Baby out of wedlock and employed at catholic school

[stupidisasstupiddoes]

Oh give me a break.

My thoughts exactly. Some people leave their common sense at the door.

 

[kptrs]

Maybe in the context of a secular sex ed class, but here on a Catholic forum, fornication should really be discouraged.

 

[kptrs]

I have plenty of common sense, thank you. I just don’t let it interfere with advocating for moral decisions.

 

[stupidisasstupiddoes]

Maybe in the context of a secular sex ed class, but here on a Catholic forum, fornication should really be discouraged.

@Spyridon was absolutely not encouraging fornication.

 

[kptrs]

I didn’t hear him say don’t have sex if you’re not married. What he said was if you do commit the sin of having sex when you’re not married, use a condom. Maybe he wasn’t encouraging it, but it doesn’t sound like he was discouraging the act of fornication either.

 

[Spyridon]

didn’t hear him say don’t have sex if you’re not married. What he said was if you do commit the sin of having sex when you’re not married, use a condom. Maybe he wasn’t encouraging it, but it doesn’t sound like he was discouraging the act of fornication either.

Because it’s a given.

I’m not gonna wag my finger and drill the OP with something she already knows.

I strongly discourage the sin of fornication, along with every other sin.

But simply saying “that’s a sin, don’t do that” and leaving it at that is not helpful here.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If you are in the United States and this is a private, non-governmental employer, they can fire you for almost anything. Private employers have a very broad right to hire and fire. About the only things that might possibly be illegal would be discrimination on the basis of age or race or an issue involving a disability (which would have to be the employee’s own disability, not something his girlfriend has). Edited to add, I see you said you are in Canada and I am less certain of what the general law is there, but the next two paragraphs of my answer likely apply to you even in Canada.

Private schools (including non-Catholic private schools) fire people over morals issues all the time. This is not anything special.

Furthermore, you don’t know for sure if your boyfriend’s job was threatened. He could have been making stuff up or exaggerating in order to have an excuse to break up with you. In any event, if there was a legal issue involved, your boyfriend is the wronged party and he is the one who would have to be seeing the lawyer and bringing the case. You yourself cannot bring any kind of a suit and of course the school is not going to talk to you. You’re not their employee, you’re not married to the man, they owe you nothing at all. Sorry.

 

[kptrs]

And we have derailed the thread. I’m out. Peace to all of you.

 

[Spyridon]

And we have derailed the thread. I’m out. Peace to all of yo

I don’t think so.

This seems like a very germane discussion to have, given the subject matter of the OP.

 

[kptrs]

What is wrong with saying “That’s a sin, don’t do that?” Let me ask you this: How would the Church react if a priest were standing up at Mass and saying during his homily, “Fornication is a sin but if you do it use a condom?” I’d expect to hear that in a secular sex ed class, sure. But coming from the Church? I don’t think so. Furthermore, condoms aren’t foolproof. If the condom breaks and the people fornicating end up pregnant or with an STD anyway, then what? Not to mention their immortal soul is in jeopardy.

 

[Spyridon]

uring his homily, “Fornication is a sin but if you do it use a condom?” I

That would be wildly inappropriate in the context of a homily.

If he said it in an RCIA class or argued for it in a book or something though, I’d be fine with it.

 

[kptrs]

My point is this is a Catholic forum. It’s not the place to endorse “safe sex” practices when our religion teaches that the only place for sex is marriage.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

So will this man not be involved with the child he helped bring into the world because he could be fired ?

There are so many things wrong with this I can’t begin to imagine.

The man made a mistake and sinned. The principal is telling him that although he went to confession, it doesn’t matter. He will be punished with termination if he continues to be seen with you. My guess is the same if he’s seen with the child.

It’s stories like this which has young people turning away from the Catholic Church and religion in general.

Jim

 

[stupidisasstupiddoes]

I am In Canada so is it here?

I’ve no idea sorry. Also, although there’s been talk about fornication what i will say is that when you go through the struggles of raising a child born out of wedlock then you are doing something good as an example to people who would abort that baby. Frankly the father needs to man up and the principal needs to do some soul searching. I sincerely wish you the best in parenthood. By the way, the percentage of people that have never fornicated is about 5% so don’t take some of the comments too literally.

 

[jfz178]

Well getting back to the thread, I was in a diocese were this happened. There is a legal aspect and a moral aspect. Legally, there is some importance of local laws. Generally, private institutions can fire you for almost anything unless you are in a legally protected group. But there is one protected group that @Tis_Bearself left out: Gender. I know that only women can have children, but it has been argued that unless the diocese has been equally vigorous in firing men who have fathered children out of wedlock, they are discriminating by gender and that is illegal. Also, pregnancy discrimination is illegal in most states in general. Churches and private schools are generally exempt, but if they start to show a pattern of violating community standards, they may lose that exemption.

To the moral issue, if the pregnant woman has made a mistake, repented and confessed, which is no one’s business but hers, she is not in a state of sin and so should not be judged. Does the church really want to create an incentive for abortion in its own ranks?

 

[Spyridon]

the condom breaks and the people fornicating end up pregnant or with an STD anyway, then what? Not to mention their immortal soul is in jeopardy.

Then they deal with the consequences.

Condoms mitigate risk - they do not eliminate it.

And people should have a good understanding of sin and try to avoid it as much as possible.

But there is also good reason for people to be as safe as possible if they DO commit sins.

If someone wants to go use heroin, you can tell them heroin is bad and sinful and they shouldn’t do it and it could kill them and they could go to hell until you’re blue in the face, and chances are that won’t stop them from using.

You’re better off convincing them to make sure they use a clean new needle, clean injection equipment, and start with a small dosage.

It’s called harm reduction, it works, and I’m a strong advocate of it.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The man made a mistake and sinned. The principal is telling him that although he went to confession, it doesn’t matter. He will be punished with termination if he continues to be seen with you. My guess is the same if he’s seen with the child.

Let’s be clear here. We are getting this story secondhand from the baby momma that the man broke up with.
He could have made the entire thing up. A man who is lame enough to ditch out on his unborn child is certainly capable of lying to provide himself with an excuse.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Then we give the benefit of the doubt to the mother who is posting the question and answering it accordingly.

Jim

 

[1ke]

I’m wondering if it is illegal to be terminated by your employer because of conceiving a child out of wedlock?

That is a question for a lawyer.

However, in your title you mention being employed by a Catholic school. Federal law has ministerial exceptIon regarding claims of discrimination. A Catholic school teacher would generally fall under this.

Edited to add: I don’t know anything about Canadian Law. I was speaking of the US.

Also it is against forum rules to seek legal advice here.

When I was 17weeks pregnant he broke up with me because his job was threatened.

Well something sounds a little fishy here, including that he didn’t rectify the situation by offering marriage.

I’m wondering if this is illegal?

That is a question for a lawyer. We cannot give legal advice. In general someone can be terminated from what is called a ministerial position (that includes people who inculcate religious values to children in their role as a teacher).

How can one loose a job for accidentally creating life!?

An unmarried Catholic should not be having sexual relations.

And you didn’t accidentally do anything. Sex makes babies and you had sex, knowingly. The chance was always there. You weren’t counting on a baby, but sex has the possibility every time you have it, barring disease, defect, or age.

The principal actually advised him to I quote “not be seen in public with me”

Then I assume this has to do with the ministerial exceptIon and his leadership role. Of course this is all hearsay. I’ve not heard of this sort of stipulation, but a man in an extramarital sexual relationship should be treated the same as a woman.

He can certainly rectify this situation by marrying you.

when I emailed her to question it was ignored and I was directed to speak to the father or school super intendant. Advise?

The school cannot discuss personnel matters with you.

I suggest you and your boyfriend speak to a priest about getting married. That may not come until after the baby is born, but you could start premarital counseling now. And baptism classes for the baby.

And make an appointment to not speak together to the school officials if you want more details.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You can give her the benefit of the doubt if you want. I tend to look at men who run out on their children with a very jaundiced eye. Usually they are rats to begin with and they will blame everybody else under the sun for their own failure.

There is a very simple thing that this man could have done if indeed he was put in this situation by his employer: marry the mother of his child. If he is not in a position to be doing that because he or she is already married, then that’s all the more reason to remove him from a position where he educates young minds.