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thunderboom
Guest
Have I mentioned the word “rant” before? Talk about hysterical reactionaries…You clearly didn’t even look at my link and you’ve completely lost me with that last post??
donymacmanus.com/drawings.html
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edwest2
Guest
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edwest2
Guest
I don’t believe that last statement is generally true. People are celebrating a lot of things in the media - virtue is not one of them.I think you have misunderstood me and I guess I didn’t express myself very well. I didn’t say people don’t care, I know they do, I know that very well. I was referring to the way that, most of the time, a person who we know is dying is in the hospital and attached to monitors rather than at home in their own bed. There a lot of reasons for this and many of them are good reasons or just the way it is now but it does mean that, in general, we have become separated from the process of death. We don’t see it happening as we grow up, as children once did, and so it is a shock when we are confronted by even a natural ‘old age’ death. Death is seen as something to be feared and hidden rather than a natural thing that will happen to us all. That’s not everyone’s experience of course and it’s less so for those with strong faith, but it’s true for most people in the west today.
Back to nude modelling - the point I was trying to make is that we won’t get rid of pornography by banning nude modelling or art. Nude art doesn’t treat the body as a collection of parts for exploitation, it’s a celebration of the beauty of the human form.
Peace,
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
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thunderboom
Guest
If you notice the content of what I wrote, bringing beauty to the world is clearly an act of following God.
I rest my case. You refuse to engage with the substance of my arguments; I’m not going to deal with your stubborn refusal to listen to reason…
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Baelor
Guest
EdWest, I do not understand why you keep posting the same thing over and over again and do not even demonstrate that you have read what other posters are responding. Could you help me understand?
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irishOntarian
Guest
True, but I don’t always have that option, unless I want to draw still-lifes all the time
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bbentrup
Guest
Another possible resource for recovering sex addicts that has been debated is to look at nude art from the masters of past centuries. For not just this possibility, but for just pure art appreciation I recommend wga.hu/index1.html. which has 29,000 works from the years 1000-1850. It’s the most amazing virtual art museum ever. Search for ‘nude’ in the ‘text’ box below and behold God’s most perfect forms and the reverence attached thereto. Obviously, don’t sully the site with lustful thoughts (there are much easier ways of sinning than that anyway).
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WFurman
Guest
Since I have volunteered to model for at least one session of an upcoming figure drawing workshop, I would like to add my (name removed by moderator)ut.
I believe that nude modeling is acceptable under the premise that it is not done for purposes that are intended to incite lust (e.g.: pornography). We believe, as Catholics, that our bodies “are created in the image and likeness of God” (Genesis 1:26). That said, the (naked) human body can be portrayed in a way that represents the beauty of the person as God intended them to be through works of art, whether it be by figure drawing; a painting; or a sculpture. After all, shouldn’t we “glorifying God in our bodies” (1 Corinthians 6:20). However, the human body can also be seen in a way that is used for lustful purposes. In this case, nude modeling would not be permissible since the purpose would one that would reduce the person to an object of desire and not the way God intends. Therefore, the issue is not with the human body, but how it is portrayed and intended to be portrayed and what the intent is. If it is portrayed in a way that represents the person in God’s image, then yes, nude modeling is and should be permissible. However, if it is done in a way that will promote lust, whether it is by the model; artist; or recipient of art, then nude modeling should be avoided at all costs.
What I intend to accomplish in my figure drawing session is that the artists who are drawing me see me for who I truly am, a person created in the image and likeness of God. Sure, I may have my weaknesses; imperfections; and faults; but I am still a beautiful human being. I am truly looking forward to the experience and believe that my session will be relaxing and therapeutic to me simultaneously. Please pray that my experience goes well.
I believe that nude modeling is acceptable under the premise that it is not done for purposes that are intended to incite lust (e.g.: pornography). We believe, as Catholics, that our bodies “are created in the image and likeness of God” (Genesis 1:26). That said, the (naked) human body can be portrayed in a way that represents the beauty of the person as God intended them to be through works of art, whether it be by figure drawing; a painting; or a sculpture. After all, shouldn’t we “glorifying God in our bodies” (1 Corinthians 6:20). However, the human body can also be seen in a way that is used for lustful purposes. In this case, nude modeling would not be permissible since the purpose would one that would reduce the person to an object of desire and not the way God intends. Therefore, the issue is not with the human body, but how it is portrayed and intended to be portrayed and what the intent is. If it is portrayed in a way that represents the person in God’s image, then yes, nude modeling is and should be permissible. However, if it is done in a way that will promote lust, whether it is by the model; artist; or recipient of art, then nude modeling should be avoided at all costs.
What I intend to accomplish in my figure drawing session is that the artists who are drawing me see me for who I truly am, a person created in the image and likeness of God. Sure, I may have my weaknesses; imperfections; and faults; but I am still a beautiful human being. I am truly looking forward to the experience and believe that my session will be relaxing and therapeutic to me simultaneously. Please pray that my experience goes well.
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edwest2
Guest
Interesting post. And with all due respect, while you know what your intention is, you can’t read the minds of the students around you. I took life drawing class in college and while I saw a few remarkable examples of the human form, I’ve decided that it’s not really worth the time and effort. A good anatomy book that breaks down the human body and then goes under the skin to show how bone and muscle attach, is far more instructive.
Due to my experience as an artist, I am acting assistant art director where I work, and I’ve have had the opportunity to help mentor a real rising star whose work has improved over the last year. He has had no formal art training, but his work has passed the threshold into professional quality. Still, he needs some refinement and outside (name removed by moderator)ut. He can render the human form beautifully and instill in it the key factors that make any good drawing a success: Attitude in terms of posing, Facial expression, manner of Dress. When properly combined together, I recently saw one character portrayed that was so filled with life that I thought to myself: “This drawing is that character.” Just like a movie, even if the character looks only partly human or alien, a skillful artist can bring him to life. Which he did. Just like great writing, the reader suddenly forgets he is reading a story and feels the characters are alive.
Peace,
Ed
Due to my experience as an artist, I am acting assistant art director where I work, and I’ve have had the opportunity to help mentor a real rising star whose work has improved over the last year. He has had no formal art training, but his work has passed the threshold into professional quality. Still, he needs some refinement and outside (name removed by moderator)ut. He can render the human form beautifully and instill in it the key factors that make any good drawing a success: Attitude in terms of posing, Facial expression, manner of Dress. When properly combined together, I recently saw one character portrayed that was so filled with life that I thought to myself: “This drawing is that character.” Just like a movie, even if the character looks only partly human or alien, a skillful artist can bring him to life. Which he did. Just like great writing, the reader suddenly forgets he is reading a story and feels the characters are alive.
Peace,
Ed
While I agree with what you say above, my primary point is that life painting & sketching is an art in itself and there is nothing inherently evil about it.
While the modern world dehumanises and sexualises the body, there is no need to abandon a wonderful form of art.
This conversation is symbolic of the need for true beauty to be rediscovered in art as it has been lost in most modern cultures.
While the modern world dehumanises and sexualises the body, there is no need to abandon a wonderful form of art.
This conversation is symbolic of the need for true beauty to be rediscovered in art as it has been lost in most modern cultures.
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edwest2
Guest
I only ask that you ask yourself about what beauty means to the average person today. It means young women dressing like prostitutes and the same for many celebrities, or wearing less on the internet. Today, real beauty is buried under a mountain of 100% pure, unadulterated filth.
If real beauty is to return, it has certain requirements:
Respect for self.
Respect for others.
Modesty
Decency
Civility and decorum.
Standard rules for dating, courtship, engagement and marriage.
Right now, the answer is to abandon at least 95% of current media output. And a few words from Pope Benedict:
‘Society today needs clear voices which propose our right to live, not in a jungle of self-destructive and arbitrary freedoms, but in a society which works for the true welfare of its citizens and offers them guidance and protection in the face of their weakness and fragility.’
‘There are many temptations placed before you every day – drugs, money, sex, pornography, alcohol – which the world tells you will bring you happiness, yet these things are destructive and divisive. There is only one thing which lasts: the love of Jesus Christ personally for each one of you. Search for him, know him and love him, and he will set you free from slavery to the glittering but superficial existence frequently proposed by today’s society. Put aside what is worthless and learn of your own dignity as children of God.’
And I write the following with great sorry. As I was growing up, I saw many photos of smiling mothers holding their smiling babies. My mother is old now, but she is not in a home, she is living with me and other family members.
If we can be so insensitive to life to kill our own unborn children.
If we can be so insensitive to the profanity and sexuality and dysfunctionality we see on TV and in the movies. And in public.
If we can be so insensitive to seeing porn, and going to strip clubs and topless bars to see our neighbors’ children being exploited for money.
If we have become so desensitized that we spend hours seeing all these things and the feeling that it’s all in a fog which we pass through - while feeling nothing - We need to ask ourselves: Who are we?
Only then can beauty be restored. We have the answer:
"The Holy Father says:
Peace,
Ed
If real beauty is to return, it has certain requirements:
Respect for self.
Respect for others.
Modesty
Decency
Civility and decorum.
Standard rules for dating, courtship, engagement and marriage.
Right now, the answer is to abandon at least 95% of current media output. And a few words from Pope Benedict:
‘Society today needs clear voices which propose our right to live, not in a jungle of self-destructive and arbitrary freedoms, but in a society which works for the true welfare of its citizens and offers them guidance and protection in the face of their weakness and fragility.’
‘There are many temptations placed before you every day – drugs, money, sex, pornography, alcohol – which the world tells you will bring you happiness, yet these things are destructive and divisive. There is only one thing which lasts: the love of Jesus Christ personally for each one of you. Search for him, know him and love him, and he will set you free from slavery to the glittering but superficial existence frequently proposed by today’s society. Put aside what is worthless and learn of your own dignity as children of God.’
And I write the following with great sorry. As I was growing up, I saw many photos of smiling mothers holding their smiling babies. My mother is old now, but she is not in a home, she is living with me and other family members.
If we can be so insensitive to life to kill our own unborn children.
If we can be so insensitive to the profanity and sexuality and dysfunctionality we see on TV and in the movies. And in public.
If we can be so insensitive to seeing porn, and going to strip clubs and topless bars to see our neighbors’ children being exploited for money.
If we have become so desensitized that we spend hours seeing all these things and the feeling that it’s all in a fog which we pass through - while feeling nothing - We need to ask ourselves: Who are we?
Only then can beauty be restored. We have the answer:
"The Holy Father says:
Code:
"If we cannot have common values, common truths, sufficient communication on the essentials of human life–how to live how to respond to the great challenges of human life–then true society becomes impossible."Ed
The Holy Father says nothing about abandoning the quest for beauty and allowing it to shine through the arts. The artist who I posted about previously has met with the Pope and the Holy Father Shares his hope to set up a School of Art in Florence.
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feed_me
Guest
I agree, but when we are in a state of grace we don’t have that pull to look at a certain women, or lust, it’s like everything falls away and we can actually look at a women or man and not lust. That is the greatest feeling ever when we(or I at least) can walk down a street at a university with girls dressed in the most skimpiest clothing and not have that pull to look and lust at them.
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edwest2
Guest
And you endorse girls dressing this way?I agree, but when we are in a state of grace we don’t have that pull to look at a certain women, or lust, it’s like everything falls away and we can actually look at a women or man and not lust. That is the greatest feeling ever when we(or I at least) can walk down a street at a university with girls dressed in the most skimpiest clothing and not have that pull to look and lust at them.
Peace,
Ed
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bbentrup
Guest
Thank you for your courageous post. As others have said, we need to regain Christian art, to find God in our depictions of the human body, male and female. We need to be a beacon for the rest of our culture that falls for the evil one’s lies about the body. In that vein, yours is a beautiful service that I hope and pray no one abuses. If you have any doubts, try to see some of the artist’s or art director’s work first to see that your body will be respected. Maybe during your session you can say a rosary with your fingers for these intentions. God bless!
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feed_me
Guest
Nope, but in a state of grace when they are dressed like that you wont be bothered by what they wear or not wearing.
Did you not understand what I wrote?
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edwest2
Guest
No, not at all. Most men do not have an an on and off switch regarding lust, otherwise the porn industry would not be as large as it is today. It has replaced true beauty with degradation, destruction of proper morals, and open scandal. Look at the average magazine cover that shows an attractive woman. I have a background in photography and every tiny detail about her hair, makeup, pose, lighting and amount and position of clothing is carefully planned before the shoot. Why? To achieve the maximum amount of sexual arousal in the men looking at her. She is being sold as a “sex object,” not as a human being with dignity.
Peace,
Ed
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Baelor
Guest
The conclusion does not follow from the premises. You do not admit other possibilities, among which is that men choose to consume pornography with no attempt to curb that behavior.
While I agree that there is no “off” switch to being sexually aroused, I still disagree with your assertion that all nude art nowadays is immoral.
I also think modelling and photography are not necessarily bad areas of work to be in…not all photography is to achieve maximum sexual arousal from the viewer. This is a blanket statement and is just untrue.
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