarded that way. That is part of their spin.
 
Jig_Saw said:
Young people aren’t exposed to ideas that gays are these horrible people and they are now supporting the idea that they should be able to get married like everyone else, because they aren’t horrible people.
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There is no connection, real, imagined or asserted (by pro or anti SSM proponents) between being a horrible person and being not able to get married. Marriage is a sexual relationship which rather strongly suggests that marriage is only relevant for man+woman, don’t you think?
 
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Rau said:
Certainly proponents of SSM want opposition to it to be regarded that way. That is part of their spin.
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It’s not really spin. That’s how most people I knew felt about homosexuals growing up. That’s why I think there is such a difference in the point of view of young and older people on the matter.
 
Rau said:
There is no connection, real, imagined or asserted (by pro or anti SSM proponents) between being a horrible person and being not able to get married. Marriage is a sexual relationship which rather strongly suggests that marriage is only relevant for man+woman, don’t you think?
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No, you aren’t really seeing my point. For the vast majority of people, their opposition to SSM is a result of hatred of the homosexual. Stop hating them and then you lose the opposition to SSM.
 
Jig_Saw said:
For the vast majority of people, their opposition to SSM is a result of hatred of the homosexual. Stop hating them and then you lose the opposition to SSM.
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You’ve repeated that assertion many times. Let’s say 40% of western voters do not support SSM. From this you conclude that most of the 40% are haters of persons who experience attraction to the same sex. And further, they seek to vindictively deny those people marriage because they hate them. Baloney.
 
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Jig_Saw said:
Mostly through culture, I figure.
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I guess. I’m happy that society doesn’t hate people who experience this attraction. What I hate is that SSM is seen as something good
 
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Rau said:
You’ve repeated that assertion many times. Let’s say 40% of western voters do not support SSM. From this you conclude that most of the 40% are haters of persons who experience attraction to the same sex. And further, they seek to vindictively deny those people marriage because they hate them. Baloney
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No, I would say if 60% of western voters do not support SSM, then a large portion of those voters are haters of the persons who experience attraction to the same sex and seek to vindictively deny those people marriage because they hate them. Because there is a smaller portion of this group now, it is now 40% of western voters that oppose SSM and SSM passes votes like this.
 
Your post, attributing the views of others on SSM to “hatred” of other people is itself a form of hate speech.
 
Rau said:
Your post, attributing the views of others on SSM to “hatred” of other people is itself a form of hate speech.
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My post is an accurate depiction of what’s changed in the last twenty years and why SSM couldn’t pass in 1997 and easily passes in 2017.
 
Jig_Saw said:
Obviously. Can you come up with a more plausible explanation?
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Your statements were made as though they were established statistical fact, rather than merely your opinion. I claim to have no other basis for my views than personal opinion, and I see you now concede the same regarding your own.

Evidently, you see a hate-filled society now and an overwhelmingly hate-filled society 20 years ago. I look at myself, my friends, my family - opinions are diverse, but of those (incl me) who would oppose SSM, we feel no hate - but hold to the view that marriage is evidently appropriate solely for man+woman. IMO, that is a more common circumstance than “hatred” of others.

Why are many more sympathetic to the desires of some for SSM now than in the past. I can only guess:
  • many popular celebrities have made their situation public and have influenced opinions;
  • popular media have promoted TV programs featuring homosexual relationships (typically light-hearted comedies), just as has been the case with “normalisation” of sexual relations during dating in the media, which is also far more accepted these days than in the past - and curiously, I don’t recall a change in hatred levels toward the young being cited to explain that;
  • the general weakening of marriage as a “special” institution;
  • there is a general sociological trend to favour individual freedoms and a dread of being labelled “discriminatory”, even for just cause;
  • the general lessening of religious commitment, noting in many cases, moral principles are often developed or learned from a religious source;
You may see explicit or latent “hate” in the majority of those who think SSM is a mistake. I see it in a very small minority.
 
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