Baha'i: Jesus Claims to be God (and how do you respond to those claims?)

[Servant19]

Its written, by the power of the Holy Spirit-Luke- "The Holy Spirit will come to you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, the holy child developing inside you will be called the Son of God.

And now you know why He is called Son of God.

And where does it say that the Holy Spirit is God?

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[Servant19]

Avoiding the question. Is what the nicene council said about God true ontologically? It’s not a hard question for those unafraid of offending people.

I’ve already answered that Ignatian.

I made a statement. I believe that God predominantly reveals epistemological Truth.

So no, Nicea was not ontological Truth.

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[Kurisu35712]

And where does it say that the Holy Spirit is God?

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Again, this is all central to belief in the Trinity.

 

[GaryTaylor]

And where does it say that the Holy Spirit is God?

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Genesis 1:2 “and the spirit of God moved over the waters”

And in the Church which came before the Bible. Sola Scriptura is a protestant dilemma which you simply became part of. Its rejected by the Church and I linked all this for you.

Your on a perpetual circular argument.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Gabriel for instance is symbolic of the Holy Spirit according to Baha’i but they would question the Holy Spirit being from God in Luke. But you don’t believe the Holy Spirit is God?

You’ll have to elaborate. Whats symbolic and literal?

So according to Baha’l men become Angels like Gabriel and then overpower a women and have many supernatural children. You see you don’t deny this part only that God is Jesus.

 

[Servant19]

Genesis 1:2 “and the spirit of God moved over the waters”

And in the Church which came before the Bible. Sola Scriptura is a protestant dilemma which you simply became part of. Its rejected by the Church and I linked all this for you.

Your on a perpetual circular argument.

Yes the Holy Spirit emanates FROM God, that doesn’t make Him God.

Light rays emanate FROM the Sun, that does make the light rays the Sun…

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[Servant19]

Again, this is all central to belief in the Trinity.

If it’s so central, the first known Christian Writings would state it categorically.

Did the Apostle Paul state such a central teaching?

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[GaryTaylor]

Yes the Holy Spirit emanates FROM God, that doesn’t make Him God.

Light rays emanate FROM the Sun, that does make the light rays the Sun…

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So according to Baha’l men become Angels like Gabriel and then overpower a women and have many supernatural children. You see you don’t deny this part only that God is Jesus.

 

[Servant19]

So according to Baha’l men become Angels like Gabriel and then overpower a women and have many supernatural children. You see you don’t deny this part only that God is Jesus.

Here you go again Gary, making false conclusions.

I can only pray.

I believe James, brother of Jesus’, knees were battered from praying for those who made false accusations and conclusions based on ignorance.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Here you go again Gary, making false conclusions.

I can only pray.

I believe James, brother of Jesus’, knees were battered from praying for those who made false accusations and conclusions based on ignorance.

I pray for you too with yours. But I see no reason why I can’t reach logical conclusions just as you do. Your accusations of Christ are false to us, you understand this right?

So according to Baha’l men become Angels like Gabriel and then overpower a women and have many supernatural children. You see you don’t deny this part only that God is Jesus.

So since this rings of Joe Smith care to explain in your words what happened in Luke?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Here you go again Gary, making false conclusions.

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Truly Servant, if CAF gave out awards for double standards you would get my vote.

So now you deny the Incarnation, or no? What happened from your view. You tell us in your own words, because I don’t want to contradict the oh so many contradictions. Maybe we can see your thinking through your own words elaborated on.

When men become angels Servant do they still have free-will?

 

[Techno2000]

Truly Servant, if CAF gave out awards for double standards you would get my vote.

So now you deny the Incarnation, or no? What happened from your view. You tell us in your own words, because I don’t want to contradict the oh so many contradictions. Maybe we can see your thinking through your own words elaborated on.

When men become angels Servant do they still have free-will?

I’m kinda with Servant19 on this one…When men become angels Servant do they still have free-will? isn’t that Mormonism?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Servant continues his contradictions and calls it logic.

Baha’u’llah did not deny the Incarnation of the Word of God. That is consistent with Baha’i belief. How is that twisting things?

I don’t know how I can be more clear.

Jesus never talked about an Incarnation. Neither did Baha’u’llah. It is a man-made concept

I do not follow the 10 Commandments

Here Servant there is no-one here who understands what your saying. And further you fail to address Gods attributes in relation to good. Whats good to you, a man made paradigm not of God.

 

[Servant19]

Servant continues his contradictions and calls it logic.

Here Servant there is no-one here who understands what your saying. And further you fail to address Gods attributes in relation to good. Whats good to you, a man made paradigm not of God.

Now now Gary that’s cheating

You know full well I was talking about an incarnation of God, not the Word of God (you quoted me on post #216 which is seen to quote you talking about the Incarnation of GOD, not the Incarnation of the WORD OF GOD)

Let me make it clear for you in capital letters

Bahais believe Jesus and Bahaullah to be AN INCARNATION OF THE WORD OF GOD, NOT AN INCARNATION OF GOD

Hope this ends this constant playing of words
My apologies if this was not clear in the first place, I think it was to all fair minded observers of post #216

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[GaryTaylor]

Let me make it clear for you in capital letters

Bahais believe Jesus and Bahaullah to be AN INCARNATION OF THE WORD OF GOD, NOT AN INCARNATION OF GOD

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So what do you believe about the Incarnation, Jesus was created, yes we all got that. So what are you saying, that part is absent. And lets be real, its a contradiction here…

Jesus never talked about an Incarnation. Neither did Baha’u’llah. It is a man-made concept

 

[Techno2000]

Yes the Holy Spirit emanates FROM God, that doesn’t make Him God.

Light rays emanate FROM the Sun, that does make the light rays the Sun…

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The Holy Spirit is much,much more… than a ray of light.:

But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

 

[Servant19]

The Holy Spirit is much,much more… than a ray of light.:

But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

I never said the Holy Spirit was a ray of light

Did you not see it as an analogy?

 

[Servant19]

So what do you believe about the Incarnation, Jesus was created, yes we all got that. So what are you saying, that part is absent. And lets be real, its a contradiction here…

What Bahais believe is in this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=871718&highlight=Bahai+cosmology



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[IgnatianPhilo]

I’ve already answered that Ignatian.

I made a statement. I believe that God predominantly reveals epistemological Truth.

So no, Nicea was not ontological Truth.

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You defined epistemological truth as basically progressive revelation. You said nicaea was epistemologically true. You then said God gives us the right doctrine at the right time in history. But then you end with saying Nicaea was not ontologically true? So in what possible sense was nicaea epistomologically true? Your definition being revealed truths and moving from immaturity into maturity. Trinity since it was not in any sense true according to you could not be epistemologically true. In fact it is if not ontologically correct, false.

At this point I don’t think you yourself know what your own words mean.

BUT since you have said nicaea was true for the time, you must agree as per your logic, we had a fuller and more real vision of God than the unitarian jews? This is however difficult for me to see you believing since ba has are unitariana themselves. Return to the theological chalkboard or at least say nicaea was wrong in every way.

 

[Servant19]

You defined epistemological truth as basically progressive revelation. You said nicaea was epistemologically true. You then said God gives us the right doctrine at the right time in history. But then you end with saying Nicaea was not ontologically true? So in what possible sense was nicaea epistomologically true? Your definition being revealed truths and moving from immaturity into maturity. Trinity since it was not in any sense true according to you could not be epistemologically true. In fact it is if not ontologically correct, false.

At this point I don’t think you yourself know what your own words mean.

BUT since you have said nicaea was true for the time, you must agree as per your logic, we had a fuller and more real vision of God than the unitarian jews? This is however difficult for me to see you believing since ba has are unitariana themselves. Return to the theological chalkboard or at least say nicaea was wrong in every way.

Yes for the first time in history, people were enabled to worship a Person, who provided an example of human conduct and works in Jesus Christ, without it being deemed the worship of an idol.

Bahais would say that this is Truth. Bahais do exactly the same in the Person of Bahaullah

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