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Mickey
Guest
If you read my post, I said that I found the statements on the internet. Please do not call me a liar–they are not my statements.
- Status
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Mickey
Guest
Well you have offended me. They were not my statements. You seem to enjoy throwing stones.
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Mickey
Guest
Glory be to God:
Jesus, the Word incarnate, the Son of God, is the proof!
No. The Son of God did not need to perform miracles, but He did anyway.
Jesus, the Word incarnate, the Son of God, is the proof!
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Mickey
Guest
My thoughts as well.
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kernk
Guest
To be fair to Bruce, I believe he said, “your statement echoes a lie” not that your statement was a lie. Echoes would, I suggest, be recognition that your source was the problem, not yourself.If you read my post, I said that I found the statements on the internet. Please do not call me a liar–they are not my statements.
kernk
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Mickey
Guest
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Mickey
Guest
:bigyikes: This is why so many consider your organization to be a cult.
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kernk
Guest
You are of course entitled to your opinion. Personally I am not sure that you have researched the Baha’i Faith enough to come to such a conclusion. What you suggest would be much like saying that Jesus was just taking what He liked about Judaism and changing the rest to suit His purposes – like laws on divorce, “an eye for an eye,” dietary laws, Sabbath laws, fasting laws, laws of sacrifice, etc. To make such a statement about Jesus would be to completely miss His message, just as to make such a statement about the Bahá’í Faith and Bahá’u’lláh would be to completely miss His message.
kernk
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Mickey
Guest
I am now leaving this thread. To all the Baha’is who have migrated here, I leave you with these words from two of the Church Fathers. I pray that you can find your way back to Christianity:
“A false prophet will prophesy concerning the Antichrist saying he is Christ and he himself will try to convince everyone that he is Christ.”
St. Ambrose of Milan
“Do not leave the Church, for there is nothing mightier than She; She will never grow old and will always bloom; thus the Scriptures, showing Her durability and stability, calls Her a mountain.”
St. John of Chrysostom
May the peace and love of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, be with all of you.
Mickey
“A false prophet will prophesy concerning the Antichrist saying he is Christ and he himself will try to convince everyone that he is Christ.”
St. Ambrose of Milan
“Do not leave the Church, for there is nothing mightier than She; She will never grow old and will always bloom; thus the Scriptures, showing Her durability and stability, calls Her a mountain.”
St. John of Chrysostom
May the peace and love of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, be with all of you.
Mickey
K
kernk
Guest
Mickey said:
Indeed, as the Jews considered the followers of Jesus to be a dangerous cult. Once the claim was made and once investigated, people embraced Jesus. But it took hundreds of years for enough to see the Truth in His message. Bahá’u’lláh has made the claim, as Jesus did. It is up to each of us to investigate it and decide for ourselves if it is valid. A cursory rejection is not investigation – plenty of Jews did that to Jesus.
There are the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh available to all: reference.bahai.org/en/
There are Books on Bible Prophecy and Bahá’u’lláh available to all:
“God Speaks Again: An Introduction to the Bahá’í Faith,” By Kenneth E. Bowers. Published by Bahá’í Publishing.
“Thief in the Night,” By William Sears. Published by George Ronald.
“I Shall Come Again,” By Hushidar Motlagh. Published by Global Perspective.
“The Kitab-i-Iqan: The Book of Certitude,” By Bahá’u’lláh. Published by the Bahá’í Publishing Trust. Also published by Bahá’í Publishing.
“Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”
(1 Thessalonians 5:19-21)
kernk
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BruceDLimber
Guest
Hi, Lillith!
Lillith:
Lillith:
The literal meaning of “jihad” is “struggle.”
And in fact, Muslims recognize two forms of jihad.
The GREATER JIHAD is indeed the struggle to control and discipline oneself (obviously applicable to everyone all the time)!
And the warfare form of jihad (which seems to be the meaning you associate with this word) is in fact refered to in Islam as the “lesser jihad.”
So I think it’s important in this respect to remember where the emphasis actually lies!
And this is the more so because (as I already pointed out), Muyhammad and the Qur’an allow DEFENSIVE warfare ONLY, and command that of one’s opponent puts down his weapon, YOU must immediately do likewise!
(And as a most apropos ending,)
Peace.
Bruce
They’re always most welcome!
I see Art already answered your other questions, and I endorse his answers, so I’ll simply add a note to this one:
The literal meaning of “jihad” is “struggle.”
And in fact, Muslims recognize two forms of jihad.
The GREATER JIHAD is indeed the struggle to control and discipline oneself (obviously applicable to everyone all the time)!
And the warfare form of jihad (which seems to be the meaning you associate with this word) is in fact refered to in Islam as the “lesser jihad.”
So I think it’s important in this respect to remember where the emphasis actually lies!
And this is the more so because (as I already pointed out), Muyhammad and the Qur’an allow DEFENSIVE warfare ONLY, and command that of one’s opponent puts down his weapon, YOU must immediately do likewise!
(And as a most apropos ending,)
Peace.
Bruce
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Lillith
Guest
Well. What does a person say to that? It was like pulling teeth to get that admission…here in synapsis is what I gather.Did Baha’u’llah claim to be Jesus Christ?
The short answer is yes.
Baha’is believe Christ has returned. Baha’u’llah announced to the rulers of Europe around 1868-1871 that He was the spiritual return of Christ:
See:
bahai-library.com/?file=bradford_christ_tablet_pope
- Art
Baha’u’llah teaches that Jesus was not God, and that is the way that he convinces others to believe that he is Jesus…it makes up for is unGodliness. He teaches that there is no reincarnation, except in his case, because his second coming he was born of some lady in Iran. He believes that all scripture is inspired…unless that scripture disagrees with what he believes…and you have a book that he wrote to prove it.
It has been very interesting …never heard of this religion before, and you have been most pleasant to correspond with, but believe me it has been difficult! I see errors in Baha’u’llah…But so must Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Islam…
God Bless…
B
BruceDLimber
Guest
Greetings!
Lillith:
Lillith:
where you’ll find that PLENTY of prophecies remained!
I put it to you that God’s love–and hence, His guidance to humanity–will never end! . . .
Peace,
Bruce
Uh, please note that NEITHER a period nor an exclamation point was probably in the original, so that this is pure extrapolation, INCLUDING your “was actually” above! You may be right or wrong, but it’s extrapolation either way.
I’m afraid you’re ignoring the words of Jesus Himself, Who, in John, said that He had many more things to tell us, but we weren’t ready! So He promised to send the Spirit of Truth to lead us to all truth. (And yes, I know Christians take this to mean only the Holy Spirit.) In the Baha’i view, it is Baha’u’llah (our Founder) Who is this Spirit of Truth! And there are many, many prophecies of Baha’u’llah and the Baha’i Faith in both the Tanach (Jewish scriptures) and the New Testament, which IOV He has fulfilled! So I refer you for the details to:
Code:
[bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled](http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled)I put it to you that God’s love–and hence, His guidance to humanity–will never end! . . .
Peace,
Bruce
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BruceDLimber
Guest
You are welcome to your opinion.I will stick to the Bible without it’s proofs of Baha’u’llah and the Baha’i faith because the Bible does not prove those things–no matter how you attempt to twist Scripture.
But I will just note that the fulfilled prophecies are there whether you care to admit this or not! As a few million people have already noticed, BTW.
No “twisting” is necessary, thank you. And I decline to try to match your use of loaded terminology.
BTW (and meaning no offense), unless and until you can explain how and why Baha’u’llah PASSES the critical test in First John 4:2 if He’s in fact not of God, I fear you’re just blowing hot air. (If you want quotations about what He’s said about Christ, I’ll be most happy to post them.)
Peace,
Bruce
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BruceDLimber
Guest
I didn’t.If you read my post, I said that I found the statements on the internet. Please do not call me a liar–they are not my statements.
I said you were ECHOING a lie, which is indeed true.
Sorry if the truth hurts.
Bruce
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BruceDLimber
Guest
I can assure you I don’t!Well you have offended me. They were not my statements. You seem to enjoy throwing stones.
And all I can say is that my point holds (and you didn’t refute it).
Nor, please note, can I tell what is and is not your own words since all I can see is what you actually post! Unless you put a citation on it, I’m forced to assume it’s something you want to say yourself. I would humbly suggest that if you don’t want a statement you post to be associated with you, then you need to state that it’s a quote (or cite it) or otherwise disassociate yourself from it.
And might I humbly suggest that conversations (here and everywhere) work far better if all concerned avoid going around with a chip on the shoulder?
Thank you.
Bruce
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BruceDLimber
Guest
Mickey said:
I will simply point out that knowledeable people do not, in part for the reasons I posted in #75 above.
So I refer you to that.
Bruce
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Mickey
Guest
Before I shake off the dust, I wanted to post some info that I found regarding this strange cult:
The Baha’i Faith teaches that there have been nine manifestations of God on the earth, namely Krishna, Abraham, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab, Baha’u’llah. These messengers are referred to as “perfect and stainless souls”. (BF p.40 and 41). Baha’is go so far as to say that (God)…“hath ordained the knowledge of these sanctified Beings to be identical with the knowledge of his own self.” (BF p.41)
To the Christian, this is blasphemy. Christ alone is unique and perfect. He is the only sinless one. Christ alone is the mediator between God and man. 1 Timothy 2:5 reads,
"For there is one God and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
There is none greater than Jesus Christ, who is Almighty God (Revelation 1:8). He alone is God incarnate, the only manifestation of the one God.
Statements of the Baha’is such as “Each time such a manifestation appears on earth, it is as if the spirit of all the former manifestations return with him.” (BF p.41) smack of Eastern reincarnation and border on the occult.
Christians are well warned in 2 Corinthians 11:4,
"There will be those coming to you preaching ANOTHER JESUS whom we have not preached…"
Truly, the Baha’i Faith preaches another Jesus, and not the Jesus Christ of the Bible and Christianity. Remember Christians, if you have the right Jesus Christ you are right for all eternity, but if you have the wrong Jesus Christ, you are wrong for all eternity!
The Baha’i Faith considers the scriptures of all the world’s religions as sacred. They point out, however, that all religions go through the stages of birth, growth, and decay. Page 42 of “The Baha’i Faith” goes on to say, "When the period of decay is reached, a new seed is planted in the hearts of men by a new messenger and a new growth begins."
What they are really saying is that the Bible, and Jesus Christ have decayed and we now must turn to their prophet Baha’u’llah and his writings! Christians beware of those who would tamper with the eternal word found in the Bible. Psalms 119:89 says, "Forever, O LORD, Thy word is settled in heaven."
Quoting from a tablet of Abdu’l-Baha we read,
"And whatsoever people turneth its heart away from this Divine Love–the revelation of the Merciful–shall err grievously, shall fall into despair, and be utterly destroyed. That people shall be denied all refuge, shall become even as the vilest creatures of the earth, victims of degradation and shame." (BF p.38).
Therefore, we can only conclude that those rejecting the Baha’i Faith are considered vile, degraded, and shameful and worthy of destruction. Indeed, this group is not what it seems. It is not all-loving and all-accepting of other faiths. That is just a ploy to attract the unwary. Once in, the follower is bound by many regulations and rules peculiar to the Baha’is. The follower finds himself in a cult misrepresenting Jesus Christ.
The Baha’i Faith teaches that there have been nine manifestations of God on the earth, namely Krishna, Abraham, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab, Baha’u’llah. These messengers are referred to as “perfect and stainless souls”. (BF p.40 and 41). Baha’is go so far as to say that (God)…“hath ordained the knowledge of these sanctified Beings to be identical with the knowledge of his own self.” (BF p.41)
To the Christian, this is blasphemy. Christ alone is unique and perfect. He is the only sinless one. Christ alone is the mediator between God and man. 1 Timothy 2:5 reads,
"For there is one God and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
There is none greater than Jesus Christ, who is Almighty God (Revelation 1:8). He alone is God incarnate, the only manifestation of the one God.
Statements of the Baha’is such as “Each time such a manifestation appears on earth, it is as if the spirit of all the former manifestations return with him.” (BF p.41) smack of Eastern reincarnation and border on the occult.
Christians are well warned in 2 Corinthians 11:4,
"There will be those coming to you preaching ANOTHER JESUS whom we have not preached…"
Truly, the Baha’i Faith preaches another Jesus, and not the Jesus Christ of the Bible and Christianity. Remember Christians, if you have the right Jesus Christ you are right for all eternity, but if you have the wrong Jesus Christ, you are wrong for all eternity!
The Baha’i Faith considers the scriptures of all the world’s religions as sacred. They point out, however, that all religions go through the stages of birth, growth, and decay. Page 42 of “The Baha’i Faith” goes on to say, "When the period of decay is reached, a new seed is planted in the hearts of men by a new messenger and a new growth begins."
What they are really saying is that the Bible, and Jesus Christ have decayed and we now must turn to their prophet Baha’u’llah and his writings! Christians beware of those who would tamper with the eternal word found in the Bible. Psalms 119:89 says, "Forever, O LORD, Thy word is settled in heaven."
Quoting from a tablet of Abdu’l-Baha we read,
"And whatsoever people turneth its heart away from this Divine Love–the revelation of the Merciful–shall err grievously, shall fall into despair, and be utterly destroyed. That people shall be denied all refuge, shall become even as the vilest creatures of the earth, victims of degradation and shame." (BF p.38).
Therefore, we can only conclude that those rejecting the Baha’i Faith are considered vile, degraded, and shameful and worthy of destruction. Indeed, this group is not what it seems. It is not all-loving and all-accepting of other faiths. That is just a ploy to attract the unwary. Once in, the follower is bound by many regulations and rules peculiar to the Baha’is. The follower finds himself in a cult misrepresenting Jesus Christ.
9
9Harmony
Guest
Hi Mickey,No. The Son of God did not need to perform miracles, but He did anyway.
Jesus, the Word incarnate, the Son of God, is the proof!
Exactly! The proof of their station lies in their life, their character, and their teachings. The proof is in the person themselves.
The same holds true for Baha’u’llah as well.
A
arthra
Guest
Mickey and Lillith …
Good corresponding with you and hope we can have some more conversation soon!
I was thinking earlier before i posted here how the great Messengers of God have been derided and persecuted most of their lives…
Baha’u’llah explained Who He was while He was imprisoned and exiled… not a very secure place at all. His life could have been snuffed out as easily as lighted candle, but oddly this didn’t happen and His words continued and the candle kept burning inspite of everything around that militated against it.
Baha’u’llah gained nothing personally for making these claims. He could have lived a life of relative luxery and ease as a nobleman in the court of the Shah but He chose to walk the path of thorns and derision…
God bless you.
Good corresponding with you and hope we can have some more conversation soon!
I was thinking earlier before i posted here how the great Messengers of God have been derided and persecuted most of their lives…
Baha’u’llah explained Who He was while He was imprisoned and exiled… not a very secure place at all. His life could have been snuffed out as easily as lighted candle, but oddly this didn’t happen and His words continued and the candle kept burning inspite of everything around that militated against it.
Baha’u’llah gained nothing personally for making these claims. He could have lived a life of relative luxery and ease as a nobleman in the court of the Shah but He chose to walk the path of thorns and derision…
God bless you.
- Art
- Status