Bad Confession Experience - Incorrect Absolution Formulas

[bilop]

It would be an irresponsible assumption to make considering either their ignorance of or disregard for the law of the Church.

Even if I had absolute certainty that the absolution was valid, I was completely within my rights to ask for the licit form. Why won’t you admit this?

I agree with you completely, Dauphin.

The priest has no right to not use the approved form.

You’d be well within your right to complain to the Bishop.

God Bless

 

[BSHoop96]

I went to confession today, and it definitely qualifies as the worst experience I’ve had in the confessional.

The priest used a formula of absolution other than the one prescribed by the Church. It went something like:

“I ask God to free you from all your temptations and iniquities…”

Confused by this prayer I had never heard before, and worried that I would not receive the correct formula of absolution, I interrrupted the priest, and asked him to use the correct formula. I accept that this was probably not the best approach, but I was really thrown off by this brand new prayer he had invented. After telling me how rude I was being, and after I apologized to him, the priest then offered me this absolution:

“I ask Christ to absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”

I knew that this wasn’t the correct formula either, but the priest was already upset at me, so I thanked him and went to the rectory to seek a confession from the pastor.

The pastor let me in. I explained what had happened, and he argued with me, telling me that the confession was valid as long as the priest had the correct intention. I responded that the confession might have been valid (since I knew there are different formulas used in the east), but that priests are supposed to use a particular formula, and I wanted absolute certainty that my sins were absolved.

The priest then gave me a confession, using the proper formula, “I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”, and then admonished me not to be “scrupulous”.

Was I wrong to be so insistent on the proper formula of absolution? What would you have done?

Since you asked…I would never have interrupted the priest. If when he was finished he still hadn’t said the words I was familiar with and it bothered me I would have said that I wasn’t familiar with that form and didn’t know there were other valid and approved forms and ask him to tell me about it.

 

[Dauphin]

Since you asked…I would never have interrupted the priest. If when he was finished he still hadn’t said the words I was familiar with and it bothered me I would have said that I wasn’t familiar with that form and didn’t know there were other valid and approved forms and ask him to tell me about it.

You do understand that there are no other approved forms for this priest to use, though?

The priest had already been going on with an illicit form for some time, and I believed that he was offering me an illicit absolution when I interrupted. I was proved right in the end when he still wouldn’t use the correct form.

 

[japhy]

I note that Dauphin’s pastor said the very same words as we read from Jimmy Akin, which seems to lend even further credibility that this IS Church teaching. I really doubted that Jimmy would have submitted that teaching without thorough research. This is what I am going to hold onto unless someone with greater resource material is able to prove otherwise.The pastor let me in. I explained what had happened, and he argued with me, telling me that the confession was valid as long as the priest had the correct intention.

That doesn’t sound like Catholic sacramental theology as I understand it, where a sacrament requires for validity the proper minister, form (words), matter, and intent.

 

[Nickkname]

You did your duty in defending the Sacrament of Penance, and, from the sounds of it, with great love. Be sure to thank the Lord for giving you this grace.

 

[BSHoop96]

You do understand that there are no other approved forms for this priest to use, though?

The priest had already been going on with an illicit form for some time, and I believed that he was offering me an illicit absolution when I interrupted. I was proved right in the end when he still wouldn’t use the correct form.

I’m not even talking about who was right and who was “proved” right. I would not have interrupted the priest. By waiting till the end and saying I was unfamiliar with it and did not know there were other approved forms (even if I did know) would have been a way to open up the conversation for you to discuss it and state your case without interrupting and saying you want it the “right” way. That IMO was rude and immediately put him on the defensive as it would have anyone. Good grief, it’s not like he was trying to “pull a fast one on you”. This is a priest and I would have bent over backwards to be respectful. That’s what I was trying to say.

 

[Dauphin]

I’m not even talking about who was right and who was “proved” right. I would not have interrupted the priest. By waiting till the end and saying I was unfamiliar with it and did not know there were other approved forms (even if I did know) would have been a way to open up the conversation for you to discuss it and state your case without interrupting and saying you want it the “right” way. That IMO was rude and immediately put him on the defensive as it would have anyone. Good grief, it’s not like he was trying to “pull a fast one on you”. This is a priest and I would have bent over backwards to be respectful. That’s what I was trying to say.

I know. I acknowledged that I shouldn’t have interrupted, and I did apologize to the priest, but confession for me is my most exposed and stressful moment. When the priest was playing games with the sacrament, it made me forget myself, and I acted almost without thinking.

Refusing to give me the correct absolution, even when I made it clear that I wanted it, was hardly the correct response, though.

 

[BSHoop96]

I know. I acknowledged that I shouldn’t have interrupted, and I did apologize to the priest, but confession for me is my most exposed and stressful moment. When the priest was playing games with the sacrament, it made me forget myself, and I acted almost without thinking.

Refusing to give me the correct absolution, even when I made it clear that I wanted it, was hardly the correct response, though.

Dauphin…look at what you just said…“playing games with the sacrament”…that’s awful! I can feel fairly certain that he did not think he was “playing games” with the sacrament. You have attributed the worst possible motives to him! He wasn’t personally trying to hurt you I am sure. I am sorry that you feel so exposed and stressful at that time. Perhaps it would help to remind yourself that you are only being exposed to Christ. Perhaps there is a bit of scrupulosity here.

 

[Dauphin]

Dauphin…look at what you just said…“playing games with the sacrament”…that’s awful! I can feel fairly certain that he did not think he was “playing games” with the sacrament. You have attributed the worst possible motives to him! He wasn’t personally trying to hurt you I am sure. I am sorry that you feel so exposed and stressful at that time. Perhaps it would help to remind yourself that you are only being exposed to Christ. Perhaps there is a bit of scrupulosity here.

Arbitrarily changing the form of the sacrament is playing games with it. It demonstrates a lack of respect of the Church’s law, for the penitent, and most importantly, for Christ and His sacred action in this sacrament.

There’s no scrupulosity in exercising my right to a licit confession.

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

Thanks for your reply. My only worry is that I’ll be unable to get the proper formula of absolution in the future. I guess I could always try walking to a different parish (I don’t have a car).

I’m just really shaken by the prospect of not having a solid priest to confess to.

There’s got to be a TLM parish within bus distance. Priests that do TLM generally go the whole nine yards with confessions (as in they do the “God the Father of mercies” part). And they do it in Latin which is a nice touch

edit- And priests giving invalid confessions is probably something the bishop should hear about.

 

[Dauphin]

There’s got to be a TLM parish within bus distance. Priests that do TLM generally go the whole nine yards with confessions (as in they do the “God the Father of mercies” part). And they do it in Latin which is a nice touch

edit- And priests giving invalid confessions is probably something the bishop should hear about.

A three-hour bus distance, yeah.

The two closest locations would each take a day’s journey for me to attend Mass or go to confession - which I’m considering doing, although it costs quite a bit. We have a stable group of faithful here (been here for 23 years), but the Bishop has simply ignored the petitions for a regular priest or a weekly Mass. The Motu Proprio is a dead letter, at least in my part of the world.

I’m considering organizing my own petition and then going to Ecclesia Dei if it doesn’t get a response.

You’re right about traditional priests. I confessed once to an FSSP priest, and I was pretty much blown away - these men are pillars of orthodoxy and wisdom.

 

[Salonika]

I went to confession today, and it definitely qualifies as the worst experience I’ve had in the confessional.

The priest used a formula of absolution other than the one prescribed by the Church. It went something like:

“I ask God to free you from all your temptations and iniquities…”

Confused by this prayer I had never heard before, and worried that I would not receive the correct formula of absolution, I interrrupted the priest, and asked him to use the correct formula.

(The priest then gave me a confession, using the proper formula, “I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”, and then admonished me not to be “scrupulous”.

Was I wrong to be so insistent on the proper formula of absolution? What would you have done?

Confused - unless the first priests prayer had followed the traditional absolution. For you only have to read the two and see they are not saying the same thing.

 

[GailMac]

wow o wow dept for sure! I’m getting a little distressed over the fact that some have decided that the priest giving the sloppy Confession is right and the OP is wrong! We ARE talking about a Sacrament! When they mess it up, it is a sacrilege. Blowing this off is not a good thing.

I’m a little concerned that some of the posters here think they are canon experts and consider “intention” the normative criteria for validity. The is also another factor, licitness. But in the day and age of many Liturgical abuses, this Sacrament too, is abused. Bringing this to light is imperative to getting the abuse addressed. And this process is slow and takes time. We all must pray about it, but ignoring it won’t make it go away.

I support the OP and hope things work out for him. I have been there, done that. It is tough. Heart rending is the word I used to use for it. Thus my advise to him to circumcise his heart! Now, if I am in a place where the Confessor is new to me, I still get a little worried that I will participate in a Sacrilege. I have certain priests I go to for Confession and if they aren’t available, I don’t. To me the beauty of the Sacrament and those holy moments with the Divine Mercy are well worth doing a little “weeding” on my part. It takes work to find a good Confessor.

Peace,

Gail

 

[BSHoop96]

Arbitrarily changing the form of the sacrament is playing games with it. It demonstrates a lack of respect of the Church’s law, for the penitent, and most importantly, for Christ and His sacred action in this sacrament.

There’s no scrupulosity in exercising my right to a licit confession.

Daupin…it’s the way you exercised this right that smacks of scrupulosity not to mention that you are showing disrespect to a priest by attributing his actions to “playing games” when you don’t know his heart or mind.

*You *would have been innocent of any wrong doing by the priest had his intention been to absolve you (which it was) and you would have been forgiven and been okay if, God forbid, you had been flattened by a truck on the way home. Do you think Christ would deny you because of an error by the priest this one time? And if you were still convinced that you weren’t forgiven you could have returned the next day, talked to your pastor about it and gone to confession again rather than beating a path to his door right then and acting in such a manner as to make him mention scrupulosity to you.

I am not attacking you. I am suggesting that you may be too hard on yourself and in your angst took it out on the priest thus suggesting a bit of scrupulosity to me.

 

[Dauphin]

Daupin…it’s the way you exercised this right that smacks of scrupulosity not to mention that you are showing disrespect to a priest by attributing his actions to “playing games” when you don’t know his heart or mind.

*You *would have been innocent of any wrong doing by the priest had his intention been to absolve you (which it was) and you would have been forgiven and been okay if, God forbid, you had been flattened by a truck on the way home. Do you think Christ would deny you because of an error by the priest this one time? And if you were still convinced that you weren’t forgiven you could have returned the next day, talked to your pastor about it and gone to confession again rather than beating a path to his door right then and acting in such a manner as to make him mention scrupulosity to you.

I am not attacking you. I am suggesting that you may be too hard on yourself and in your angst took it out on the priest thus suggesting a bit of scrupulosity to me.

You’re completely wrong. If I hadn’t have made sure that my sins were absolved, and if I had left with any uncertainty about my absolution, I would not have truly complied with the sacrament of penance.

You would have me wait until days afterwards and many theological opinions and debates before deciding whether to be absolved. Salvation must be low on your list of priorities, but it isn’t on mine.

I was completely correct to seek a licit confession. That you would attack me for it reveals a disturbingly cavalier attitude towards the sacrament.

 

[BSHoop96]

You’re completely wrong. If I hadn’t have made sure that my sins were absolved, and if I had left with any uncertainty about my absolution, I would not have truly complied with the sacrament of penance.

You would have me wait until days afterwards and many theological opinions and debates before deciding whether to be absolved. Salvation must be low on your list of priorities, but it isn’t on mine.

I was completely correct to seek a licit confession. That you would attack me for it reveals a disturbingly cavalier attitude towards the sacrament.

Oh Daupin…bless you. You’re heart is troubled. I did not attack you at all. You asked in the OP what you should have done. I told you what I would have done. Then you proceeded to tell me how wrong I was.

I didn’t say many days. I said that the fact that you immediately went to the Pastor obviously in crisis rather than waiting till the next day to discuss and straighten out the matter and presenting your case indicated to me that the pastor may have indeed correctly noticed a bit of scrupulosity.

I have never attacked you but because I said what I did you have said things to me such as “salvation must be low on your list of priorities.” I have never said anything like that to you!

I never said you were wrong. I never said you shouldn’t speak to the pastor about it. I never said anything other than that I would have handled it a bit differently and that I think you are a bit hard on yourself. Have trust in the great mercy of God that you would not have been condemned by the misstep of a priest especially since you would have done your best to correct it. You just have done it different than I. I think there is nothing more for us to say to each other as you seem to strike out more harshly at each exchange. You have always seemed a very devout person. Be at peace in the love of the Lord.

 

[Dauphin]

I didn’t say many days. I said that the fact that you immediately went to the Pastor obviously in crisis rather than waiting till the next day to discuss and straighten out the matter and presenting your case indicated to me that the pastor may have indeed correctly noticed a bit of scrupulosity.

And I’m saying that there’s no scrupulosity in exercising my right to a licit confession. If I had waited, and left with any uncertainty about my absolution, it would have meant that salvation was low on my list of priorities - below my ego. I found it extremely humiliating to go into the rectory and beg the pastor for a confession and then give one face to face to someone who clearly thought I was a nut, but I did it out of the conviction that confession isn’t a joke or a game - that this is the most important thing in the world and it has to be done correctly.

I could be like all the other people my age at this school, endulging in drunkenness and fornication and not giving it a second thought. I’d be alot less susceptible to this sort of humiliation and condemnation that way. Maybe that’s the solution? I’m tired of exposing myself in such a way to priests who seem to take it so lightly.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Arbitrarily changing the form of the sacrament is playing games with it. It demonstrates a lack of respect of the Church’s law, for the penitent, and most importantly, for Christ and His sacred action in this sacrament.

There’s no scrupulosity in exercising my right to a licit confession.

I have to agree. Perhaps it was a “mistake” the first time the priest did it (unlikely, however), but if he still refused to use the proper form, “I absolve thee, etc.” as taught by Trent and Florence, then I would think that some measure of pertinacity is established.

Imagine if the same priest used improper matter for the Eucharist (e.g. rice instead of wheaton bread), then explained to you that it’s OK, so as his intention was valid.

According to the decree of the Council of Florence, Session 8, 22 Nov 1439:

All these sacraments are made up of three elements: namely, things as the matter, words as the form, and the person of the minister who confers the sacrament with the intention of doing what the church does. If any of these is lacking, the sacrament is not effected.

… [For the sacrament of penance, the] matter is the acts of the penitent, which are threefold. The first is contrition of heart, which includes sorrow for sin committed, with the resolve not to sin again. The second is oral confession, which implies integral confession to the priest of all sins that are remembered. The third is satisfaction for sins in accordance with the judgment of the priest which is ordinarily done by prayer, fasting and almsgiving. The form of this sacrament are the words of absolution which the priest pronounces when he says: I absolve you.

So, it is not an unimportant thing to claim that the intent is all that is necessary for validity.

 

[bilop]

And I’m saying that there’s no scrupulosity in exercising my right to a licit confession. If I had waited, and left with any uncertainty about my absolution, it would have meant that salvation was low on my list of priorities - below my ego. I found it extremely humiliating to go into the rectory and beg the pastor for a confession and then give one face to face to someone who clearly thought I was a nut, but I did it out of the conviction that confession isn’t a joke or a game - that this is the most important thing in the world and it has to be done correctly.

I could be like all the other people my age at this school, endulging in drunkenness and fornication and not giving it a second thought. I’d be alot less susceptible to this sort of humiliation and condemnation that way. Maybe that’s the solution? I’m tired of exposing myself in such a way to priests who seem to take it so lightly.

Dauphin,

Ignore those attacking you or making you out to have a problem.

Abuse of the Sacraments has become so common, it seems, that people believe priests have a **right **to change things.

It is clear that your heart is in the right place, and you understand the importance of our Faith and the Sacraments. It is a tribute to you that you have done so at such a young age. It took me a lot longer.

God Bless

 

[nice2000]

I went to confession today, and it definitely qualifies as the worst experience I’ve had in the confessional.

The priest used a formula of absolution other than the one prescribed by the Church. It went something like:

“I ask God to free you from all your temptations and iniquities…”

Confused by this prayer I had never heard before, and worried that I would not receive the correct formula of absolution, I interrrupted the priest, and asked him to use the correct formula. I accept that this was probably not the best approach, but I was really thrown off by this brand new prayer he had invented. After telling me how rude I was being, and after I apologized to him, the priest then offered me this absolution:

“I ask Christ to absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”

I knew that this wasn’t the correct formula either, but the priest was already upset at me, so I thanked him and went to the rectory to seek a confession from the pastor.

The pastor let me in. I explained what had happened, and he argued with me, telling me that the confession was valid as long as the priest had the correct intention. I responded that the confession might have been valid (since I knew there are different formulas used in the east), but that priests are supposed to use a particular formula, and I wanted absolute certainty that my sins were absolved.

The priest then gave me a confession, using the proper formula, “I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”, and then admonished me not to be “scrupulous”.

Was I wrong to be so insistent on the proper formula of absolution? What would you have done?

Hi Dauphin,

I kind of went thru something similar this past weekend with my confesser. Sometimes I wish I could have the same Priest every weekend…but it seems every first Saturday there’s a different priest.

I did my confession and the priest absolve me of my sins, but only asked me to do two “Our Fathers”.

Do priests ever ask us to do “Hail Mary’s” any more for our sins?

I asked the priest is that all I need to do is two “Our Fathers’s” I was expecting him to say do “three hail Mary’s” as well.

He seemed to get annoyed with me when I asked him the question. He said you are supposed to do that on your own everyday in your daily prayers. I could tell from his voice he did not like the question I asked.

I have noticed in the past six months or say, I have never been asked to do “Hail Mary’s” for my sins. It’s always the “Our Father’s”. Don’t get me wrong, I love saying the Lord’s Prayer, but what about Our Mother?

Is something changing in the Catholic Church?

Are we not to honor Our Mother any longer and ask her to intercede for us for our sins as well?