Bahá'í

[arthra]

PRmerger wrote above:

*"The Catholic view of marriage is that it is a sacrament.

The marital embrace is a manifestation of the sacrament, Servant.

As such, it presupposes the supernatural.

That is why we have such a rich, deep, profound theology of marriage.

It is impossible to talk about the Catholic view of marriage without talking about its supernatural constructs."*

As long as the subject was brought up of marriage I was going to offer the Baha’i view of marriage…

**The marriage of the Bahais means that both man and woman must become spiritually and physically united, so that they may have eternal unity throughout all the divine worlds and improve the spiritual life of each other. This is Bahai matrimony.
**
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v2, p. 325)

The Baha’i ceremony consists of a vow by the couple that they will abide by the will of God in front of two designated witnesses… there is no fee for this service.

Baha’is can marry non-Baha’is but the parents of the prospective bride and groom must give their free consent to the marriage.

 

[PRmerger]

I’ve been a Bahai since I was 15 years old…

What was your faith tradition prior to age 15?

 

[PRmerger]

Which is more important in the sight of God?

The Catholic answer is, typically, both/and. Not either/or.

 

[PRmerger]

**The marriage of the Bahais means that both man and woman must become spiritually and physically united, so that they may have eternal unity throughout all the divine worlds and improve the spiritual life of each other. This is Bahai matrimony.
**
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v2, p. 325)

Beautiful!

So if you are married and your spouse dies you cannot re-marry?

The Baha’i ceremony consists of a vow by the couple that they will abide by the will of God in front of two designated witnesses… there is no fee for this service.

Why would there be a fee for witnesses?

Is there a Baha’i temple that is used?

 

[arthra]

Beautiful!

So if you are married and your spouse dies you cannot re-marry?

Why would there be a fee for witnesses?

Is there a Baha’i temple that is used?

Thanks for your post…

There’s no restriction on marriage after your spouse passes on… this does not mean there cannot be a continuing spiritual bond.

Baha’is have no clergy and so there is no fee involved for a Baha’i marriage. The consultation with the Local Spiritual Assembly is free…

Regarding the question of marriage inside a Baha’i House of Worship the following obtains:

"Many couples who visit the Bahá’í House of Worship and its surrounding gardens see it as an ideal location for their wedding. We are honored to assist couples who wish to utilize the House of Worship for such a special occasion.
Those who are considering the possibility of marrying in these sacred environments are permitted to hold their ceremonies in either Foundation Hall (downstairs) or in the surrounding gardens. No services or ceremonies of any kind other than devotional services are held in the main auditorium, which is dedicated solely to the purpose of prayer and meditation."

bahai.us/bahai-temple/weddings/

There are relatively few Baha’i Houses of Worship* … such as in Wilmette, Illinois, Panama, New Delhi, Stuttgart, *Sydney, Australia, Samoaand soon Santiago, Chile.

Baha’is do sometimes have weddings in Baha’i Centers where available.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

What about Galileo am I supposed to remember exactly? That he proposed an idea that was unpopular because the society at the time accepted Aristotle more than his fairly novel idea which ultimately I believe he could not prove despite being right? Or him actually insulting the pope (who had acted rather friendly to him) who was a good friend of his by portraying him as a clown? Or that he was a very stubborn man and someone you would probably call a hater the moment you could (after all anyone that criticises or has strong opinions is mean and hateful, this is what most Bahai seem to think) Which should I remember about Galileo exactly? That the stereotypical picture of the church of that time as being this bleak monstrosity seeking to destroy everything scientific? Or a medieval society making the best out of what it could and achieving some pretty remarkable things given its circumstance, being afflicted by Plague, Islamic invasion(gasp) and etc? I suppose the latter one in your case.

That being said, God rarely commits miracles but its almost as if you are embarrassed to believe in the virgin birth. Bahai seem to hesitantly admit this miracle happened, what about Moses and the signs given to pharaoh to demonstrate the power of God against the gods of Egypt? What about Jesus healing those whom sought him and defying death by defeating it? Why can’t someone touch Peter’s shadow and be healed in bahai? Why can’t an icon or water or this world be holy and sanctified to God in bahai? Why the need for this dualism in which God seems to hesitantly create a world which he says is imperfect and you need to be free of?

I suppose what Im really asking is why should I be a gnostic/narutalist/bahai over a Christian?

 

[PRmerger]

Thanks for your post…

There’s no restriction on marriage after your spouse passes on… this does not mean there cannot be a continuing spiritual bond.

So one has eternal unity with the spouse who has passed on, but may also be united with another spouse in this life?

I do not mean any disrespect, but does this not seem to be an argument for polygamy? Would not a Baha’i wishing to have 2 wives in this life be able to call this teaching up to support his view: but I am already eternally united to my wife who has passed on. And I am married to my second wife who is living. Why can’t I now be married to another woman?

Baha’is have no clergy and so there is no fee involved for a Baha’i marriage. The consultation with the Local Spiritual Assembly is free…

Regarding the question of marriage inside a Baha’i House of Worship the following obtains:

"Many couples who visit the Bahá’í House of Worship and its surrounding gardens see it as an ideal location for their wedding. We are honored to assist couples who wish to utilize the House of Worship for such a special occasion.
Those who are considering the possibility of marrying in these sacred environments are permitted to hold their ceremonies in either Foundation Hall (downstairs) or in the surrounding gardens. No services or ceremonies of any kind other than devotional services are held in the main auditorium, which is dedicated solely to the purpose of prayer and meditation."

bahai.us/bahai-temple/weddings/

There are relatively few Baha’i Houses of Worship* … such as in Wilmette, Illinois, Panama, New Delhi, Stuttgart, *Sydney, Australia, Samoaand soon Santiago, Chile.

Baha’is do sometimes have weddings in Baha’i Centers where available.

Ah. Interesting.

 

[daler]

So one has eternal unity with the spouse who has passed on, but may also be united with another spouse in this life?

I do not mean any disrespect, but does this not seem to be an argument for polygamy? Would not a Baha’i wishing to have 2 wives in this life be able to call this teaching up to support his view: but I am already eternally united to my wife who has passed on. And I am married to my second wife who is living. Why can’t I now be married to another woman?

Ah. Interesting.

PR Abraham had 3 wives. Sarah, Hagar, and Katurah. From these three wives came the prophets of Israel, Christianity, and Islam. So out of Abraham’s polygamy came the three great religions.
I’m not arguing for polygamy, but historically it is there in this context and cannot be ignored.
Among cultures where war killed off huge numbers of the men, there were always an excess of women who, according to the hardships of the times, would not survive unless somehow attached to men.
There were also shortages of men in certain Island cultures where the men often went out to sea and did not return. Thus, matriarchal societies emerged for stability of the family.
When we all get our act together I suspect that we can live happily ever after…

 

[PRmerger]

PR Abraham had 3 wives. Sarah, Hagar, and Katurah. From these three wives came the prophets of Israel, Christianity, and Islam. So out of Abraham’s polygamy came the three great religions.
I’m not arguing for polygamy, but historically it is there in this context and cannot be ignored.
Among cultures where war killed off huge numbers of the men, there were always an excess of women who, according to the hardships of the times, would not survive unless somehow attached to men.
There were also shortages of men in certain Island cultures where the men often went out to sea and did not return. Thus, matriarchal societies emerged for stability of the family.
When we all get our act together I suspect that we can live happily ever after…

So am I to understand that the Baha’i faith supports polygamy, given that they believe in marriage for eternity, while also allowing a widow/widower to re-marry?

 

[ChristianBahai]

PR it all depends on the capacities of the tester.

Give a water melon to a grower that has lived and adored water melons for all their lives, then they will know a good water melon the moment they see it.
Give a watermelon to me, on the other hand, and I can spend a month with 2 watermelons and I’ll still open the tasteless one

The value of spirituality is important in recognition. I am surprised that you placed so much emphasis on the value of the lovers embrace. For Baha’is spiritual love, spiritual embrace, TRUMPS physical love, physical embrace by a country mile!

Spirituality trumps the physical by a country mile. God is spirit.

So for those that have sufficient detachment from physical things and have turned their hearts towards the grace of the Father, NOT defiled by worldly, physical, attachments will easily recognize the Prophet/Manifestation of God.

Why did the apostles recognize Jesus yet the Pharisees did not?
What were some of the reasons for this?

WELL SAID Servant! God is spirit. Which makes Jesus’ resurrection spiritual and not physical as Church leaders would have us believe! Jesus did not and does not need his physical body in Heaven. Church leaders chose to make it physical to enhance Christ’s divinity. Christ NEVER spoke of any physical resurrection. Christ in His very last words on earth, at the crucifixion, emphasized this principle once again: “And when nJesus had cried with a loud voice, he siad, Father, into thy hands I commend my SPIRIT…” His spirit, NOT his body. God has stated this truth through the words of Baha’u’llah.

With love & respect - ChristianBahai

 

[PRmerger]

WELL SAID Servant! God is spirit. Which makes Jesus’ resurrection spiritual and not physical as Church leaders would have us believe! Jesus did not and does not need his physical body in Heaven. Church leaders chose to make it physical to enhance Christ’s divinity. Christ NEVER spoke of any physical resurrection. Christ in His very last words on earth, at the crucifixion, emphasized this principle once again: “And when nJesus had cried with a loud voice, he siad, Father, into thy hands I commend my SPIRIT…” His spirit, NOT his body. God has stated this truth through the words of Baha’u’llah.

With love & respect - ChristianBahai

This is simply a re-warming of an ancient heresy called Gnosticism.

Incidentally,
Your premise: God is spirit
does not lead to your conclusion: which makes Jesus’ resurrection spiritual and not physical.

 

[Servant19]

So am I to understand that the Baha’i faith supports polygamy, given that they believe in marriage for eternity, while also allowing a widow/widower to re-marry?

No the Bahai Faith does not endorse polygamy

You will never see a Bahai with more than one wife…

 

[Servant19]

This is simply a re-warming of an ancient heresy called Gnosticism.

Incidentally,
Your premise: God is spirit
does not lead to your conclusion: which makes Jesus’ resurrection spiritual and not physical.

The Bahai Faith has nothing to do with Gnosticism. The shunning of the material world is not encouraged at all. Baha’is believe that the material world is a symbolic representation of the spiritual world, a world which is true reality, a world which we enter upon death, a world where the Eternal Identity of Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, the Bab and Bahaullah can be encountered more fully.

Baha’is are encouraged to interact and engage with the material world, especially other human beings in order to find points of spiritual union with others, working tirelessly to serve others so that this union can be fostered, nurtured and developed towards a common purpose, that of, union with their mutual Creator.

If shunning of the material world is not encouraged in Catholicism, PR, why then is the monastic lifestyle not heretical also? (And that’s a question asked with utmost respect )

 

[arthra]

So am I to understand that the Baha’i faith supports polygamy, given that they believe in marriage for eternity, while also allowing a widow/widower to re-marry?

Sounds like the question the Sadducees asked Jesus …

As to polygamy:

Know thou that polygamy is not permitted under the law of
God, for contentment with one wife hath been clearly stipulated.

~ Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 205

 

[PRmerger]

No the Bahai Faith does not endorse polygamy

You will never see a Bahai with more than one wife…

Sounds like the question the Sadducees asked Jesus …

As to polygamy:

Know thou that polygamy is not permitted under the law of
God, for contentment with one wife hath been clearly stipulated.

~ Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 205

Both of you have not addressed the question. How can the Baha’i faith be against polygamy when it professes that marriage is for eternity, yet also allows a widow/widower to re-marry?

 

[PRmerger]

Sounds like the question the Sadducees asked Jesus …

Well, I hope you give an answer that sounds like Jesus.

 

[PRmerger]

If shunning of the material world is not encouraged in Catholicism, PR, why then is the monastic lifestyle not heretical also? (And that’s a question asked with utmost respect )

Because that is not Gnosticism which you are presenting.

Catholicism rejects Gnosticism, which proclaims that the body is evil and that it is only the spirit that is of import.

When you profess that the marital embrace is a fleshy indulgence and that the spiritual aspect is what unites, you are simply re-hashing that aged lie.

 

[Servant19]

Both of you have not addressed the question. How can the Baha’i faith be against polygamy when it professes that marriage is for eternity, yet also allows a widow/widower to re-marry?

PR, where do you get the understanding that should I re-marry after the death if my wife that this is termed polygamy???

Baha’is believe the union between man and wife is an eternal one in the spiritual realms of God. Should my wife die and I remarry, I guess there is provision for me to be eternally united with two souls through all the spiritual worlds of God.

I am also told that I will have intimate union with ALL my loved ones in the spiritual worlds, sounds like bliss to me

I know what you’re thinking, how will he ever survive with two wives in the Last Days. Right?

 

[PRmerger]

PR, where do you get the understanding that should I re-marry after the death if my wife that this is termed polygamy???

Baha’is believe the union between man and wife is an eternal one in the spiritual realms of God. Should my wife die and I remarry, I guess there is provision for me to be eternally united with two souls through all the spiritual worlds of God.

I am also told that I will have intimate union with ALL my loved ones in the spiritual worlds, sounds like bliss to me

I know what you’re thinking, how will he ever survive with two wives in the Last Days. Right?

So if you re-marry, and you are already eternally married to your deceased wife, then you are married to 2 women.

That’s polygamy.

Is that not correct?

 

[Servant19]

Because that is not Gnosticism which you are presenting.

Catholicism rejects Gnosticism, which proclaims that the body is evil and that it is only the spirit that is of import.

When you profess that the marital embrace is a fleshy indulgence and that the spiritual aspect is what unites, you are simply re-hashing that aged lie.

No the Bahai Faith in no way proclaims the human body/temple is a source of evil

I will reiterate again, it was you who implied that it was a fleshy indulgence, not me. I called it a deep, profound, spiritual and moving experience which can be experienced between man and wife WITHOUT the physical embrace…if you haven’t experienced anything extremely profound with your spouse unless you are in the bedroom, then this is sad for you…

Again I reiterate, show me how the PHYSICAL act of embracing between man and wife is any different with the PHYSICAL act of embracing between drunken lusters.

Give me one piece of evidence please