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heisenburg
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allischalmers …
I’m assuming you therefore believe in the Trail of Blood
In Christ
I’m assuming you therefore believe in the Trail of Blood
In Christ
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Funny, I used to think that, too. I also used to think the Trail of Blood was an accurate portrayal of church history. Until I actually looked up the beliefs and practices of some of those folks that JM Carroll “linked” to the Baptists.
My, oh my. If someone tried some of that stuff in a Baptist church today he’d be shunned.And then I read some writings from the first century church - you know, the fellows who sat at the apostles’ feet? The apostles, whom Jesus breathed upon and gave His Spirit to so that they would remember everything He taught them, even the stuff that never got recorded in Scripture…They definitely weren’t Baptist.
See also Losing the Trail and Ancient Baptists and other Myths.
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allischalmers
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I do not agree with the book “Trail of Blood” . I have read some other books on Baptist history by real historians.
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Roger_Wissinger
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Who’s Jerry Springer? Is he Baptist? No true historian believes that the Baptist Church started in the first century. Look, I spelled it correctly. And has far has Scott Hahn…You couldn’t handle DOCTOR Scott Hahn.:coffeeread:
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allischalmers
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Regular Baptist Churches teach it just as Jesus and the apostle taught it. Nothing added and nothing taken away.
It was after the first and second centuray that the truth started to get lost and there we have the Catholic Chruch.
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Pixie_Dust
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RBCs don’t use the entire NT?
If “the truth started to get lost” then that means Jesus was a liar. I don’t think so. :tsktsk:
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allischalmers
Guest
I did not say the these historians of the books I have read believed the Baptist Church started in the first century. I said they were true historians that wrote Baptist history.
You are right I could not handle Dr. Scott Hahn but I know some very knowledgable Baptist that could change his mind about being Catholic.
I thought Jerry Springer was the pope
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Pixie_Dust
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You’re killin’ me.No, he’s the host of America’s Got Talent. I don’t even think he goes to church.
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allischalmers
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Explain PleaseRBCs don’t use the entire NT?
The truth was lost in the RCC which is why there was the reformation
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Roger_Wissinger
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Wow, never heard that one. Just kidding. So, the Fathers of the Church, the ones that were taught by the disciples, just started making things up? Where did you get your information? Where did you read this? So, when they(Catholics) started putting the bible together, they got it all wrong?
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DixiesFinest
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Interestingly enough, most of what the early “reformers” taught was contrary to Baptists today. By the way, the first and second century Christians were Catholic. Did you even look at the quotes I posted? They are from the first and second centuries, when supposedly everyone was a Baptist.
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Contarini
Guest
Actually I believe that’s the reason there are so few of them. Allischalmers can correct me, but I think the GARBC is a largely Northern phenomenon, in opposition to the more liberal American Baptists. I live in Indiana and there’s a GARBC congregation just down the road.
Admittedly, Indiana is one of the suspenders of the Bible belt!
Edwin
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Roger_Wissinger
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Ok, ok, stop. You’re making me laugh.
I think if you started reading Dr. Scott Hahn you’d become Catholic. Oh, I can hear you now. “NEVER” So, I challege you to read some of his work. He was anti-Catholic and he also said he’d never be Catholic. Start with “Rome Sweet Home”. It’s a easy 2 day read. You have time, I see your retired. No Baptist could change Dr. Hahn’s mind about the Catholic Church. You know why? One word “TRUTH”
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Pixie_Dust
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Jesus didn’t have the NT to teach from and He never said, “Write all this stuff down, will ya?” His apostles penned it years after His ascension and even while they were alive the churches they led didn’t have all of the Gospels or all of the epistles. Some of them even had other epistles that they read regularly, like the one that Clement wrote to the Corinthians that very nearly made the canon of Scripture. The Bible does not list the books that are supposed to be in the Bible. We have to look to a non-Biblical source to tell us which books are inspired of God and which are not. The Bible did not become officially set until more than 350 years after Christ’s death and resurrection, and there was no Protestant Bible for another 1100+ years after that.** For the first 350 years of Christianity, they did not have the complete NT.** There were quite a few other books that people thought should be in NT Scripture, such as The Acts of Peter, Acts of Paul, Acts of John, Apocalypse of Peter, the Acts of Andrew, The Acts of Thomas, the Apocalypse of Paul, the Gospel of Thomas, etc… Some books IN the NT were disputed such as James, Hebrews, 2 Peter, and Revelation.
382 AD - Synod of Rome declared the canon of Scripture, 46 OT books, 27 NT books
393 AD - Council of Hippo declared the canon, which was the exact same list as Synod of Rome
397 AD - Council of Carthage ratified the canon decision made by those 2 councils
The decisions of these councils were then ratified by the Pope. The Catholic Church determined that there were 46 OT Books, and 27 NT Books. Martin Luther (1100 years later) threw out 7 OT books on his own authority, (the RCC did NOT add these 7 books) which is where we got the Protestant Bible. The first KJV printed in 1611 had 46 OT books in it.
Without the testimony of the Church, we would not have the Bible, and even if we had the Bible, we would have no way to know which books are inspired. **Every Christian today who accepts the 27 books of the NT agrees w/Catholics regarding the authority of the Church to determine what is inspired Scripture and what is not. **
I’m afraid you’re believing a lie, my friend. Reform Came Before the Reformation.
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allischalmers
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Some of the early church fathers could not even agree with each other. What the early church father wrote was not inspired so we have the problem error.Wow, never it that one. Just kidding. So, the Fathers of the Church, the ones that were taught by the disciples, just started making things up? Where did you get your information? Where did you read this? So, when they(Catholics) started putting the bible together, they got it all wrong?
the other day I caught a fish this long /------/ I told my brother and he told my other brother that I caught a fish this long /---------------/
The only truth that we have is the written Word Of God. God’s Word does not change but men have changed the meaning of God’s word
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Pixie_Dust
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How do you know that what the Early Church Fathers wrote was not inspired?
Which is why we now have people who encourage you to ‘ask Jesus into your heart,’ and they say that the Lord’s Supper is symbolic, and they tell you that baptism is “an outward sign of an inward change” though you’ll find NONE of these teachings in Scripture.
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Roger_Wissinger
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Thank you Pixie Dust. I don’t have time to write all that stuff.
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allischalmers
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It was God the determine what was inspired, it was God that determined what books where canon.
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dawgfan
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Yeah, I kind of got the gist of that when I was asking some SBC friends yesterday and they were like …“there’s… NORTHERN… baptists…”
I wonder if “John the” was a Northern or Southern Baptist.
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Pixie_Dust
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Where does the Bible say that?
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