Baby Boomers and the TLM

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The Angelus bells are still rung on national TV in Ireland (6pm). The news is immediately afterwards at 6.01pm. The cathedral in my mother’s parish (Cobh, Co. Cork) still ring the Angelus bells at noon and 6pm every day.

Gearoidin
My ancestors came from Cobh in Cork and from Limerick. I am their son still here in Catholic south Louisiana. I grew up with these hymns (except for the Gaelic). French and Spanish were still first languages here when my family came. And then there was this German parish right across the street…Oh, and I’m German too…

The real truth is that the Irish had a profound influence upon Catholicism in the US. I read that most of our priests before VII in the USA were of Irish ancestry. Makes perfect sense to me.
 
To me there is a big difference in longing for a reverent Mass instead of saying that the TLM is the only way to have a reverent Mass. There is also a big difference in wanting to have a Mass in Latin instead of saying that the TLM is the answer to the creative wording in a vernacular Mass. Maybe I can say that because I have the privilege of assisting to very reverent (smells and bells) NO masses in vernacular and Latin. I am quite partial to Latin for a non liturgical reason. It reminds me of when I was a kid. I was a happy kid, life was easy and good to me.
I am a member of a perfectly reverent NO cathedral parish and I am happy. But something is still missing. I’m trying to get a hold on what it is. I have a good idea of what it is but I’m just not ready to articulate it. I think that there are others like me out there and I’m glad to talk with them.
 
I was a little child during the '60s, and only became Catholic in '96, so the NO Mass is all I know. I’ve never seen the TLM, but I’ve always wanted to see one (AFAIK, the nearest one is in Orlando, over two hours away). The NO Mass is ‘Ok’ but some things leave a bit to be desired- alot of the hymns are lame, even Protestant, and we had a pianist- now gone- who felt the need to emulate Jerry Lee Lewis during the Alleluia; Altar servers -mostly girls- wearing sneakers and flip flops (and people in general dressing like slobs). I also notice that Eucharistic Prayer I (the longer one which mentions “the Holy Catholic Church” and asks “to save us from final damnation”) is hardly ever used (I think I’ve heard it once). I’m a lector at my church, which is something I enjoy doing, but I think if a TLM was available I’d probably give it up in a minute.
Amen Robert!
 
I am a member of a perfectly reverent NO cathedral parish and I am happy. But something is still missing. I’m trying to get a hold on what it is. I have a good idea of what it is but I’m just not ready to articulate it. I think that there are others like me out there and I’m glad to talk with them.
Code:
Maybe it felt like we were singing with the angels and the saints…

Maybe there was more mysticism in our younger days than there is now…where, now, everybody just talks in church, where everybody just runs past the Blessed Sacrament, etc, etc…

It just felt like there was a God present just by the actions of the people…we treated God like He was the owner of the House and not the Guest…
 
I am a member of a perfectly reverent NO cathedral parish and I am happy. But something is still missing. I’m trying to get a hold on what it is. I have a good idea of what it is but I’m just not ready to articulate it. I think that there are others like me out there and I’m glad to talk with them.
I think what is missing is a real reverent world where to live in before and after Mass. That it is what really bothers me the most. I bring a lot of feelings and emotions into the Church that distract me from the most important event of my life. The only time when I emotionally detach myself from the outside world is when I receive Communion.
 
Maybe it felt like we were singing with the angels and the saints…

Maybe there was more mysticism in our younger days than there is now…where, now, everybody just talks in church, where everybody just runs past the Blessed Sacrament, etc, etc…

It just felt like there was a God present just by the actions of the people…we treated God like He was the owner of the House and not the Guest…
Sho, that’s twice today you have invoked mysticism and I’m sure that that is a big part of what I’m missing. Certainly none of us would have gabbed in church which is so common now. When we entered the holy space of the Most High - BAM! We were in church before the Blessed Sacrament and BAM! you didn’t open your mouth. So that’s certainly part of equation.

How many people do you see genuflecting before going into a pew or after exiting a pew? Do people even understand why we do this?
 
I think what is missing is a real reverent world where to live in before and after Mass. That it is what really bothers me the most. I bring a lot of feelings and emotions into the Church that distract me from the most important event of my life. The only time when I emotionally detach myself from the outside world is when I receive Communion.
I think Shosahana’s observations about the mystic are part of it. I can go to a TLM and I immediately drop into another world, another time…I still can’t really articulate it. I felt it when I was not attending Mass in the mid 70s and I went to the Eastern Orthodox Holy Saturday liturgy. This would have been in 1976 and I had not attended Mass in 5 years. Could it be the Presence of God?

Don’t flame me folks. I’m still just trying to come to grips with a concept. I need to pray. I feel I’m being called to the Mass of my childhood. I’ve posted it before, Father has asked me to be a part of a Gregorian choir. If the universal indult is proclaimed, and I can sing in a Gregorian choir? I’ll be there with bells on.
 
Don’t flame me folks. I’m still just trying to come to grips with a concept. I need to pray. I feel I’m being called to the Mass of my childhood. I’ve posted it before, Father has asked me to be a part of a Gregorian choir. If the universal indult is proclaimed, and I can sing in a Gregorian choir? I’ll be there with bells on.
What you say, at least to me, is the most natural thing. We all try to go back to the special places in our lives. You are not forcing anyone to conform with your spirituality.
 
I can hear them and I bet I could sing them with a little accompaniment. Our Lady of Perpetual Help is a favorite of mine. I also remember First Fridays when all the students went to Mass and we had bacon, scrambled eggs and cinnamon rolls afterward. Oh, sweet childhood.
Are you sure you had Bacon with those scrambled eggs and cinnamon rolls on a First Friday? I may be only 48 but I remember no meat on Fridays all year - I even somewhat remember when it was mistakenly said to have ended!

I barely remember the Latin Mass - it was boring to me but you must remember I was only about 8 or 9 when V2 was promulgated. I did attend one Indult TLM and found it to be no less boring and not any more reverent than the NO Mass I had attended the week before - just some people there who gave me dirty looks because I did not know that we had to wear a headcovering, or I wasn’t dressed modestly enough or something (no one talked to me after Mass so I don’t know why I got the funny looks). I may have been wearing a dress with short sleeves, I definelty didn’t cover my head - we were having Mass in my regular Church and there was nothing in the literature about a dress code or anything that I had gotten prior to going. Oh, I did bring my Missal with me so I could try and follow along.

My only other experience with TLM’ers (I hope that is okay to use this term) is mostly on the internet and I have found them to be just like everyone else, there are some who are adamant that I am not attending a real Mass (and thus not meeting my Sunday Obligation so I am in mortal sin) by going to the NO all the way to those like our OP who has a very reverant NO he attends and just can’t p(name removed by moderator)oint why he still prefers the TLM.

Brenda V.
 
Oh Mary we crown thee with blossoms today
Queen of the angels, Queen of the May…

Listen to it here:

amazon.com/Faith-Our-Fathers-Classic-Religious/dp/B000005BWO/sr=1-4/qid=1169413881/ref=sr_1_4/102-8267546-7420144?ie=UTF8&s=music

Soundtrack to my childhood.

Volume II

amazon.com/Faith-Our-Fathers-Vol-2/dp/B000005BWR/sr=1-5/qid=1169414008/ref=sr_1_5/102-8267546-7420144?ie=UTF8&s=music

I have both CDs. When was the last time you heard some of these hymns sung at your local parish. Soundtrack to my childhood. Whoah!

With the exception of the Gaelic hymns most of these should be familiar to most of us.
I have both of those - but on cassettes. Bought them in 1996 or 1997. I forgot I had them and just got them out again. I guess I’d better get them on cd!

I was born in 1955 and made my first communion in 1963. I remember most of those songs. I remember the May Crownings and the beautiful men’s choir. At St. Joe’s Catholic School, we had Christmas pageants and every grade did something special. Of course, the boys all dressed in bathrobes as shepherds and the girls got to be angels for the Nativity! Almost everybody in our neighborhood was Catholic, so we all went to the little mission church just up the hill from our house. What wonderful memories! I remember following the mass in my Little St. Joseph Missal that I got for First Communion. I knew exactly what was going on and was able to answer in Latin. I remember sitting next to my mother as she followed along in her missal. I felt quite grown up!

My 23 year old son was home on leave from the Navy for Christmas. My husband and I took him to his first-ever TLM for Christmas Eve Mass. He was stunned at the difference and couldn’t get over how reverent and beautiful it was. I admit, I was a bit nervous about what he would think. He called just recently and mentioned it again. He was really impressed.
 
I can hear them and I bet I could sing them with a little accompaniment. Our Lady of Perpetual Help is a favorite of mine. I also remember First Fridays when all the students went to Mass and we had bacon, scrambled eggs and cinnamon rolls afterward. Oh, sweet childhood.
How were you able to eat bacon on Friday?
 
How were you able to eat bacon on Friday?
Thanks for the correction. The only thing that really jogged my memory was the cinnamon rolls. And we did have scrambled eggs and milk. Being a proper church at the time, you are quite right, no bacon.
 
I would say the baby boomers are the largest group to abandon the Catholic faith at once since the Protestant reformation. Comparing baby boomers and their children to their parents generation you see Mass attendance go from 85% down to 25% weekly attendance. Out of my family since my granparents who were devout Irish Catholics who had five children and over 20 grandchildren, only myself and one of my cousins remains in the Catholic Church (as in practicing, many still call themselves Catholics but they’re at best ashes and palms Catholics). I honestly think this is not uncommon at all. Seeing that this mass abandonment came about after Vatican II and adopting protestant practices into our litrugy, I don’t think you can simply dismiss that. Where is the new evangelization? We have to evangelize to our own brothers and sisters to get them into Church.

Someone once said “many use statistics as a drunk uses a lampost… for support instead of illumination”, maybe I can be accused of that, but I think looking at what happened to the baby boomer generation and their children in regards to leaving the Catholic faith, the proof is in the pudding.
 
I would say the baby boomers are the largest group to abandon the Catholic faith at once since the Protestant reformation. Comparing baby boomers and their children to their parents generation you see Mass attendance go from 85% down to 25% weekly attendance. Out of my family since my granparents who were devout Irish Catholics who had five children and over 20 grandchildren, only myself and one of my cousins remains in the Catholic Church (as in practicing, many still call themselves Catholics but they’re at best ashes and palms Catholics). I honestly think this is not uncommon at all. Seeing that this mass abandonment came about after Vatican II and adopting protestant practices into our litrugy, I don’t think you can simply dismiss that. Where is the new evangelization? We have to evangelize to our own brothers and sisters to get them into Church.

Someone once said “many use statistics as a drunk uses a lampost… for support instead of illumination”, maybe I can be accused of that, but I think looking at what happened to the baby boomer generation and their children in regards to leaving the Catholic faith, the proof is in the pudding.
But how much of the abandonment of the Church by baby boomers can also be attributed to what was going on in the late 60’s/early 70’s culturally? Rock n’ roll was huge. Drugs were huge. Vietnam was huge. There was a lot of unrest with the young people who in a sense were rebelling against ALL authority … not just the Catholic Church.

My 3 older brothers gave my parents such agida during that time. I remember the fights about hair length, staying out late, the music playing in our house, the women … it was a rough time. My parents (and I’m sure this went on in many households) were clueless as to what they were dealing with and at a loss as how to deal with it.

And if we are going to talk statistics, in my experience the Catholics would be the stronger holdouts. My husband is Irish Catholic and out of 8 siblings with 20 children collectively all but four (sister with 3 children) are active in the Catholic Church. In my family, however, which is a Fundamentalist/Baptist background, it is a totally different story. Out of 7 children, only one sister and I go to church. And my sister became Episcopalian (she attends the church in VA that voted to succeed from the American church) and I converted to RC.

And for what it’s worth, my 81 year old father has been asking me a lot of questions about Catholicism. He just came up for a visit and asked to attend Mass with me. He says that he is drawn to the Catholic Church because no matter what, she sticks to her guns … not like many of the Protestant churches. So while some are upset about the changes within the Catholic Church there are people who are drawn towards the tradition of the Catholic Church. I guess it’s just how you look at it.
 
Our society nowadays does NOT have the sense of special occasions that we did say 40 years ago! For example: 40 years ago, few (to NONE!) places of business allowed employees to wear jeans to work–even on a casual Friday dress day! Do any of you remember how we used to dress up even to go to the bank? When I applied for my first mortgage in 1976, my husband and I dressed in our very best, and we sat in the office of the loan officer while he interrogated us about our finances and such. He even asked us if we had a lawn mower and snow shovels for this house we wanted to buy–he didn’t want us to buy a house, and then go into more debt for items that we would need to be good home owners. We had to wait three weeks to find out if we were approved for the loan–the directors had to meet to go over the various applications for home mortgages! Nowadays, you apply on line for a loan, and meet up with the loan officer when it’s a done deal!

My point here is that we live differently than we did years ago. Yet, the longing is still within some of us for that which seemingly was lost–or in the case of those who never experienced the Latin Mass, for that which they are seeking–a deep sense of the presence of God. Many feel they have found it in the TLM.

If the TLM satisfies your spiritual longing, then I rejoice with you!

I was born in 1952, so I have vivid memories of growing up in the pre-Vatican II Church. I attended a Catholic elementary school for 8 years (Sisters of Mercy), and in that time, I had a total of two lay teachers. My parish had a pastor and two assistants. Our Sunday Masses were at 6 AM, 7 AM, 8 AM,9:15 (the High Mass), and noon. There was a men’s choir and a boys’ choir (no female choir) and they sang Gregorian chant. I remember learning how to pronounce the responses in Latin and to sing the Gloria (not too difficult) and the Credo (VERY difficult for me, as I recall!).

In 1962, we were on vacation in Texas, and when we went to Mass on Sunday, there were liturgical innovations that I had never ever experienced! I think, in retrospect, that this was a ‘test’ parish for the proposed changes in the liturgy. What I remember is that a lay man read the epistle in English! I was thrilled! I hung on to every word–to hear the Word of God in my native language! Astonishing!!

I have warm fuzzies when I think of the TLM–the bells, the chanting, the genuflecting, bowing, etc… BUT, I do not miss it. I do not miss the --what it sounded to me–as mumbling–the private prayer exchange between the priest and the altar boys. High Masses were lovely–if the priest had a good singing voice. (When the priest couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket, it was sheer torture to listen to him struggle to stay on pitch!) I had a missal to follow along with the Mass (and I still have the same missal!). BUT, I wondered: did God only hear me in Latin?

I remember some Sundays when my class sang hymns throughout the Mass–we stopped at the sermon and consecration. In retrospect, that seems so irreverent! It was almost as if we were doing our own ‘thing’ while the priest and altar boys were doing their own ‘thing’!

During the daily Masses, people often went to confession. At the time, it seemed quite normal to do so. But, now, I look back on this and wonder: were we there at Mass to worship the Lord (witness the reenactment of the sacrifice at Calvary–as we were taught was the essence of the Mass!), or to do our own private devotions?

I think many of us who are not attracted to the TLM do not understand the longing that many have for the TLM. I have been to NO liturgies that were very reverent, and I have my share of memories of TLM (pre-Vatican II) Masses that were not necessarily reverent, but more of a reflection of the behavior that was expected of people at the time.
 
Petite: I don’t ever remember singing hymns through Mass. I do remember school Masses where those same Sisters of Mercy watched us eagle-eyed for squirming, slouching, or “don’t even think about it” whispering. They carried those “clickers” - those “cricket” noise makers. If you heard a “click” - look out.

Certainly times have changed. But I don’t think that a preference for the TLM is linked to societal behavior - certainly not with the young people of today who like it. And I do miss the genuflecting, bowing, and all the other little things we did then and most folks don’t do now. When was the last time at a NO Mass did you recite the Confiteor much less the Creed? I’m at a very reverent NO cathedral parish and I can’t recall ever reciting the Confiteor during the Penitential Rite and it has been since the early 80s. Couldn’t tell you how long it has been since we have said the Creed. I think there would be stunned silence if Father decided to use the Confiteor - how few would be able to recite it? My two sons, 25 and 22 couldn’t.

In 1992, my cathedral parish celebrated its 200th anniversary. We had the Cardinal Archbishop of Lyons, France; the Archbishop of Salamanca, Spain; the six bishops and archbishop of Louisiana; and retired bishops and archbishops who were associated with the parish. At the end of an entirely reverent NO Mass celebrated in English, French, and Spanish, the Cardinal Archbishop of Lyons dropped a bombshell -

He gave the apostolic blessing in…LATIN!

Adjutorium nostrum in nomini Domini…

In my choir of 25, only myself and four others knew the response. In the congregation, a scattered handfull…the response:

Qui faecit coelum et terram was …very obviously weak and most embarrasing. It was at this point that I realized what we had lost. It was only the folks of our generation who were able to respond. I found this profoundly sad and evidently so did our rector who afterwards released the ban on the choir singing Latin.

Latin was a unifying force. Societal change had nothing to do with use or not of Latin.
 
. When was the last time at a NO Mass did you recite the Confiteor much less the Creed?.
Last Sunday. We recite the Confiteor every Sunday at my Parish. I can’t remember when we didn’t. As for the Creed, we recite that one as well, right down to the proper bowing of the head (or genuflecting when the Liturgical season/Mass requires it) when we say “was concieved of the Virgin Mary and became man”.

Brenda V.
 
Last Sunday. We recite the Confiteor every Sunday at my Parish. I can’t remember when we didn’t. As for the Creed, we recite that one as well, right down to the proper bowing of the head (or genuflecting when the Liturgical season/Mass requires it) when we say “was concieved of the Virgin Mary and became man”.

Brenda V.
Holy guacamole, Batman! I’ve been to Masses in both New Orleans and Baton Rouge and haven’t heard it since the 80s or the Creed. Wow.
 
Holy guacamole, Batman! I’ve been to Masses in both New Orleans and Baton Rouge and haven’t heard it since the 80s or the Creed. Wow.
Well it’s not the old confetior you may be used to, it goes:

“I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and in what I have failed to do;
and I ask Blessed Mary, ever Virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.”

I recite this at my daily Mass Parish and my Sunday Parish as well as the Creed (on Sunday’s), I’ve never been to a Mass on Sunday when the Creed isn’t recited ever.
 
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