Baby Boomers and the TLM

[lak611]

Last Sunday. We recite the Confiteor every Sunday at my Parish. I can’t remember when we didn’t. As for the Creed, we recite that one as well, right down to the proper bowing of the head (or genuflecting when the Liturgical season/Mass requires it) when we say “was concieved of the Virgin Mary and became man”.

Brenda V.

The assistant priest always has us recite the Confiteor at Mass he says. The retired priest does as well. My pastor usually doesn’t so we get the Confiteor about 2/3 of the time.

I have never been to any Sunday Mass (or Saturday evening Vigil) that I remember that did not have the Creed

 

[brotherhrolf]

Well it’s not the old confetior you may be used to, it goes:

“I confess to almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have sinned through my own fault,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done,
and in what I have failed to do;
and I ask Blessed Mary, ever Virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.”

I recite this at my daily Mass Parish and my Sunday Parish as well as the Creed (on Sunday’s), I’ve never been to a Mass on Sunday when the Creed isn’t recited ever.

No, no…I know both Latin and English. I’m just amazed that it’s not being said down here or the Creed either. I wonder what’s going on.

 

[Ecce_homo_1]

No, no…I know both Latin and English. I’m just amazed that it’s not being said down here or the Creed either. I wonder what’s going on.

I don’t believe you can omit the Creed on a Sunday Mass only daily Mass. I could be wrong, but I think is a liturgical abuse. The confetior can always be skipped during the penitential rite, although I don’t see the point in skipping it.

 

[jimmie]

I have paid attention in my church - and the old hymns - (the best of them - there were some that were completely unsingable - there were some that the words were so convoluted it was hard to make sense of them) the best old hymns are sung so beautifully by the congregation - sung with their heart and mind and soul! But I would have to say that’s true for many of the newer “old songs” that have been around for 30 years or so (certainly post-Vatican II) like Here I Am Lord, On Eagle’s Wings, Be Not Afraid, Jerusalem My Destiny and my personal favorite, Taste and See. And there are new ones that we find every year - with words that resound in our hearts and melodies that lift our spirits to the heavens.

 

[Petite]

I respectfully disagree with you about the societal changes. I believe that THAT"S what lead in part to the liturgy to be changed–however you may characterize the change.

I don’t have my (1962)missal handy right now, but I believe I had read something in there that the purpose of the missals was precisely to give the laity a chance to participate more in the liturgy by giving them the Latin/English translations. I think that was part of the impetus to allow the liturgy in the vernacular–greater access for everyone.

When was the last time at a NO Mass did you recite the Confiteor much less the Creed?

We must do things differently up north!

At my NO parish, we recite the Creed EVERY Sunday–with the profound bow at the words “by the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.” There was an article in the Sunday bulletin reminding us that we should be doing this! (And my NO parish is rather liberal–FWIW!)

We do recite the Confiteor–not every Sunday, but I know in the last couple of months we did. FWIW: During Advent, the choir (of which I am a member) sang Agnus Dei (instead of the Lamb of God).

 

[Lucania]

We must do things differently up north!
At my NO parish, we recite the Creed EVERY Sunday–with the profound bow at the words “by the power of the Holy Spirit, he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.”

Well I’m in North Florida and every church in my Diocese that I’ve visited and 2 that I’ve been a member of says the Creed every Sunday. My present Church however is the only one where most everyone bows at the proper time.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I have paid attention in my church - and the old hymns - (the best of them - there were some that were completely unsingable - there were some that the words were so convoluted it was hard to make sense of them) the best old hymns are sung so beautifully by the congregation - sung with their heart and mind and soul! But I would have to say that’s true for many of the newer “old songs” that have been around for 30 years or so (certainly post-Vatican II) like Here I Am Lord, On Eagle’s Wings, Be Not Afraid, Jerusalem My Destiny and my personal favorite, Taste and See. And there are new ones that we find every year - with words that resound in our hearts and melodies that lift our spirits to the heavens.

 

[Gearoidin]

When was the last time at a NO Mass did you recite the Confiteor much less the Creed?

Last Sunday and every Sunday before that. We always say both. Everyone bows deeply at the correct places too.
Usually our priest chants most of the Mass, we always sing the Lord have Mercy, Gloria, and Agnus Dei with the organ. We don’t have guitar Masses although I heard the Spanish Mass and the English Mass do. Maybe I’m lucky…

Gearoidin

 

[brotherhrolf]

All of which tells me that my perfectly reverent NO cathedral parish is not as orthodox as it should be. Kinda gives you pause doesn’t it?

And everyone wonders why I yearn for the past. If my NO parish is the best that the diocese can offer and there are abuses…

I’m sitting here listening to the music on choraltreasure.org/

I long to sing such compositions within the context of a TLM.

 

[Shoshana]

When was the last time at a NO Mass did you recite the Confiteor much less the Creed? .

We have always said it…I do not remember it not being said. Our priest also says the Kyrie, and the Dominus Vobiscum…how blessed am I???:bounce:

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

I’m only a tiny bit older than brotherhrolf, so I also remember growing up with the Latin Mass. I used to nag my parents to get up early enough for the High Mass, which was at 6:45 AM! I remember the incense, huge numbers of altar servers, and the choir singing/chanting in Latin (all of which we have at my current NO parish, although we also sing a little in French, as well, but mostly in English).

I never saw the Latin as a stumbling block, as I had a missal with the English translation (still have it).

The change to the “new” Mass didn’t come as a shock to me, because I had gotten away from the church when I was a teenager, and was gone for a long time. I’m a revert, and there was a long period of time between TLM and NO for me – no overnight switch.

As far as reverence goes, I think people could be a little quieter before Mass, and I’d gladly get rid of all the cutesy-poo bad folk ditties (which, thankfully, we rarely sing in my choir), but I think my parish’s NO Mass is pretty reverent, and so is the one at the Cathedral where I sometimes attend Mass. I absolutely do not miss all the stiff, formal clothing people used to wear everywhere but their own homes – when I’m dressed like that, the clothes are all I can concentrate on.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I’m only a tiny bit older than brotherhrolf, so I also remember growing up with the Latin Mass. I used to nag my parents to get up early enough for the High Mass, which was at 6:45 AM! I remember the incense, huge numbers of altar servers, and the choir singing/chanting in Latin (all of which we have at my current NO parish, although we also sing a little in French, as well, but mostly in English).

I never saw the Latin as a stumbling block, as I had a missal with the English translation (still have it).

The change to the “new” Mass didn’t come as a shock to me, because I had gotten away from the church when I was a teenager, and was gone for a long time. I’m a revert, and there was a long period of time between TLM and NO for me – no overnight switch.

As far as reverence goes, I think people could be a little quieter before Mass, and I’d gladly get rid of all the cutesy-poo bad folk ditties (which, thankfully, we rarely sing in my choir), but I think my parish’s NO Mass is pretty reverent, and so is the one at the Cathedral where I sometimes attend Mass. I absolutely do not miss all the stiff, formal clothing people used to wear everywhere but their own homes – when I’m dressed like that, the clothes are all I can concentrate on.

No, me neither Carol Anne - Mass is not about what you wear or wether or not you have a hat or a mantilla on your head. I could care less about any of that. And hey, we sing in French down here too. Not about that either.

The Latin Mass unified Catholics across the globe. Doesn’t that count for anything?

 

[AJV]

Certainly times have changed. But I don’t think that a preference for the TLM is linked to societal behavior - certainly not with the young people of today who like it. And I do miss the genuflecting, bowing, and all the other little things we did then and most folks don’t do now. When was the last time at a NO Mass did you recite the Confiteor much less the Creed? I’m at a very reverent NO cathedral parish and I can’t recall ever reciting the Confiteor during the Penitential Rite and it has been since the early 80s. Couldn’t tell you how long it has been since we have said the Creed. I think there would be stunned silence if Father decided to use the Confiteor - how few would be able to recite it? My two sons, 25 and 22 couldn’t.

In 1992, my cathedral parish celebrated its 200th anniversary. We had the Cardinal Archbishop of Lyons, France; the Archbishop of Salamanca, Spain; the six bishops and archbishop of Louisiana; and retired bishops and archbishops who were associated with the parish. At the end of an entirely reverent NO Mass celebrated in English, French, and Spanish, the Cardinal Archbishop of Lyons dropped a bombshell -

He gave the apostolic blessing in…LATIN!

Adjutorium nostrum in nomini Domini…

In my choir of 25, only myself and four others knew the response. In the congregation, a scattered handfull…the response:

Qui faecit coelum et terram was …very obviously weak and most embarrasing. It was at this point that I realized what we had lost. It was only the folks of our generation who were able to respond. I found this profoundly sad and evidently so did our rector who afterwards released the ban on the choir singing Latin.

EXACT (almost) same thing happened last year. It was the feast of Our Lady of Perpetual Help so a Vatican bishop (Italian I think) en route somewhere stopped for Solemn Mass. Chanted the doxology in Latin. And then at the end of the Mass, apparently couldn’t find the place in the missal. After a little turning over the page and turning back, he gave up and decided to use…Latin. Sit nomen domini benedictum. Moment of silence. The the priests at the altar loudly intoned ex hoc nunc et usque in saeculum and the assistant priest jabbed his finger in the missal so the next line was “Our help is in the name of the Lord”.
But the bishop switched back to Latin and though I’m pretty sure more than a few people did not understand descendat super vos et maneat semper the tone and the sign of the cross was self explanatory so the reponse was fine.

But it’s opposite I think, in my parish. Very few people know form B of the Pentiential Rite. Form A (a.k.a. the Confiteor) is default at every Mass.

 

[lak611]

I’m only a tiny bit older than brotherhrolf, so I also remember growing up with the Latin Mass. I used to nag my parents to get up early enough for the High Mass, which was at 6:45 AM! I remember the incense, huge numbers of altar servers, and the choir singing/chanting in Latin (all of which we have at my current NO parish, although we also sing a little in French, as well, but mostly in English).

Wow, that’s interesting. My parents said that when they were in Catholic grade school they had to sing in the choir at High Mass. The High Mass was usually sometime in the middle of the Mass schedule, never the first Mass of the day. In fact, my grandparents usually went to an earlier Mass because it was Low Mass and shorter. They would send my parents to church for the High Mass after coming home from the earlier Low Mass.

 

[st_julie]

I too was growing up in the 50s and remember the Latin Mass very fondly. Loved High Mass and Benediction. The changes in the 60s did not really bother me then. Since there was no missal it was hard th recognize an abuse if we saw one. Eventually I just became more and more secular and taught my children to be nice lukewarm secular catholics. Keeping oneself catechised was a completely foreign thought. In the early 90s my children became absolutely under the spell of an evangelical preacher. He travelled the world in a white dress and beanie and delivered a message that they accepted hook, line and sinker. In turn they evangelized me. I love the mass in English but would like to pray a latin mass again.

sy julie