BAHA'I thread III - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions

[tonyfish58]

Some one has probably already asked you this, but what is your favorite aspect of your faith or which thing do you treasure the most about your faith?

If your up to it. Why should someone convert to your faith? What makes it better then christianity? What parts are similar to Christianity

Protestor - They are great questions, questions to spark my first response on this Forum

My Favorite Aspect re the Baha’i Faith would have to be the Principal of Oneness. That is God is One, Man is One, and all the Religions are One. That all the messengers of these Great Religions of God, are of the Same One Spirit.

Why should someone convert to your faith? That would be entirely up to each individual to search and make there own decision about. All a Baha’i could do is explain why they have done so. I could add a meditation to this question and pose the question why did the Jews not accept Christ?

What makes it better then Christianity? I would not imply that the Baha’i Faith is better then Christianity. I would explain that it is the Fulfillment of Christianity. This would be better explained if I was to ask the Question “What Makes Christianity Better than Judaism”. A new Faith is born out of all that proceeded it. This does not mean it is better, it means that the Faith is still growing needing what the past has taught us as we move on into the future. We do not forget our past learning, we renew it and learn more!

What parts are similar to Christianity? As all Religion is one we share a great many things, the basic virtues of life are taught and maintained. We can all share the virtues of life and do unto each other as we should What usually changes is the laws for the age in which it was revealed. Progressive Revelation is the keyword here, as mankind grows in capacity to know and love God, God sends His messenger to guide us on our next stage of life.

God bless and thank you for the questions.

Regards Tony

 

[AveChriste11]

Protestor,
.

. Baha’is really do not “convert” as such, for we all retain our beliefs, such as in Christ, and Jews or Muslims who become Baha’is do so by recognizing Christ as the Messiah, while upon independently investigating the claims and reading the Writings of Baha’u’llah come to believe that He truly is the One foretold.

. There is a continuation of God’s message, through His Messengers, in a process of “progressive revelation” in which each of the Prophets lays the foundation for the next, as teachers in the same school. The religion of Abraham was preparatory for the time of Moses, whose foundation was laid for the coming of Jesus, the Christ.

You can maintain a belief in Christ, but that doesn’t mean one is still a Christian. What the Baha’i’s believe about Christ is very different from say what Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics, or Protestants believe. Therefore in another sense, you have converted… because you are no longer what you were.

Although I understand the point of… “One cannot be a Baha’i without acknowledging Muhammad, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster.” as I believe someone even of Jewish background was inquiring Abdu’l Baha once about becoming Baha’i, but didn’t care for Jesus. Abdul told him that he must come to terms with Jesus too… just as those from a Christian background must come to terms with how they see Muhammad, whom they once regarded as false.

 

[arthra]

You can maintain a belief in Christ, but that doesn’t mean one is still a Christian. What the Baha’i’s believe about Christ is very different from say what Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics, or Protestants believe. Therefore in another sense, you have converted… because you are no longer what you were.

Although I understand the point of… “One cannot be a Baha’i without acknowledging Muhammad, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster.” as I believe someone even of Jewish background was inquiring Abdu’l Baha once about becoming Baha’i, but didn’t care for Jesus. Abdul told him that he must come to terms with Jesus too… just as those from a Christian background must come to terms with how they see Muhammad, whom they once regarded as false.

It’s also true that when we become Baha’is we are no longer members of churches nor do we claim to be Christians.

You make a valid point that when we become Baha’is our attitudes about the past Manifestations changes and hopefully there can be renewed respect and appreciate for Them.

 

[SteveVH]

You can maintain a belief in Christ, but that doesn’t mean one is still a Christian. What the Baha’i’s believe about Christ is very different from say what Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics, or Protestants believe. Therefore in another sense, you have converted… because you are no longer what you were.

Although I understand the point of… “One cannot be a Baha’i without acknowledging Muhammad, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster.” as I believe someone even of Jewish background was inquiring Abdu’l Baha once about becoming Baha’i, but didn’t care for Jesus. Abdul told him that he must come to terms with Jesus too… just as those from a Christian background must come to terms with how they see Muhammad, whom they once regarded as false.

After reading and participating in 2000 posts on this subject, my conclusion is that the Baha’i religion is a religion of compromise where unity is seen as the supreme good, at the expense, however, of the truth.

A Muslim cannot accept either the crucifixion or the resurrection of Jesus; the very heart of Christianity. A Christian cannot accept any faith tradition that proposes the need for anyone in addition to Christ, especially one like Muhammad who directly rejects Christ’s saving work. Yet we are to come together under Baha’u’llah, somehow setting these foundational doctrinal differences aside for the sake of unity.

Inherent within the Baha’i faith tradition is the assertion that none of the major religions of the world have ever really understood the truth of their own prophets. It is a type of universal Protestantism in which they have borrowed from nearly all religions of the world while simultaneously rejecting the core beliefs of each.

A Christian considering the Baha’i faith would be considering the rejection of the saving power of Christ, the one, true Word of God, in favor of the promise of an earthly utopia. It is a pseudo-messianism, if you will, in which we are saved by human institutions like the United Nations and World Courts, etc…

The Baha’i faith was started in the mid-19th century by a Muslim man with human parents . He had no holes in his hands or his feet, nor any wound in his side. He did not give his life for the world. He is not the Paschal Lamb. And he did not rise from the dead, rather his body has long since decayed in the ground and we can visit his grave site. He will arise, to his own dismay, when the second coming actually occurs, however he will be subject to judgment along with the rest of us.

One who claims to be the second coming of Christ is an impostor, whether through intent or delusion, and we have been warned.

We have many areas in which we can work together for the betterment of this world. But we, as Christians, can never compromise the Truth found in God’s only Word, Jesus Christ. We seek no one else. We wait to meet him face to face in his heavenly kingdom.

 

[AveChriste11]

After reading and participating in 2000 posts on this subject, my conclusion is that the Baha’i religion is a religion of compromise where unity is seen as the supreme good, at the expense, however, of the truth.

A Muslim cannot accept either the crucifixion or the resurrection of Jesus; the very heart of Christianity. A Christian cannot accept any faith tradition that proposes the need for anyone in addition to Christ, especially one like Muhammad who directly rejects Christ’s saving work. Yet we are to come together under Baha’u’llah, somehow setting these foundational doctrinal differences aside for the sake of unity.

Inherent within the Baha’i faith tradition is the assertion that none of the major religions of the world have ever really understood the truth of their own prophets. It is a type of universal Protestantism in which they have borrowed from nearly all religions of the world while simultaneously rejecting the core beliefs of each.

A Christian considering the Baha’i faith would be considering the rejection of the saving power of Christ, the one, true Word of God, in favor of the promise of an earthly utopia. It is a pseudo-messianism, if you will, in which we are saved by human institutions like the United Nations and World Courts, etc…

The Baha’i faith was started in the mid-19th century by a Muslim man with human parents . He had no holes in his hands or his feet, nor any wound in his side. He did not give his life for the world. He is not the Paschal Lamb. And he did not rise from the dead, rather his body has long since decayed in the ground and we can visit his grave site. He will arise, to his own dismay, when the second coming actually occurs, however he will be subject to judgment along with the rest of us.

One who claims to be the second coming of Christ is an impostor, whether through intent or delusion, and we have been warned.

We have many areas in which we can work together for the betterment of this world. But we, as Christians, can never compromise the Truth found in God’s only Word, Jesus Christ. We seek no one else. We wait to meet him face to face in his heavenly kingdom.

I’ve come to similar conclusions. But everyone must make up their own minds, and ultimately with God’s help we can be led to the gifts of faith and discernment.

 

[Jcc1960]

I’ve come to similar conclusions. But everyone must make up their own minds, and ultimately with God’s help we can be led to the gifts of faith and discernment.

I would certainly agree with this, it is only with God’s grace through the Holy Spirit that we receive the gift of faith. This applies to faith in any religion.

 

[arthra]

Steve wrote:

“The Baha’i faith was started in the mid-19th century by a Muslim man with human parents . He had no holes in his hands or his feet, nor any wound in his side. He did not give his life for the world. He is not the Paschal Lamb. And he did not rise from the dead, rather his body has long since decayed in the ground and we can visit his grave site. He will arise, to his own dismay, when the second coming actually occurs, however he will be subject to judgment along with the rest of us.”

Actuallly the Baha’i Faith started on May23rd 1844/1260 AH with the declaration of the Bab in Shiraz Iran that He was the Promised One. His name was Siyyid Ali Muhammad and in our belief He fulfilled the prophecies of the Return of the Twelfth Imam and expected Qa’im…also the Return of Christ… His ministry lasted about six years from around thirty to thirty six years of age…

It was estimated that about twenty thousand of His followers were martyred. The Bab Whose title means the Gate spoke of Him Whom God should make manifest… After imprisonment and humiliation He was brought before a court and He was accused of being apostate to ISlam. He was sentenced to death… The Bab and a disciple who wanted to die with Him were fastened to a pillar in the barracks square of Tabriz…Six hundred riflemen fired three volleys and the ropes that suspended the Bab and His disciple were severed and both were untouched.

Baha’u’llah (“Glory of God”) was a noble and His father was a vizir for the area around Nur/Mazendaran south of the Caspian Sea. Baha’u’llah renounced His courtly opportunities and joined the followers of the Bab. His title derived from the Bab… After the Bab was executed in 1850 a few years later in 1853 Baha’u’llah Himself was imprisoned for four months and galling weight of chains left impressions on His body for life… An attempt was made to poison while imprisoned but failed.

While in Baghdad revealed the Kitab-i-Iqan or Book of Certitude which dealt with interpretations of the Qur’an and the Bible.

He was then exiled to Baghdad and later summoned by the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire to Istanbul…

It was on leaving Baghdad that Baha’u’llah announced that He was Him Whom God would make manifest promised by the Bab…

Most of the Babi community recognized Baha’u’llah as Him Whom God would make manifest promised by the Bab.

From Istanbul to Edirne Baha’u’llah was exiled and placed under house arrest… Around 1868 Baha’u’llah was exiled to Akka and imprisoned in the prison fortress there for years by the Sultan.

bahaullah.org/akka/arrival-seagate

While in Akka and Edirne, Baha’u’llah addressed the rulers of the day and counseled them to form a world parliament and an international court of arbitration.

One of the only Westerners who personally met Baha’u’llah was a British scholar E.G. Browne and his assessment of Baha’u’llah follows:

“The face of him on whom I gazed I can never forget, though I cannot describe it. Those piercing eyes seemed to read one’s very soul; power and authority sat on that ample brow…No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain!”

(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 6)

Perhaps the above will give you a small thumbnail sketch about both the Bab and Baha’u’llah…

 

[happyme]

After reading and participating in 2000 posts on this subject, my conclusion is that the Baha’i religion is a religion of compromise where unity is seen as the supreme good, at the expense, however, of the truth.

If I may respond here in red as I find it easier to do, sorry not great on the computer. Now Steve with all due respect to you, I feel you are having a problem understanding the Baha’i answers that you have been given in as you say over 2000 posts.

A Muslim cannot accept either the crucifixion or the resurrection of Jesus; the very heart of Christianity. A Christian cannot accept any faith tradition that proposes the need for anyone in addition to Christ, especially one like Muhammad who directly rejects Christ’s saving work. Yet we are to come together under Baha’u’llah, somehow setting these foundational doctrinal differences aside for the sake of unity.

Now you say a Muslim can’t accept either the crucifixion or the resurrection of Jesus, now I would humbly say that Muslims are as diverse in understanding certain verses in their writings as Christians are in theirs. Of course the Baha’i understanding of these two things from the Quran’s perspective has been given to you. I do not understand you saying that Muhammad rejects Christs saving work? I do not believe this comment. As for unity this is God’s message for this day, and He does as He Wills. Of course you may believe or disbelieve in this new message.

Inherent within the Baha’i faith tradition is the assertion that none of the major religions of the world have ever really understood the truth of their own prophets. It is a type of universal Protestantism in which they have borrowed from nearly all religions of the world while simultaneously rejecting the core beliefs of each.

I do not think that it is correct to say that none of the major religions have ever really understood the truth of their own prophets, we only quote the Words of the prophets who have come since, and in reading of the comments of past prophets shows a continuation of this theme of straying from the path of God. So is completely different from Protestantism as you declare, we only quote the Words of the Prophet of God, these are not our ideas.

A Christian considering the Baha’i faith would be considering the rejection of the saving power of Christ, the one, true Word of God, in favor of the promise of an earthly utopia. It is a pseudo-messianism, if you will, in which we are saved by human institutions like the United Nations and World Courts, etc…

Again I do not understand how you can say this, that the Baha’i Faith rejects the saving power of Christ in a promise of an earthly utopia. This claim is totally untrue, one only has to read of the very many comments of Baha’u’llah concerning Jesus to out such an idea to rest. Now what do you mean by an earthly utopia? Do you not believe in the Words of Christ when He says in the Lords pray " 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. King James Bible : Matthew And who was to bring God’s government upon His shoulders to the earth?

The Baha’i faith was started in the mid-19th century by a Muslim man with human parents . He had no holes in his hands or his feet, nor any wound in his side. He did not give his life for the world. He is not the Paschal Lamb. And he did not rise from the dead, rather his body has long since decayed in the ground and we can visit his grave site. He will arise, to his own dismay, when the second coming actually occurs, however he will be subject to judgment along with the rest of us.

We have also spoken at length about the birth of Christ, in complete agreement with the Bible. That Baha’u’llah did not have the same birth as Jesus what does this prove, certainly not that He did not come down from heaven as all the other Messengers of God has come. We have also explained that if the birth of Jesus is the only example of God sent messenger then what of Adam who had no earthly mother? He must then be greater than Jesus, but of course even we Baha’is do not believe this argument.And as far as suffering goes the writings of the Baha’i faith are full of the suffering of The Bab, Baha’u’llah and all the thousands of followers who gladly gave their lives for the truth.

One who claims to be the second coming of Christ is an impostor, whether through intent or delusion, and we have been warned.

Yes you have been warned in the Bible, of false prophets, but you tend to want to throw the real out with the false, Jesus even warned about that by telling you how to choose the true from the false. Now that you do not wish to consider the possibility of further messengers from God, this is OK I will not wish to argue with you, I wish you well, and peace and loving regards to you. As you say it is possible hopefully to work shoulder to shoulder in helping advance the betterment of the world, to help bring about peace and see an end to war, to help and uplift those who suffer and are in need. I pray we can walk hand in hand as friends in such an enterprise.

We have many areas in which we can work together for the betterment of this world. But we, as Christians, can never compromise the Truth found in God’s only Word, Jesus Christ. We seek no one else. We wait to meet him face to face in his heavenly kingdom.

 

[daler]

You can maintain a belief in Christ, but that doesn’t mean one is still a Christian. What the Baha’i’s believe about Christ is very different from say what Orthodox Christians, Roman Catholics, or Protestants believe. Therefore in another sense, you have converted… because you are no longer what you were.

Although I understand the point of… “One cannot be a Baha’i without acknowledging Muhammad, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster.” as I believe someone even of Jewish background was inquiring Abdu’l Baha once about becoming Baha’i, but didn’t care for Jesus. Abdul told him that he must come to terms with Jesus too… just as those from a Christian background must come to terms with how they see Muhammad, whom they once regarded as false.

I think that it would be fair to say that many Christians who have followed Christ believe that it is He Who has led them to recognize Baha’u’llah as the One foretold by Him in the verse:

“There are yet many things I have to say unto you, but ye cannot bare it now. Howbeit, when He, the Spirit of Truth is come, He will guide you into all truth.”

I would identify myself as a Christian who was guided by the Holy Spirit of Christ Himself, which led me to investigate the Baha’i Faith. Only upon my own independent investigation did I become a Baha’i, and state that while certain literal understandings of the Bible have changed in light of what Baha’u’llah teaches, the essential truths have not.

A very important Tablet addressed to Christians by Baha’u’llah is found in the following link, if intersted:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-3.html

 

[tonyfish58]

SteveVH Thank you for you frank discussion. I would like to add a thought re one of your comments.

One who claims to be the second coming of Christ is an impostor, whether through intent or delusion, and we have been warned.

Have we not also been told how to know the True Prophet? There are many, here are but a few…

Deuteronomy 18:21-22, “And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”

Numbers 12:6, “And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.”

Jeremiah 28:9, "The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him

1 John 4:1-3, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

Matthew 7:15-20, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

SteveVH Thank you for you frank discussion. I would like to add a thought re one of your comments.

Have we not also been told how to know the True Prophet? There are many, here are but a few…

Deuteronomy 18:21-22, “And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”

Numbers 12:6, “And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.”

Jeremiah 28:9, "The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him

1 John 4:1-3, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

Matthew 7:15-20, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

Regards Tony

Thankyou for these Tony. Very apt

I just wish to emphasise the following:

“Ye shall know THEM by their fruits”

“EVERY spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God”

These capitalised words, from my understanding (which I humbly present for your deliberation) absolutely imply that there will be SEVERAL Prophets after Jesus.

The Father’s Covenant with humanity is that He will never leave mankind without guidance…

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

I would certainly agree with this, it is only with God’s grace through the Holy Spirit that we receive the gift of faith. This applies to faith in any religion.

Do you agree with this verse from the Quran?:

“They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.” Qur’an, sura 5 (Al-Ma’ida), ayat 73

Do you agree that since I believe in the Blessed Trinity, that a grievous penalty will befall me?

 

[Servant19]

Do you agree with this verse from the Quran?:

“They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.” Qur’an, sura 5 (Al-Ma’ida), ayat 73

Do you agree that since I believe in the Blessed Trinity, that a grievous penalty will befall me?

Do you believe that the Father and the Son are of one and the same essence?

 

[arthra]

we had this discussion earlier on previous threads and it comes up of course because of the past issues around the nature of God and so it’s to be expected.

In a discourse in Paris around 1911 Abdul-Baha spoke about the issue in the following way:

If two individuals dispute about religion both are wrong. The Protestants and Catholics, the Muslims and Christians war over religion. The Nestorians claim that Christ was merely a slave, a man like the rest, but God put his spirit upon him. The Catholics say that he was one of the persons of the trinity. Both are wrong."

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 84

What He is saying in my view is that fighting about religion…arguing and disputing is actually in itself destructive… Among Baha’is you will hardly hear any of these arguments about the trinity going on…

In another place Abdul-Baha speaks again about the trinity… Note how He begins:

***The Divine Reality, which is purified and sanctified from the understanding of human beings **and which can never be imagined by the people of wisdom and of intelligence, is exempt from all conception. That Lordly Reality admits of no division; for division and multiplicity are properties of creatures which are contingent existences, and not accidents which happen to the self-existent.

**The Divine Reality is sanctified from singleness, then how much more from plurality. **The descent of that Lordly Reality into conditions and degrees would be equivalent to imperfection and contrary to perfection, and is, therefore, absolutely impossible. It perpetually has been, and is, in the exaltation of holiness and sanctity. All that is mentioned of the Manifestations and Dawning-places of God signifies the divine reflection, and not a descent into the conditions of existence
*
(Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 112)

Later in His discourse He says:

*The epitome of the discourse is that the Reality of Christ was a clear mirror, and the Sun of Reality – that is to say, the Essence of Oneness, with its infinite perfections and attributes – became visible in the mirror. The meaning is not that the Sun, which is the Essence of the Divinity, became divided and multiplied – for the Sun is one – but it appeared in the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the Sun is visible and manifest in this mirror.

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which becomes visible and evident in the Reality of Christ. The Sonship station is the heart of Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the station of the spirit of Christ. Hence it has become certain and proved that the Essence of Divinity is absolutely unique and has no equal, no likeness, no equivalent. 115

This is the signification of the Three Persons of the Trinity.*

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 113

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

we had this discussion earlier on previous threads and it comes up of course because of the past issues around the nature of God and so it’s to be expected.

In a discourse in Paris around 1911 Abdul-Baha spoke about the issue in the following way:

If two individuals dispute about religion both are wrong. The Protestants and Catholics, the Muslims and Christians war over religion. The Nestorians claim that Christ was merely a slave, a man like the rest, but God put his spirit upon him. The Catholics say that he was one of the persons of the trinity. Both are wrong."

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 84

What He is saying in my view is that fighting about religion…arguing and disputing is actually in itself destructive… Among Baha’is you will hardly hear any of these arguments about the trinity going on…

I’ll take this to mean that the Baha’i Faith teaches that the Quran is wrong in it’s teaching since the Quran teaches that the Christian understanding is wrong…therefore Muslims dispute the Christian meaning…and therefore since these two religions dispute who God is, they are both wrong.

I am under the impression that the Baha’i Faith accepted the Quran as part of their Scripture. Can there be errors regarding faith in the Scripture according to Baha’i Faith?

 

[happyme]

I’ll take this to mean that the Baha’i Faith teaches that the Quran is wrong in it’s teaching since the Quran teaches that the Christian understanding is wrong…therefore Muslims dispute the Christian meaning…and therefore since these two religions dispute who God is, they are both wrong.

I am under the impression that the Baha’i Faith accepted the Quran as part of their Scripture. Can there be errors regarding faith in the Scripture according to Baha’i Faith?

I would like to try and clarify this idea that some people put forward about corruption of the Holy text.

Quote:- . . . .a few untutored holy Men hath been given the mastery of human learning, so that the malevolent (Page 89) opposer may cease to contend that a certain verse doth indicate corruption" of the text, and insinuate that We, through lack of knowledge, have made mention of such things. Moreover, most of the verses that indicate corruption" of the text have been revealed with reference to the Jewish people, were ye to explore the isles of Qur’anic Revelation.
We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! Baha’u’llah : The Kitab-i-Iqan

When we continue to study what has been revealed regarding corruption of text, my understanding is that this refers to interpretation, not that the text has been altered.

And no dear friend if you meditate and read what Arthra posted he is not saying that the Quran is wrong.

Peace and love to you

 

[SteveVH]

happyme:
When you respond to a post by including your comments within the quote to which you are responding you make it very difficult to respond in turn. Everything disappears. This post is a response to Post #28. See what I mean?

 

[Lochias]

After reading and participating in 2000 posts on this subject, my conclusion is that the Baha’i religion is a religion of compromise where unity is seen as the supreme good, at the expense, however, of the truth.

A Muslim cannot accept either the crucifixion or the resurrection of Jesus; the very heart of Christianity. A Christian cannot accept any faith tradition that proposes the need for anyone in addition to Christ, especially one like Muhammad who directly rejects Christ’s saving work. Yet we are to come together under Baha’u’llah, somehow setting these foundational doctrinal differences aside for the sake of unity.

Inherent within the Baha’i faith tradition is the assertion that none of the major religions of the world have ever really understood the truth of their own prophets. It is a type of universal Protestantism in which they have borrowed from nearly all religions of the world while simultaneously rejecting the core beliefs of each.

A Christian considering the Baha’i faith would be considering the rejection of the saving power of Christ, the one, true Word of God, in favor of the promise of an earthly utopia. It is a pseudo-messianism, if you will, in which we are saved by human institutions like the United Nations and World Courts, etc…

The Baha’i faith was started in the mid-19th century by a Muslim man with human parents . He had no holes in his hands or his feet, nor any wound in his side. He did not give his life for the world. He is not the Paschal Lamb. And he did not rise from the dead, rather his body has long since decayed in the ground and we can visit his grave site. He will arise, to his own dismay, when the second coming actually occurs, however he will be subject to judgment along with the rest of us.

One who claims to be the second coming of Christ is an impostor, whether through intent or delusion, and we have been warned.

We have many areas in which we can work together for the betterment of this world. But we, as Christians, can never compromise the Truth found in God’s only Word, Jesus Christ. We seek no one else. We wait to meet him face to face in his heavenly kingdom.

Nailed it in one. We do not have the authority to go against what has been taught as Truth, and we need to remember that. Truth is freedom, and we are to live as people who are free to serve God as He has instructed us, through the teachings and deposit of Truth in the Catholic Church. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. No other religion can claim that, nor will they ever.

We are free in the Truth. Live it.

 

[SteveVH]

SteveVH Thank you for you frank discussion. I would like to add a thought re one of your comments.

Have we not also been told how to know the True Prophet? There are many, here are but a few…

Deuteronomy 18:21-22, “And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”

Numbers 12:6, “And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.”

Jeremiah 28:9, "The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him

1 John 4:1-3, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

Matthew 7:15-20, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

Regards Tony

"In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe." (Hebrews 1:1-2)

Christ has come. He is the final, definitive Word of God. He is the One of whom the prophets spoke. We are to look no further.

 

[SteveVH]

I’ll take this to mean that the Baha’i Faith teaches that the Quran is wrong in it’s teaching since the Quran teaches that the Christian understanding is wrong…therefore Muslims dispute the Christian meaning…and therefore since these two religions dispute who God is, they are both wrong.

I am under the impression that the Baha’i Faith accepted the Quran as part of their Scripture. Can there be errors regarding faith in the Scripture according to Baha’i Faith?

I think what you will find is that they will claim there are no errors in either the Bible or the Quran, it is, rather, the understanding of the meaning of these texts that is in error.

For example, they deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus (in line with Islam) and claim that he was resurrected, but only spiritually. The assumption is that the two contradictory texts are not contradictory at all, only our understanding is contradictory. Of course one must then ignore the fact that the resurrected Jesus showed his disciples the wounds in his hands and feet and side and ate food. They have never addressed this problem head on.

I have no desire to continue going back and forth on these specific issues. I am just using this as an example.