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dochawk
Guest
Really? You’ve never encountered the folks who call the mother “irresponsible” for refraining from prenatal infanticide???
hawk
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hawk
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dochawk
Guest
In the Knights of Columbus, we raise and spend millions on machines to help young mothers see who they’re carrying, so as to help them make the choice this young woman apparently reached on her own.
Good for the mother, and this suggests that the grandmother did something right in raising her, even though she slipped up.
(and, yes, I’ve dealt with a pre-maturely pregnant daughter)
hawk
Good for the mother, and this suggests that the grandmother did something right in raising her, even though she slipped up.
(and, yes, I’ve dealt with a pre-maturely pregnant daughter)
hawk
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
When it comes to a baby shower and knowing people personally and not the yahoo comment section…people tend to be more into a woman’s right to get her way.
Let’s be clear…these people would be willing to drive the mother to a clinic as the baby is crowning…but their right to choose what they want is sacrosanct.
Let’s be clear…these people would be willing to drive the mother to a clinic as the baby is crowning…but their right to choose what they want is sacrosanct.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
And yet, people who oppose abortion do so in part because life is to be so celebrated. With all due respect, that sounds like a Catholic talking out of both sides of their mouth. I realize that’s a blunt statement for me to make, but that’s the way it sounds to somebody from the outside looking in. I just thought I would let you know that so that you may want to change the way you express your thoughts on this matter.I agree. I have no issues buying baby stuff however a baby shower does imply a party to celebrate the pregnancy which does seem wrong.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
This can be common especially if the health of the baby and viability is in question.The one I’m most familiar with we were told the parents didn’t want anything until the child was born. Dad was in the picture though, and if they had wanted stuff before the birth I would have no issue with dropping stuff over. It’s the throwing a party that I would be uncomfortable with until after the birth.
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Elf01
Guest
The issue is to find the right balance.
We don’t want to go back to the baby homes days but I think it’s swung too far in the name of compassion.
I am glad that this woman chose to keep her baby and again have no issue with giving baby gifts but celebrating the pregnancy does seem too much like approving of the sin to me.
It is possible that I am being too judgmental though.
We don’t want to go back to the baby homes days but I think it’s swung too far in the name of compassion.
I am glad that this woman chose to keep her baby and again have no issue with giving baby gifts but celebrating the pregnancy does seem too much like approving of the sin to me.
It is possible that I am being too judgmental though.
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Legend
Guest
Some posters seem to be going in the direction of doing things the ‘old fashioned’ way-no support counseling for the mother, just get the baby to a decent, adopted home as soon as possible. If possible, hide the pregnancy…don’t talk about it, even (or was that, 'especially?) to your pastor. Isn’t lying a sin? Yes, but this is different! (It isn’t)
Years, suicides, mental illness, and even some infanticides later, we found we were wrong! Remember, the sin ends with the sex act. The baby, a result, is not a part of the sin.
On another thread, I called this attitude, ‘an abortion without killing the baby’. While such a thing isn’t possible, of course, it does seem to give the parents of the mother the right to make it as close to this as possible. I have seen, first hand, how well an adoption can work out. But the mother has the right to approve, or disapprove. I don’t think that any states allow taking the baby against the mothers will!
This mother, from another thread started by the grandmother, is not likely to give this child up…and, she has been financially responsible. Please, don’t try and go back to the good old days-that never were!
Years, suicides, mental illness, and even some infanticides later, we found we were wrong! Remember, the sin ends with the sex act. The baby, a result, is not a part of the sin.
On another thread, I called this attitude, ‘an abortion without killing the baby’. While such a thing isn’t possible, of course, it does seem to give the parents of the mother the right to make it as close to this as possible. I have seen, first hand, how well an adoption can work out. But the mother has the right to approve, or disapprove. I don’t think that any states allow taking the baby against the mothers will!
This mother, from another thread started by the grandmother, is not likely to give this child up…and, she has been financially responsible. Please, don’t try and go back to the good old days-that never were!
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Elf01
Guest
Indeed, we need to find the balance between giving the mother needed support and not taking the sin out on the baby and appearing to approve of the sin though.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Celebrating the pregnancy is not “approving the sin” I think that’s the issue that you are being hard-hearted on.Indeed, we need to find the balance between giving the mother needed support and not taking the sin out on the baby and appearing to approve of the sin though.
The sin is over, the sin is done.
What I think you’re hinting at is the idea of the scandal. That it’s encouraging pre-marital sex because a woman without a husband gets a baby shower. I promise you no woman is thinking “I better not have sex because I’m not going to get that sweet UppaBaby stroller if I get pregnant”.
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Elf01
Guest
Indeed, if I could disassociate them I would have no issue with attending.Celebrating the pregnancy is not “approving the sin” I think that’s the issue that you are being hard-hearted on.
I understand that and I suppose the risk of pregnancy doesn’t stop people having sex any more which is the real sin here. I suppose it depends on the woman now. If I know her well enough to think she is contrite I’d go. No, I’m not expecting a scarlet letter type thing either or a public confession or penance. If I don’t know her well enough I’m either not close enough to be invited or I doubt my attendance would make a difference. The scenarios I’d have in mind, and was basing my responses on is where the mother does not seem to be contrite.I promise you no woman is thinking “I better not have sex because I’m not going to get that sweet UppaBaby stroller if I get pregnant”.
In the OP’s case we’re talking about her daughter so I assume she knows if her daughter seems contrite.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Depends on the woman, yes.I understand that and I suppose the risk of pregnancy doesn’t stop people having sex any more which is the real sin here. I suppose it depends on the woman now. If I know her well enough to think she is contrite I’d go. No, I’m not expecting a scarlet letter type thing either or a public confession or penance. If I don’t know her well enough I’m either not close enough to be invited or I doubt my attendance would make a difference. The scenarios I’d have in mind, and was basing my responses on is where the mother does not seem to be contrite.
In the OP’s case we’re talking about her daughter so I assume she knows if her daughter seems contrite.
Contrite? I’m not sure how that would even come up in decent conversation or why it needs to.
It’d be very complicated, however, becuase a woman at any point in gestation could take an outsider’s desire for “contrite” as shaming.
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Elf01
Guest
I’m assuming where my attendance would make a difference in my relationship with the mother I’d know. I wouldn’t ask, just play it safe and not go if I wasn’t sure.Contrite? I’m not sure how that would even come up in decent conversation or why it needs to.
There are also other ways to tell If a woman is on baby 3 or a couple is invalidly married with no plans to rectify their marriage for example you can tell that there is no contrition.
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pensmama87
Guest
I think it’s hard to judge contrition. You never know what private conversations or thoughts people have had. And at some point, a mom is not going to look embarrassed or ashamed every time she goes out. She may never look “the part.” She may even be defiant as a protective measure.
She’s going to have a harder time than a mom in a happy marriage no matter what.
She’s going to have a harder time than a mom in a happy marriage no matter what.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
I am hearing a lot of judgement here. I am not sure that is the best way to go. Are you this worried about other, non-sexual sins others may commit? Do you avoid a party if you know the host may have, at one time, gossiped or missed mass on a holy day of obligation or told a lie?I’m assuming where my attendance would make a difference in my relationship with the mother I’d know. I wouldn’t ask, just play it safe and not go if I wasn’t sure.
There are also other ways to tell If a woman is on baby 3 or a couple is invalidly married with no plans to rectify their marriage for example you can tell that there is no contrition.
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Elf01
Guest
If I associated the party with the sin yes.Do you avoid a party if you know the host may have, at one time, gossiped or missed mass on a holy day of obligation or told a lie?
For example if the guest of honor had received an award because of a told lie and a party was been thrown I would skip it.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Contrition is between someone and God.I’m assuming where my attendance would make a difference in my relationship with the mother I’d know. I wouldn’t ask, just play it safe and not go if I wasn’t sure.
There are also other ways to tell If a woman is on baby 3 or a couple is invalidly married with no plans to rectify their marriage for example you can tell that there is no contrition.
A woman who is on baby 3 with no dad in sight needs more help and attention, not less, as she’s obvously relying on the wrong people.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
But the hosts could turn down the award. A mother can’t really turn down the baby once it is, in her belly unless she wants to have an abortion.For example if the guest of honor had received an award because of a told lie and a party was been thrown I would skip it.
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Elf01
Guest
Not attending a party doesn’t mean I’m not going to provide any help as I have stated multiple times.
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Elf01
Guest
Lets go with an anniversary party for an invalidly married couple then.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
Truthfully, I think you are focusing too much on the sins of other people. Human relationships are complicated. Everybody doesn’t always get everything exactly right. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t still cellebrate the good parts.Lets go with an anniversary party for an invalidly married couple then.
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