Authority of the Church

[elts1956]

If you understood that the Church did have authority over you, then you wouldn’t be Protestant, which requires by definition either rebellion or a certain ignorance. The original Protestants for the most part understood but rebelled, and their generations to follow mostly just don’t understand, but truth is never dependent on what anyone, Protestant or Catholic, understands to be true. Truth is set by divine action alone. By virtue of their common baptism, they are under the Pope’s authority, it’s just not a practical authority since they refuse to follow his guidance qua authority figure. Also, despite being under his authority, it’s not necessarily a culpable rebellion for modern Protestants, who simply grew up taking the faith of their fathers. Again, refer to the Catechism/Encyclopedia paragraphs already cited.

There’s no easy way to tell it. You can coax, you can chide, you can apply all the butter in the world. Believe me, I’ve tried numerous ways and got chastised no matter what I try.

When the Holy Spirit feels someone is ready to join the Catholic Church, then they will join. Not because I’ve chosen “just the right words”, because just the right words is different for everyone seeking answers.

In the long run, I can resent my parents for all the mistakes they made in raising me, but it wouldn’t change the fact that they are my parents. Jesus built a Church. He gave that Church authority.

Then, after 16 centuries, several children ran away from their Mother because they didn’t like the way She was raising them. She’s still their Mother. It would break my father’s heart if I rejected my Mother. I think Jesus feels the same way about all the dissension in the Church.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[onetimeposter]

Then, after 16 centuries, several children ran away from their Mother because they didn’t like the way She was raising them. She’s still their Mother. It would break my father’s heart if I rejected my Mother. I think Jesus feels the same way about all the dissension in the Church.

What if the children didn’t believe they had a good mother and believed they would be better off on their own.

Would it be better for the children to remain with their mother, stunted in growth, resentful, angry and bitter.

Or leave home, blaze their own trail and find exactly what it is they were looking for all along?

You tell me…I know my answer, the latter.

 

[Old_Scholar]

For the first 400 years after Christ, each church was independent of the others and there was no “one church” or group that had authority over any other.

At the Council of Nicæa in 325, Constantine called the council as emperor of Rome. Not the leader of the church.

This was not changed until the 5th century when Rome claimed authority over all churches.

Strange how everything changed when Rome took over isn’t it!

 

[Pixie_Dust]

For the first 400 years after Christ, each church was independent of the others and there was no “one church” or group that had authority over any other.

At the Council of Nicæa in 325, Constantine called the council as emperor of Rome. Not the leader of the church.

This was not changed until the 5th century when Rome claimed authority over all churches.

Strange how everything changed when Rome took over isn’t it!

Very funny, OS! What a kidder…

 

[elts1956]

What if the children didn’t believe they had a good mother and believed they would be better off on their own.

Would it be better for the children to remain with their mother, stunted in growth, resentful, angry and bitter.

Or leave home, blaze their own trail and find exactly what it is they were looking for all along?

You tell me…I know my answer, the latter.

Depends on what you mean by growth. One can grow within the Catholic Church also.

Sounds like an adolescent raving and ranting. I should know. I have been there. And guess what, I have come full circle, back to Mom.

 

[NotWorthy]

What if the children didn’t believe they had a good mother and believed they would be better off on their own.

Would it be better for the children to remain with their mother, stunted in growth, resentful, angry and bitter.

Or leave home, blaze their own trail and find exactly what it is they were looking for all along?

You tell me…I know my answer, the latter.

Yeah, I’m sure that’s exactly what Satan wanted.

You assume the children our better off without their mother. I think a unified Church is far stronger than the 1000’s that are around today.

 

[anon52328184]

i was just recently confirmed into the Catholic church from the episcopal church. they recognized my baptism in the episcopal church, but not my confirmation. so i had to take classes, not the full RCIA, and renewed my baptismal vows and was confirmed.
so i never thought about it whether the Catholic church has authority over all baptized Christians. i didn’t think it did, but i don’t know for sure.

 

[onetimeposter]

Yeah, I’m sure that’s exactly what Satan wanted.

You assume the children our better off without their mother. I think a unified Church is far stronger than the 1000’s that are around today.

You’ve avoided my question entirely. Which would have been the better choice?

 

[po18guy]

Outside the Church there is no salvation…is to be attributed only to Catholics only…not protestants.

A statement like that, well that ought to keep the pews filled! No?

You pretend that there is another church. Best of luck.

 

[po18guy]

What if the children didn’t believe they had a good mother and believed they would be better off on their own.

Would it be better for the children to remain with their mother, stunted in growth, resentful, angry and bitter.

Or leave home, blaze their own trail and find exactly what it is they were looking for all along?

You tell me…I know my answer, the latter.

Suppose the children didn’t like the captain of the big ship, which is sailing to Heaven. They built rafts, jump ship and set out on their own. Now, they just might cross the ocean on their rafts. They risk everything without knowing they will arrive safely, if at all. They would be far better off denying themselves, taking up their crosses daily and remaining on the big ship.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Tonks40]

You’ve avoided my question entirely. Which would have been the better choice?

You posed your questions with a built-in assumption, which is that it’s better for someone to leave their mother than be stifled by her. Just like you’ve placed the assumption that Christians cannot grow under the authority and guidance of the Church.

In all reality, you really can’t tell if someone’s growth will be stunted by their mother, can you. Sure there are instances where grown adult children have CHOSEN to stay with their parents…but that was by their own CHOICE.

So, your question in relation to the authority of the Church is moot. Parents will always have authority over their children, whether they like it or not, just like the Pope will have authority - granted by Christ - over all Christians.

It’s just whether or not you want to be subject to that authority.

 

[anon52328184]

this seems like a touchy subject.

 

[onetimeposter]

You pretend that there is another church. Best of luck.

The people are the Church, at least that’s what I think…however a person experiences God is fine with me.

Monarchical Theism doesn’t work for me, but if it works for you, that’s a very good thing indeed.

 

[onetimeposter]

the Pope will have authority - granted by Christ - over all Christians.

The Pope seems like a very nice man, he is an intellectual and clearly he is a Holy man.

He does not have any authority over me or any choices I make.

 

[anon52328184]

i’m confused on who is on which side, what is monarchtic theism?

i am a new Catholic so i have not had to defend an argument on Church authority yet. i came from the episcopal where we have the archbishop of canterbury and i definitely didn’t want him over me, but i feel differently about the Pope.

 

[onetimeposter]

i’m confused on who is on which side, what is monarchtic theism?

i am a new Catholic so i have not had to defend an argument on Church authority yet. i came from the episcopal where we have the archbishop of canterbury and i definitely didn’t want him over me, but i feel differently about the Pope.

Monarchical Theism is a belief or vision of God as a King or Judge. This link provides a very good explanation, start reading at the bottom of page 63.

books.google.ca/books?id=LgTQVQ3DI-wC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=monarchical++model+of+god&source=web&ots=2CkOHlFM_5&sig=W9uFSyuYewQbldRiDxYVUGSzjkI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA62,M1

 

[NotWorthy]

You’ve avoided my question entirely. Which would have been the better choice?

When is running away ever the right choice?

When is making Satan happy ever the right choice?

I thought I spoke rather plainly what I thought. Christ built one Church and wishes Her to remain One.

 

[NotWorthy]

The people are the Church, at least that’s what I think…however a person experiences God is fine with me.

Monarchical Theism doesn’t work for me, but if it works for you, that’s a very good thing indeed.

Well, it works for Christ. So whether it works for me is irrelevant.

If it works for Christ, than it works for me.

 

[NotWorthy]

Monarchical Theism is a belief or vision of God as a King or Judge. This link provides a very good explanation, start reading at the bottom of page 63.

Monarchical Theism is the ignoring of Scriptures.

"All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.*** 19 ****** Go, therefore***, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,*** 20 ****** teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you***. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.*** 19 ****** I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven.***Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. "

(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you."*** 22 *** And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit.*** 23 *** Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

 

[NotWorthy]

For the first 400 years after Christ, each church was independent of the others and there was no “one church” or group that had authority over any other.

At the Council of Nicæa in 325, Constantine called the council as emperor of Rome. Not the leader of the church.

This was not changed until the 5th century when Rome claimed authority over all churches.

Strange how everything changed when Rome took over isn’t it!

Evidently, OS, you haven’t studied Pope Victor or Pope Clement very much.